Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

EdwardTeach
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:17 am

Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by EdwardTeach »

Hi y'all,

I have a question that I keep getting very different answers to, depending on whom I ask. So I was hoping this place could provide me with some clarification.

Over the past several years I've had some on and off teaching experience, but recently I buckled down and obtained my TEFL (120 hr) certificate. I'm currently working on getting my TOEFL and CELTA as well, with the desired objective of being eligible to teach in Indonesia.

The main problem I keep running into is that most online sources state that a Bachelor's degree is absolutely mandatory. I did spend one year at University but never finished it. When asking locals (teachers, students, citizens) they often tell me that this isn't always a requirement and it's possible to get a teacher position without necessarily having a Bachelor's degree.

So my question is whether that's true or not. Am I able to obtain a position with just a TEFL, CELTA and TOEFL certificate? (maybe with additional certification?) Does it merely limit my options (I care very little about salary) or is it absolutely impossible?

Thanks in advance for any replies!


Edit:
I don't know whether this makes any sort of difference but I'm currently hovering around B1-B2 level in Bahasa Indonesia, while actively studying to reach A-levels.
chemteacher101
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:57 pm

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by chemteacher101 »

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think you might be in the wrong website/forum. What you seem to be referring to, is teaching English in Indonesia. Or at least that's what it sounds like from your profile. The vast VAST majority of teachers in "international schools" are teachers who have an actual career in teaching. That means yes, they do have a Bachelor's, and many others also have graduate degrees, professional qualifications (teaching licenses in some USA state, or QTS in England), etc... Please note that a TEFL certificate is nothing more than just a printed piece of paper; it is not an official qualification. Same applies to a CELTA... These are just useful for people who are not teachers to get jobs teaching English at language institutes and such.

If you are talking about working as an actual teacher, at an actual private international school, having them sponsor your work visa, I very highly doubt it. Would there maybe be some sort of strange exception to this in some hole-in-the-wall school with some dodgy head of school who hired a completely unqualified person to do a job and pulled some strings to get the visa done? Maybe, but it would be far far from the norm.
EdwardTeach
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:17 am

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by EdwardTeach »

Thanks for your reply, I indeed forgot to mention that my question is regarding teaching English as a second language, not a high-profile university teaching position.

Several of my friends and contacts have done similar things in other countries (e.g. China, Brazil etc) but for me the focus is on Indonesia. Since it doesn't seem to matter in what field you've graduated and just having any bachelor's degree will suffice, I was hoping there would be other qualifications that could make one eligible.
sciteach
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 am

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by sciteach »

Hi EdwardTeach,

I think you misunderstood the last post by the other poster.

Most of the posters here are international teachers. That means that most have a 4 year degree in teaching, multiple years teaching experience and certification in their home country. This is for positions teaching primary and secondary schools - not universities.

TEFL certifications are helpful at language schools - but have almost no use at international schools.

Onto your main question - to the best of my knowledge there was some controversies in Indonesia at least a half a decade ago which made all international schools remove the word "international" from their name. It also increased the university qualifications and years experience so no - you cannot legally work at a private or public school with no teaching qualifications and get legal visa sponsorship.

If there are jobs in language schools - I suggest you look for an ESL Teaching forum.
vincentchase
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:34 pm
Location: Between 1960-69

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by vincentchase »

Your current qualifications used to be enough to gain you an entry level position in a language school some 15-20 years ago. A lot has changed since then.

You are best to look at the job requirements of language schools to which you would be most suited. That being English First, TBI and Wall Street. However, government requirements have also been made more stringent, requiring a bachelors degree + TESOL certificate for these positions. Many of these businesses have also moved to hiring Indonesian citizens as teachers with the odd foreigner thrown into the mix.

Also keep in mind all of these businesses, as well as private and public schools are either temporarily closed or running remotely. So there be currently bang on zero opportunities for someone in your position.

As an aside, yes there still exists a dying breed of unqualified teachers without degrees that do teach without the proper visa (KITAS). It's usually with private Indonesian schools in the satellite cities such as Depok, Bekasi and Tangerang. They are the token foreigner that that pops in to teach English, whilst flying under the regulation radar. Somewhat akin to picking up pennies in front of a steamroller.
Asteger
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:53 am

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by Asteger »

Although I have ties to Indonesia, I cannot advise the original poster on his question except to say that it would be good simply to google the work visa requirements for English teaching jobs. I think job adverts will actually state requirements, too, so you can even go by these.

However, I would like to take issue with some the things chemteacher101 said regarding teachers and non-teachers, as he/she sees them.

I am certified/licensed as a teacher in 2 countries, have 3 post-graduate degrees in different fields, currently teach in an IB international school, and have years of experience both in mainstream and international schools and in the TESOL world. There are some supremely skilled and talented teachers in the latter field with skills that many in mainstream education might not even be able to appreciate because it would be beyond them. It is true that TESOL teachers will be looked down upon, and many may deserve it, but there are also real experts out there with much to offer.

