Questions about timing

chemteacher101
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:57 pm

Re: Questions about timing

Post by chemteacher101 »

For MYP examiner positions, it has changed a bit. It's not as it used to be with your coordinator first having to recommend you. But experience is required and they expect two referees including your coordinator (so the basic change is people can apply by themselves).

For DP, it's not a requirement to have experience as a DP teacher, as far as I know. Some examiners are simply professionals in whatever field they work on.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10421
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames Pirate

No, I disagree with you when your wrong, such as now because youre wrong. Im going to disagree with you when youre wrong.
Its an option, just not one with any meaningful value. Its not likely to help more than taking a workshop course. A workshop course will at least meet the PD requirements for training, there is no such waiver, or exemption for being an examiner. It is compensated, there is a training component to it (the training doesnt meet the PD requirements either).
Not a mythical JP equestrian position, you just didnt agree with the requirements, and nobody consulted with you on that position. You were wrong then just as you are now.
Is being an examiner something, yes, but that something only matters in a pool of applicants who have nothing, and being an examiner has nothing to do with teaching a subject in which case a workshop actually does.

@Sid

Historically that was true, but they changed it back after ESS was released (that was a long time ago). You no longer need the recommendation of your IB Coordinator, though you can use one for one of your references. You need a degree in the subject and one year of teaching the subject to an appropriate age group, the experience need not be in an IB program just comparable age group and subject. You need two references though they need not be from those holding IB roles in an IS, they need to be in executive and senior leadership (HOS, and then AP/VP/DP or similar).
The IB started outgrowing its pool of examiners, more students but fewer IB ITs wanting to mark/grade for the pittance and the experience wasnt worth much in recruiting. Once they went outside the IB for examiners being an examiner became even less valuable, it just wasnt the insider role it used to be, since no depth of IBness was any longer required.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Questions about timing

Post by Thames Pirate »

Those two things are, surprisingly, no longer required. While I understand the need to grow your pool of examiners, I also found it weird that it was so open. That said, it can work to a candidate's advantage in a case like this as the graders ARE still the ones with insider information (already familiar with the IBIS system, the expectations of the assessments, and the subject reports, for example). A grader may not be as familiar with the ATLs or Learner Profile, but that is often jargon for things good teachers are doing anyway. An IB teacher is just a (hopefully good) teacher who has taught the assigned curriculum to prepare for the assigned assessments. All the philosophical stuff is what a good teacher with AP experience is hopefully mostly doing; the rest is simply frame working and jargon, and let's face it--the assessments are what is different and requires some training.

The "how do I structure my course so my students score well" question is what an experienced IB teacher already can answer, while an AP teacher can answer the question for AP. Both would have content knowledge and pedagogical experience, and a good teacher would already help students become inquirers, risk-takers, etc. Both would come from a place of developing critical thinking skills while still helping kids learnt he nuts and bolts of passing the exam in question. So it is familiarity with the exam in question that is a big part of the "how do I structure my course." Sure, it isn't the same thing as teaching the course and knowing how many of the literary works need to be in translation or that an IA should address one of several core concepts, but ultimately it means you as an AP teacher know what will be asked of students in the IB.

So if you can become a grader, it can help, as sid said. If you can't, you can still familiarise yourself with the overall program and with the subject guide for your subject (for free!) so you can address it in your application / interview. And you can always take the online course, which may or may not actually familiarise you with the program, but gives you a nice piece of paper. Or you can do all three. Or none. Completely up to you. If I had to pick one of the three, I would probably pick the grading.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10421
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames Pirate

No they arent.
Being an IB examiner use to be a title of recognition that the ITs knowledge and experience of IBness was broad and deep enough that their IS and the IB considered them worthy of being an examiner. Its not anymore. Its just a poorly comped side hustle. You dont need to know anything about the IB or even what the IB is to be an examiner anymore.
They dont have insider information. Marking schemes arent available to examiners until after the exam, and then the examiner has to actually be appointed as an examiner to read for that marking period. Otherwise the "what do my students need to know to perform well on the exam" is publicly available.
All of that jargon, philosophy and framework is the same bag of teaching stuff that ISs want X years of IB experience for or you can leave the line now, that being an examiner means all oz nothing. Its not X years of IB teaching experience or X years of examiner experience its just the X years of IB teaching experience.
Reiterating again, being an examiner doesnt have value in recruiting.
shadowjack
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Questions about timing

Post by shadowjack »

Being an examiner IS a positive in interviews at solid schools. It means you have a greater understanding of what the fundamental elements of good papers are and thus the ability to impart that to your students.
secondplace
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Questions about timing

Post by secondplace »

Punctuation helps in recruitment.

Streamofconsciousnessramblingdoesnt...

