Vaccination and other issues.

Spawnboy99
Posts: 119
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 pm

Vaccination and other issues.

Post by Spawnboy99 »

Hi,

Just like to know has anyone that has recently started to apply for jobs started to see a different approach coming from the school HR.

The following HR has asked me the follow just interested in other peoples findings. Not up for a debate.

1) To send your vaccination details
2) To ask to contact your references before an interview
3) Your expected salary
4) Digital copies of all academic records etc,\.
sciteach
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by sciteach »

The only one which I think is totally acceptable before an interview is getting permission to contact your references.

Any schools which asks for an expected pay amount of a big red flag for me. It really depends on the country and what amenities are offered.

Sending ALL OF THE OTHERS seems as a great way to steal information that makes up a lot of your identity
chemteacher101
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:57 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by chemteacher101 »

I've only been asked for expected salary s couple of times in over 15 years. Every single time it's been either a 3rd tier international school or a private IB school in Europe (the mediocre kind).

It's a red flag for me.

Digital copies of everything from the very beginning, only once, prior to a SA fair (a school in Qatar).

Vaccination details, so far not. But I see no reason why it's not going to become a pretty standard requirement.
buffalofan
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by buffalofan »

All this before an interview?

1) Ok I get it, if they can't process a visa without you being vaxxed. No reason to move forward if you are an anti-vaxxer.

2) If you are registered with any recruitment agency, they have the contact info already. Otherwise I'm not providing this before an interview.

3) Major red flag. I would reply back with "USD 250,000/year" and see what they say.

4) Red flag as this puts you at risk for identity theft. No way am I sending this prior to interview.
unsure
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by unsure »

Like others, I'd be happy with 1 and 2.

3 is a red flag.

Saying that, if they went through Search Associates, they'd have access to 2 and 4 anyway.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10419
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

PsyGuy

Post by PsyGuy »

I get number 1, and its going to if i hasnt already become more common and standard practice. As prior contributors have stated if you need proof of vaccination to get a visa/permit and the IT isnt than there isnt much reason to progress further into the application process.

Number 2 is common actually, especially with ISs and/or ITs that arent repped by premium agencies. Just because an IS asks for them doesnt mean the IT has to, nor does it mean the IS wont progress further with a candidate. The issue is competition if an IS has few options they may be much more open to looking at references after the interview. An IS with a healthy applicant pool can probably afford to bin applicants who wont provide references before the interview.

Number 3 would be a major red flag (danger, danger), though again while its less likely youd want to work for/with an IS that insists on this beforehand and dismiss them outright there are ISs, a lot of them, that simply cant afford what too many ITs (most of them entering IE for the first time) expect ITs make in a given region and by definition half of those IS will pay less than average. If an ITs salary expectations arent aligned with the ISs salary for the position there isnt much reason to progress with the candidate. Even ISs that post for the specific position what the salary range is will get candidates at interview who think that their resume is worth X amount more, and more often than not that more isnt realistic or even doable. On the other side of the spectrum you dont know if this is an IS with a closed salary scale and they are hoping the can get an IT for less then they have budgeted for a position. Leaders are rarely disciplined for saving ownership coin.

For number 4 just what do you mean by "academic" records? If you mean copies/scans of degree scrolls and possibly transcripts. Scrolls is relatively common. An IS really needs to see that the degree has been conferred and that there really is a degree, further theres little (if anything) that is on the scroll that shouldnt already be on your resume. As for transcripts there is some legitimate need for an IS to know the course by course details for a course of study. Were credits earned at the institution sitting in a room with an instructor where the studnt earned a letter grade or are there a lot of courses with pass and/or credits for the course but no other grades (indicating transfer credit or possibly some form of course that wasnt academic? Whats the actual title of the major and the department that the major courses were taken in. Ive seen maths and science applicants with credentials in subjects they have little academic preparation in who repped their degrees and/or majors in a certain direction and then you look at the transcripts and find that their 'computer science' degree is actually web development or business information systems and they have very little coding and programing expertise. Likewise science ITs with an 'all subject science' credential who did a certificate program in massage therapy where this programs courses transferred as science courses and they really had very minimal classical science preparation that amounted to some biology courses no chemistry and no physics but the position was physical science (chemistry). There are a lot of US ITs who have credentials in subjects they obtained through passing a credentialing exam who have little or no academic preparation in the subject or their preparation was a single course as part of their general ed requirements. Likewise UK ITs that spin their QTS into subjects that are more a reach than they believe.
What is an IS (even a scammy one) going to gain from a transcript in terms of identity theft? If they want your birthday they are just going to request a copy of your passport, if your Uni uses SSNs as your ID and lists it on the transcript black it out or crop that edge of the transcript out. If they give you grief or inquire about it inform them that edge of the transcript contains personally identifiable information that could be used to facilitate identity theft (or better yet request your Uni substitute a different number to identify you by) and if they push on it give them a pass.
Illiane_Blues