I am sure that the majority of 'TEFL certs' out there are pretty much just pieces of paper as you say, but there is also excellent training. You lump the CELTA into this group, but I doubt you have this qualification. Though very much an introductory qualification whose prestige is exaggerated by people who only have the one qualification, I would not call this a 'piece of paper'. I did the RSA CTEFLA, the CELTA predecessor, years ago and much of what I do today I can still trave back to that experience.

In contrast you characterise the majority of teachers on this site as well-qualified and talented in comparison to TEFLers who lack an 'actual career'. I'm sure many teachers here are great, although qualifications don't necessarily indicate skill. In addition, unlike what you suggest, the international teaching world also includes many who do not have the qualifications to be registered/certified/licensed in their home countries and perhaps only have academic qualifications in a sought-after discipline or a 9-month part-time PGCEi cert with no teaching placements/practicums/observed teaching.
unsure
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by unsure »

chemteacher101 wrote:

> etc... Please note that a TEFL certificate is nothing more than just a
> printed piece of paper; it is not an official qualification. Same applies
> to a CELTA...

While you have a point in some of what you say, this last part is not accurate. The CELTA is accredited by the University of Cambridge and is considered to be a Bachelors level qualification by the UK's QCA (Qualification and Curriculum Authority). It is the minimum qualification accepted by the British Council (with a BA), and I have known teachers in international schools - even some tier 1s - to teach with this as their only teaching qualification.
chemteacher101
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:57 pm

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by chemteacher101 »

@unsure
Exceptions always exist. Yes, I am sure there may be the occasional teacher in an IS with a CELTA as their "qualification". Even if it is not a legitimate qualification in the sense that it is not a government-reconized teacher qualification that allows someone to work as a teacher in the public school system. The fact that there might be the occasional exception, and you may "know" some teachers who use this in lieu of a teaching license hardly makes a case for considering it to be equivalent. Even more so, I would bet those teachers you know at least had a Bachelors degree (which the OP does not, since he/she is asking whether a TEFL or similar would allow them to work even without having an undergraduate degree).

@Asteger
I seem to have hit a bit of a nerve? I apologize if I did, but I think you might be misreading my post as you mentioned several things which really have no relation to what I wrote. I never said there are no talented teachers in the TEFL field. Of course they are. There are both talented teachers as well as horrible ones. Just like in the IS circuit. This has nothing to do with whether a TEFL certificate is a valid qualification or not (it's not). Yes, there are some excellent TEFL teachers who are real experts in their field. I never said otherwise. In regards to the actual certificate: it is mostly a piece of paper in that most of them does not give you (generally) university credits that you could use towards an actual degree, and having no Bachelor's degree with a TEFL degree and thinking otherwise is somewhat ridiculous. For the CELTA in particular, while CELTA has made changes to what its name stands for, it was created as a Certificate in Teaching English to Adults. I am not talking about whether the content is a piece of paper. Some of these certificates might have great content. But if the question is whether these certificates are valid, as actual qualifications, or will greatly improve a CV or what not, then no, they are mostly a piece of paper. Not too far from taking a "specialization" set of courses from Coursera.

I also fail to see which part of my post characterized teachers on this site as well qualified or qualified. I simply said that this site is mostly used by teachers who have a career in international education. I never spoke about the quality of any teacher here. I am sure there are some great ones and some horrible ones. And I never said qualifications equal skill (where exactly in my post did I even suggested that?). I also agree with your point on PGCEis, which, are also not a valid teaching qualification (as they do not confer QTS). Whether they are at the same level of CELTA, a TOEFL certificate, etc, I will not give my opinion as it is completely out of the context of the PO's question which was about whether a Bachelors was necessary or something like a TEFL certificate would suffice (PGCEi would be out of the question for him/her if he/she has no Bachelor degree).
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

It doesnt make a difference what your language levels are.
On a technical level yes you could potentially get a visa to teach ESOL, as a practical matter you need a first/Bachelors degree. Between the margins is the scenario that could you find a job teaching ESOL in Indonesia but not get a work visa, thats a more pragmatic yes especially as you move out of Jakarta and Bali. There are a lot of expats in Indonesia doing all kinds of things from ESOL to tour guides to property agents on tourist & business visas living and working in Indonesia. There are certainly employers who will pay low coin but under the table turning a blind eye to your lack of a proper work visa. Theres also the option that the pandemic has proven of working digitally teaching ESOL remotely/online that allows you to be anywhere without the real need for a proper work visa.
Most of your comments would also apply to ESOL in a tertiary environment such as Uni. Though typically a Uni ESOL/FL department would want a DELTA for contract work or a MA TESOL for an FTE appointment. Youre also seeing more doctorates as well for tenure track appointments.

This forum gets a lot of requests from ITs and transitioning ETs who lack any of the formal artifacts of one being described as having an "actual career in teaching". A lot of those inquiry posts are from those who dont have a credential for KS/K12 edu or have a great deal of experience in KS/K12 edu.

A CELTA is absolutely a qualification, what it isnt is a professional edu credential for the KS/K12 field.

