Vaccination and other issues.

Thames Pirate
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by Thames Pirate »

I have the job I want and am unlikely to be looking in the near future or to need a leg up. But think what you want if it makes it easier for you to write off the actual substance of what I am saying. Or take umbrage at the language I used so you can ignore the substance of what I said. Whatever helps you sleep, I guess. You are entitled to feel what you want.

I was willing to be patient to a point as people wanted to wait a few months or wanted a few more published studies. We're there now. There is, for almost all of us, no rational reason not to get vaccinated. There is only an emotional one (people being "unsure" or "feeling unsafe" or what have you).

I get that. I do. People are entitled to their emotions, and those emotions are valid. But your (generic you) emotions lead to actions (or inactions) which have consequences for the rest of us. There is (for the overwhelming majority of us) only an emotional reason not to get vaccinated. When that emotional reasoning causes harm to others, you should expect pushback. Since refusing vaccination causes continued risk to those who cannot actually get vaccinated--particularly many of our students--it is no longer a matter of personal choice, but one of collective action. The international school community has opted for collective action in requiring vaccines. Our choices are to put collective and individual well being first or to stick to some arbitrary principle based on emotions over science. If that's your choice, you are within your rights to refuse vaccination and to refuse to provide required information. But choices have consequences.
angelica1981
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:28 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by angelica1981 »

marieh wrote:
> angelica1981 wrote:
> > > many other highly insecure and feeble-minded people. So while she calls
> others
> > > selfish and foul names (real classy!), I say it takes one to know one.
>
> This is the first statement you've made I've agreed with. I'm glad you were able to
> identify another one of your kind.

Um, I didn't write that.
Specs
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:14 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by Specs »

@shawanda
I do understand a lot of what you are saying but you are also mighty judgemental about those who offer an alternative view. There are some interesting points being made both sides and you are making this very personal.
I DID get an AIDS test and a chest x ray in HK and China in the years gone by. Would I now , nope. Because it was discrimination against mainlanders and homosexuals and nothing, I suspect to do with controlling any diseases. I was naive and I since know of four HIV teachers who are non symptomatic, that this would affect. I feel ashamed I did put up with it back then.
I am vaxxed and am from a country that never HAS bought into the zero covid cases theory. It wanted herd immunity. It messed up big style and the vaccine, it seemed, helped bring some normality back. They are still not aiming for perfection and it seems just the old and vulnerable will continue with boosters. Most people I know have had covid mildly. So what.
I do believe the science and I do believe without the vaccine and the majority taking it, the economy would be dead and people would have been dying in the streets. I am not going to quibble with the minority who are concerned or who cannot get vaxxed for health issues. I just cannot hack the outright fake news and conspiracy theories.
So far my country only insists on care home workers to be vaxxed, in a reactionary attempt to cover up their own huge errors at the start of the pandemic.
I suspect in an already tough international market, schools are using the vaccine to weedle people out. Along with single parents, older staff and those with pre-existing medical conditions. If you could be a dead weight in any form, they won't want you. Some schools have always done it and always will.
Specs
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:14 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by Specs »

> I suspect in an already tough international market, schools are using the
> vaccine to weedle people out. Along with single parents, older staff and
> those with pre-existing medical conditions. If you could be a dead weight
> in any form, they won't want you. Some schools have always done it and
> always will.

Just to be clear. I do not think you are a dead weight if you are any of the above! Just normal average people.
marieh
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by marieh »

angelica1981 wrote:
> marieh wrote:
> > angelica1981 wrote:
> > > > many other highly insecure and feeble-minded people. So while she
> calls
> > others
> > > > selfish and foul names (real classy!), I say it takes one to know one.
> >
> > This is the first statement you've made I've agreed with. I'm glad you were able
> to
> > identify another one of your kind.
>
> Um, I didn't write that.
I am so, so very sorry. I had to edit the quote and got the name wrong. It should have been shawanda. Please forgive me!
shawanda
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by shawanda »

Oh by the way, Search doesn't even vet the responses the schools give to the question, "As per government regulations, does your school require teachers to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19?" It shouldn't be up to the schools to fill that out. So many schools just lie and assume you are too far away for it to matter that you know they lie. Search could figure this out easily and report it accurately but Search lets schools self-report and there are plenty of schools IN THE SAME COUNTRY that give different answers. Clowns. Great way to discern low down dirty lying school admins vs. the just generally bad ones. It's all a scam. Water does seek its own level.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by Heliotrope »

shawanda wrote:
> Oh by the way, Search doesn't even vet the responses the schools give to
> the question, "As per government regulations, does your school require
> teachers to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19?" It shouldn't be up to
> the schools to fill that out. So many schools just lie and assume you are
> too far away for it to matter that you know they lie. Search could figure
> this out easily and report it accurately but Search lets schools
> self-report and there are plenty of schools IN THE SAME COUNTRY that give
> different answers. Clowns. Great way to discern low down dirty lying school
> admins vs. the just generally bad ones. It's all a scam. Water does seek
> its own level.

You're so upbeat!

Basically everything on the Search profiles is self-reported by the school, and nothing is vetted as far as I know. So this makes perfect sense.

And in this case, does it really matter?
A school that lies about the 'As per government regulations'-part of that question and says 'Yes' is just a school that requires teachers to be fully vaccinated, and my guess is that they're not trying to lie but just want to make clear that they will only consider vaccinated candidates. So they will not hire you anyway, even if the government regulations would allowed them to.
If you're unvaccinated, this saves you from spending time on needlessly researching the school and writing a tailored cover letter, and you can redirect your efforts towards applying to schools that will still consider unvaccinated candidates.
sid
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by sid »

Search indeed does not vet schools' answers to just about anything. Once a school passes the rigorous process needed to use Search to recruit, after that it's mostly trust as schools update their profiles annually. Similar to how Search does not vet applicants' info either - it's trust. In both cases, Search will respond if someone reports an inaccuracy, but it's about trust first.
As for schools giving different answers in the same country, that can be accurate too. Some bigger countries, federations in particular, let regions/states make different decisions. Others have different requirements for different regions based on Covid numbers, and still others have different regulations for different types of schools - there may be public schools, private schools, magnet schools, international schools, tutoring centers, etc in the same city, all under different laws.

More interesting to me at the moment is how strongly shawanda feels about the ethics of these questions and practices related to vaccines. Given all this individual has said so far, about how egregious it all is, I wonder if shawanda's ethics suggest that they should not deal with Search at all, nor with any school which asks any questions about vaccines. Ethics are real, with real implications for how people should behave. If one finds a truly abhorrent practice, ethics generally require that one refuses to have any dealings with the perpetrator, possibly after first alerting them to the issue and seeing if they correct their behavior. One should certainly not gain any benefit through an alliance with such an organization, such as getting a job. Nor should one give benefits to such an organization, such as by paying a fee.
shadowjack
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by shadowjack »

sid wrote:
>One should certainly not
> gain any benefit through an alliance with such an organization, such as
> getting a job. Nor should one give benefits to such an organization, such
> as by paying a fee.

Can I get my money back from Search? Asking for a friend.

;-)
PsyGuy
Posts: 10421
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

SAs vetting process is not so rigorous, there have been more than a few ISs that SA has and does represent that are just poo ISs.

There can be substantial variations between ISs in the same country, region, even locally, and its pretty common for example comparing old school embassy ISs to a new a third tier IS that doesnt have relationships or political coin to get things done. Thus, vastly differing self reports between ISs may very well be accurate.
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