D. ont B.e LIKE. @psyguy but., do...punc.tuat.e

xx
PsyGuy
Posts: 10421
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@SJ

Its a positive in the sense its not a negative, but its not worth anything in terms of value between candidates. IB experience in the classroom matters, that has marketable utility. Having an ESOL certificate is a positive, it doesnt have marketable utility. There are many things that are positives that arent worth anything.
secondplace
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Questions about timing

Post by secondplace »

I think I'm just going to tidy up your posts from now on:

@SJ

It's a positive in the sense it's not a negative, but it's not worth anything in terms of value between candidates. IB experience in the classroom matters, and that has marketable utility. Having an ESOL certificate is a positive, it doesn't have marketable utility. There are many things that are positives that aren't worth anything.
Simbenbin
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:33 pm

Re: Questions about timing

Post by Simbenbin »

Despite some of the animus among posters here, this has actually been pretty helpful. I've graded APUSH exams a few times, and at least from my perspective it helped make me a (slightly) better AP teacher. I've also been on plenty of hiring committees (none for IB, of course) and if I knew we were hiring for an AP teacher, it would be nice if we had someone who taught AP - but that would not be the primary consideration. We'd want someone who clearly knows the subject and is a solid educator. Experience with AP would help, for sure - but it wouldn't be the deciding factor. Grading AP exams would, I think, be seen as a plus, but also not a truly significant factor.

Maybe hiring for international teaching is different?

Either way, it's pretty easy to familiarize myself with IB protocols and ideology in advance of any active job hunting. Grading AP exams was kind of mind numbing, and not very remunerative, so I admit I'd be hesitant to do IB grading.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10421
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Simbenbin

AP isnt anywhere near as cultish as IB can get. On one end of the IB its just some documents and a different list of objectives, and the Is isnt all that different from any other IS except with so IB Learner Profile posters. The other sie of that spectrum it looks a lot more like a religion. In AP the difference between a general subject matter teacher at SLL and AP at SLL is can you follow this curriculum and hit these assessed marks. There are IB ISs that will not let you even up to the recruiter if you dont have X years of IB experience in a classroom (and no IB examiner experience doesnt count), cant answer yes and its thank you, you can step out of line. Its no different for direct applications, dont have X years experience and your application gets screened out, it doesnt matter what your other experience and expertise is.

Knowing the jargon and terminology and being able to spin your experience and expertise is great and its a viable approach in an interview or in composing a resume but you have to get in the room to make that pitch and there can be some pretty high and immovable barriers to getting in the room.
jschott
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Questions about timing

Post by jschott »

Simbenbin wrote:
> I'm a veteran teacher thinking about teaching internationally, but not
> until the 24-25 school year. I know that's a long way from now - but I'm a
> planner.
>
> Is there anything I can or should be doing to prepare before the hiring
> begins in late 2023?

> Thanks for any advice.

That's not too far to plan ahead. The one piece of advice I would give is actually to visit some places where you are considering teaching or applying. Hopefully school will be just one part of your life, no matter where you end up, so actually enjoying the location should factor into your decision. When you visit, you might also consider visiting a school or two, meeting up with a principal.

I actually got the best teaching job I ever had when I was walking back home in Berlin one day after having applied to a non-teaching job. I passed this school that looked interesting, and I just walked in. It was in-between classes, so the place seemed chaotic, but the HS principal spied me from his cubbyhole of an office, asked me if he could help me, and then proceeded to interview me on the spot. He then took me to meet other principals. I didn't get a job there that year, but after a contract at a university was coming to an end, I gave this principal a call and asked whether he had anything available, and he said, "yes, you're hired." Best teaching conditions I ever experienced, and a year later, I had tenure.

But I've ruled other schools in or out by visiting the areas in which they're located while on vacation. Helps a lot, and you have some time.

I like having some control over where I work. There's nothing so inherently marvelous about teaching internationally that one should leave one's fate up to whichever school offers a job. There are plenty of lousy schools out there--stay away from the for-profit ones, for example--so do your best to collect as much information first-hand as you can. That's my take, anyway.
Last edited by jschott on Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Questions about timing

Post by Heliotrope »

jschott wrote:
> But I've ruled other schools in or out by visiting the areas in which they're located
> while on vacation. Helps a lot, and you have some time.

Yeah, I do this as well nowadays.
My last four or five holiday trips have all included at least one city with a good international school, and while there I always go to the area where the school is located to see what it'd be like to live there. My current school is in a city I've visited on one of these trips.
jschott
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Questions about timing

Post by jschott »

Heliotrope wrote:
> jschott wrote:
> > But I've ruled other schools in or out by visiting the areas in which they're
> located
> > while on vacation. Helps a lot, and you have some time.
>
> Yeah, I do this as well nowadays.
> My last four or five holiday trips have all included at least one city with a good
> international school, and while there I always go to the area where the school is
> located to see what it'd be like to live there. My current school is in a city I've
> visited on one of these trips.

Yes, and having a goal or two on vacation is actually fun, I think.
Post Reply