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by Illiane_Blues »

Asking about your vaccination status makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I really dislike schools that bother my references before the interview.

Asking you your expected salary is usually the red flag everybody says it is.

Not sure why they would want to see digital copies of all academic records. Usually a CV will tell them what they need to know and I've never been asked for more than that before an interview, other than a question once to clarify something. It would concern me a little but I don't think that it's a huge deal.
MusicTravel30
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 8:52 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by MusicTravel30 »

What in the world is everyone talking about? Asking for the expected salary is very common in many fields, if not all.

What?

When interviews come to a close, I am, generally speaking, asked that. It is not at all a "red flag", lol.

On the other hand, bothering references BEFORE the interview, NO. If they are leaning towards making an offer after the interview(s), it is a common and expected last step.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10419
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@MusicTravel30

IE isnt one of those fields.

It isnt at the conclusion of an interview when the switch from interviewing to contract negotiations happens, yes thats when the 'what are your salary/comp' expectations is prudent and should be expected. Its way before that happens with an IS asking about the salary expectations or previous salary at the time of applicant or prior to an interview thats the red flag issue thats being discussed.
SaltySeaDog
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:52 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by SaltySeaDog »

Any IS that is asking your expected salary before offering a position is likely to be:

a) doing dodgy deals for people they like or really need to fill a certain position
b) are probably in China, as it's normal practice for local hires


Schools should have an open payscale based on qualifications and years of experience. If they don't then you have a 50-50 chance of getting shafted...
shawanda
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:47 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by shawanda »

The fact that Search is now asking for our vaccination status is grotesque.

Regardless of your vaccination status, we all should be outraged. The irony is that this happens under the guise of them supporting greater diversity and inclusion. International schools are some of the most systemically discriminatory institutions in society!

Search should have demonstrated leadership and told the schools, if you want that information, go get it yourselves. But Search, like so many once venerable institutions, is consumed by cultural rot and greed.

That is all!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10419
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@shawanda

No its not grotesque.

SA incorporated the item as part of their application due to the high demand from ISs that need that information, because they cant secure visas for ITs who arent vaccinated or securing one is much more difficult for an unvaccinated IT.

ISs are not inclusionary, nor anti discriminatory, and their discrimination and exclusionary practices are very much systematic. Water is also wet.

What was SA to do, make recruiting harder and more difficult and expensive for their clients (the ISs)? Thats usually not a good strategy, they are helping their clients with an issue that their clients are stuck with. No amount of complaining or protest from IE is going to change the various ministry requirements for a visa or work permit. Those ISs just wont have their applications approved.
ILMathTeachr
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by ILMathTeachr »

shawanda wrote:
> The fact that Search is now asking for our vaccination status is grotesque.
>[/snip]

Nice job, Shawanda. You made Psyguy the voice of reason and common sense!
:-D
sid
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by sid »

😂
I am almost afraid to ask, but I’ll be a risk taker.
Help me understand why asking the question is “grotesque” and why people should be “outraged”.
secondplace
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Vaccination and other issues.

Post by secondplace »

@shawanda

If you don't want to share such information then don't.

All of our choices and actions have consequences. The consequences of this might be not be able to take up new positions.

Your choice.
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