TESOL qualifications and certificates have little if any utility in IE. While there are exceptions that are growing as increasingly ETs transition into IE with the accelerated growth of lower third tier ISs (many of them barely more than EAP programs) a TESOL certificates and qualifications can actually be a detriment to an IT. Sometimes a recruiter or leader will see a candidate with one as being able to get more of an IT while not having to pay them more coin for as an attractive option.

The issue is that KS/K12 and TESOL are different fields and what might be considered a working credential in ESOL doesnt transition to a credential in the KS/K12 field. That the two fields share some similarities and looking at cross sectional examples may appear to be similar and even have overlap (KS/K12 IE does have a place for English language education) much as the fields of medicine identify dentistry separate from the clinical practice of generalized medicine their are congruities between the fields but they are separate fields.

ESOL ETs have little to offer IE. That you can train a monkey to play Chopin doesnt make them a pianist. Nor that craft can cover for skill, knowledge, and ability. There are 4 dimensions of an ITs tasking: performance, preparation, production and presence. That an ET can put on a show (performance) doesnt compensate for their lack of other factors. I havent seen every ET in the world, but there is little an ET could offer that would be beyond my appreciation.

The provenance of CELTAs are often greatly exaggerated by their holders, when that (and for that matter this applies to the DELTA as well) is presented as the holders sole qualification.
What constitutes a credential in TESOL as it means in IE/DE as the recognition and admission of an individual to the field of practice to the field of ESOL is a moot point. Whatever it is, it doesnt bridge between the fields of KS/K12 edu and TESOL.

There are many ETs who have made a career in TESOL. That their career is not that of an IT in the KS/K12 field, they are again, different fields.
Parshan
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat May 13, 2023 3:05 am

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by Parshan »

sciteach wrote:
> If there are jobs in language schools - I suggest you look for an ESL
> Teaching forum.
https://www.tefl.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3846 https://gbfmapps.com/fmwhatsapp-download/
Here's the link to an TEFL specific forum if you don't mind me sharing it here that may prove help to others asking the same question.
freetofly2022
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 10:58 am

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by freetofly2022 »

I just wanted to add on a professional level really assessing whether it may be of a greater financial benefit to just start your bachelors either do it accelerated or working on it to get it done quickly.. why?

Money! The financial benefit that you will get from having your bachelors/masters as opposed to a certification will be worth it for you. So instead of bouncing around working at a language school or hoping one of these international schools even gets you in the door, already you are seen as a lesser qualified candidate even with many many many years of experience.

I think actually asking yourself is this my actual career... if so... I would take the time to do your bachelors if you have the energy for it.... if you don't and simply want to continue on the road... go for it... financially you will not benefit as much... if your goal is just some years of adventure... OKKKKK but you will kick yourself if you continue down this road....

Stability wise, earnings wise, school options wise, benefits wise, housing wise and confidence wise as being degreed and competitive with others, you will win out more in the end... take a careful think about this. if you want to connect privately I am open to help.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

I disagree on most parts of @freetofly2022.

First, in regards to IE, having a bachelors/first degree isnt going to be some magic solution that opens doors. Its a requirement but its not one that distinguishes a category of applicant from one another in the vast majority of cases. What matters and makes a difference is having a professional KS/K12 edu credential, checking that box and then having KS/K12 experience. Those are a long way to go if your still pre bachelors/first degree.

Second, in terms of ESOL, it really depends where you are in your life.
1) On average ESOL pays better compared to an early career ITs when you consider that: A) ITs arent compensated for all of their on task hours. In ESOL if your working your getting paid. B) Early career ITs spend many more external hours doing the things that more experienced ITs have developed efficiencies for.
2) On average when it comes to classroom roles IE has a higher ceiling than ESOL pays. ESOL tends to plateau out rather early and IE has longer salary growth.
3) This is for classroom roles, because ESOL has an easier, and less resource intensive pathway to leadership and ownership that has better comp that ITs even at the higher end of the classroom salary scale.

Where I tend to agree with @freetofly2022 is that a bachelors/first degree will in the ESOL field open more doors and more opportunities in terms of eligibility for a work permit/visa. There are a substantial number of regions that wont issue a visa without evidence of a bachelors/first degree (at least as a skilled worker).
Undergraduate study is a significant investment though your looking at thousands in coin and years of study at full time or up to twice that if part time. Is spending 8 years studying for a degree while working part time at a cost of 30K for what might be a minor increase in salary. How long will you have to work and how much will you have to make before you break even? That trade off may not be worth it if your later in your career.
secondplace
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Response

Post by secondplace »

@psyguy:

- That you can train a monkey to play Chopin doesnt make them a pianist.

If you could prove to me you've done this you would go up 12.5 points, out of 1 million, in my estimation...
freetofly2022
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 10:58 am

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by freetofly2022 »

Get the degree! Especially if you plan on coming back and teaching in the US. Trust me!
Innsbruckave
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2023 2:01 pm

Re: Teaching in Indonesia without a bachelor's degree

Post by Innsbruckave »

Dave's ESL Cafe is the place to go with these questions. And a good place to look for a job.
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