The International Schools Review Forum

@Heliotrope

Yes it does, it indicates their isnt a correction in the market. What these Swiss boarding ISs just started being bad this year, and its just now a data point, thus ITs arent in the know until now. No, there just isnt a problem except for a few whiners.

We disagree.

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> Yes it does, it indicates their isnt a correction in the market. What these
> Swiss boarding ISs just started being bad this year, and its just now a
> data point, thus ITs arent in the know until now. No, there just isnt a
> problem except for a few whiners.
>
> We disagree.

I know of two horrible schools in my current country that still manage to be fully staffed every year, despite similarly low retention rates. Teachers there have told me stories that are similar to what I've heard about Swiss boarding schools, minus the Alps and the fancy buildings. The ISR reviews paint a similar picture.
Same is true for almost every terrible school worldwide, even the ones that aren't located in a beautiful country such as Switzerland.
There are a lot of teachers who just don't do thorough research.

We disagree.

A recruiter has been around the block once told me that recruiters in Western Europe, Japan and Thailand have it easiest. The school doesn't need to be good, because the country is what people are applying for. There is a steady flow of teachers applying at any international or 'international' school that you can find through Google that has vacancies. I think Mexico could be added because it's so close to the US. I wonder what the hardest country would be to recruit for if salary was taken out of the equation, other than those countries that are extremely unsafe such as Afghanistan or Syria. Countries like Niger, Mauritania, Guinea, Guyana, Tajikistan, Algeria, Timor-Leste would be a lot tougher than Switzerland, Denmark or Taiwan.

@Heliotrope

We disagree.

@Illiane_Blues

Thailand isnt in the same category as JP or the WE, neither is Mexico, but I concur with you and have been writing for years that its the location that matters.

Aside from those regions as an example, China, they just need so many ITs, and coin is how China staffs those ISs.

@PsyGuy
Yes, we do.

@Illiane_Blues
I think you listed some of the toughest countries to recruit for, especially since as far as I know none of the ISs in those countries offer a huge savings potential for candidates.
Still, when a former colleague of mine applied for a position at a school in Guinea, surprisingly there were five others who applied for the same position. But that's still a lot fewer candidates than in other countries I imagine.

It's definitely not all about location. While we can all imagine certain locales where we would love to live, plenty of people realistically consider that they're looking for a JOB, not a VACATION. And that's before we even consider that what you consider an ideal location might be on my list of "never in a million". City vs rural. Eternal sunshine vs four seasons. Tourist haven vs real people living real lives. Sports vs culture. Expat social scene vs deeply engaging with people who are from there. Whatever your preferred combo of all those and many more metrics, it probably isn't the same as mine, and there probably aren't that many jobs going that match all your preferences. Even if one did, would you go there just for the optimal location if the school was not a good place to work?

I agree, location isn't everything.

As I spend at minimum of 40 hours per week at school, the school needs to be a pleasant and professional enough place to work. Savings potential needs to be good enough so I can save for retirement without having to live extremely frugal.

But I also like to explore the city I live in on weekends and the occasional weekday evening, and the country I live in during the shorter breaks, so the location does factor into my decision. And some locations are best suited for a particular stage of ones life (young and single, a bit older with kids, empty-nester close to retirement).

It has been a bit of a puzzle sometimes, especially when there's an offer on the table, but a better one might or might not be coming after the deadline. In those situations I do notice that I'm usually less willing to comprise on the quality of the school than on the the attractiveness of the city, although most times I've waited for that other offer to materialize.

Before I landed my current job I was offered a position at a great school in a terrible city, and I declined because of the location, but more often I've been offered positions at mediocre or bad schools in great locations, and turned down those as well.
Right now I'm at a school I've always had in the top 3 of my shortlist, in a city where I've always wanted to live, so I'm almost dreading the moment when I feel like I want to move on, because it'll be hard to find such a good combination again. Feels like that moment is still many years away though.

Well said.
Personally after so many years living overseas, I'm a big fan of the "undiscovered gem" over the well known hotspot. Move to Singapore and it's true it has everything, but it also comes with a sort of expectation that you have to love it. After all, it has everything, and you should have known what you were getting into before you got there, so what excuse is there for not being 100% on board with everything? Everyone's already been there and done that, and it's almost like you're not even having an adventure, what with everything being so well known. It's all on blogs, videos, and walking tours catering to beer-drinking westeners.
For me, I'd rather go somewhere that is more of a mystery. There are so many nice places out there, so many nifty cities with quirks and parks and a local cuisine that's not yet made an appearance in chain restaurants around the world. With happy people living their lives. With medical care and everything else you need for a productive, functioning, happy life. It just doesn't appear on everyone's "50 places to visit before you die" lists.
So yeah, I'd be one of those people applying to Guinea. As well as Singapore. I don't really believe in limiting my options at the exploration stage. But if they both came through with offers, and all other factors being equal (they never are), I'd choose Guinea.

Rhysboy wrote:
> Does this apply to all international schools in Switzerland or just
> boarding schools?

I don't know about the non-boarding international schools, but I would suggest that if you are considering one, you look into the cost of living in relation to salary and taxes in the area. You won't have a housing allowance and Switzerland is super expensive.

@sid
I'm all for undiscovered gems, where if you wipe off some dirt you'll discover hidden beauty, but Guinea isn't one of those, going by what I've heard about Conakry and the rest of the country. If you wipe off dirt there, you'll just find more dirt.
The international schools there are just as unappealing.
Then again, as you're admin, these are schools where you might be able to make huge improvements relatively quickly. Just like as a teacher, it can be much more rewarding getting a student from a 2 to a 4 than from a 5 to a 7.

@Sid

Yes it is, its all about location. Youre not going on vacation, but youre also not going for the job. Your going to live and thats far more than just the job and the work. Yes youd go there even if the IS wasnt the ideal place to work. Lots of people dont like their job, thats why its called work, if it was entertainment youd be paying them, and if it was a hobby youd do it for free. Why, because when you get out of work you have that thing called life you get to do, and if your in a location where the only positive in your day is work, than you start living only for the job. You can LIVE though a bad IS in a great location, you can only SURVIVE a bad location regardless of how great the IS may be.

@angelica1981

You might not have a housing allowance or housing. Some positions do include boarding as part of the compensation package. Switzerland can be super expensive, but thats more a function of the IT than the salary.

@psyguy

Is there any any possibility you will start to, or perhaps learn to, spell and punctate accurately?

xx

PsyGuy wrote:
> Yes it is, its all about location. Youre not going on vacation, but youre
> also not going for the job. Your going to live and thats far more than just
> the job and the work. Yes youd go there even if the IS wasnt the ideal
> place to work. Lots of people dont like their job, thats why its called
> work, if it was entertainment youd be paying them, and if it was a hobby
> youd do it for free. Why, because when you get out of work you have that
> thing called life you get to do, and if your in a location where the only
> positive in your day is work, than you start living only for the job. You
> can LIVE though a bad IS in a great location, you can only SURVIVE a bad
> location regardless of how great the IS may be.


For you that might be true, but you don't represent all ITs.
For me it's not all about location.

And you can enjoy your work but still get paid for it.

@Heliotrope

Of course its true for me Im the one writing it, who else would it be representing.
I dont write from your point of view or to express your opinion, I write from my perspective.

So when you go to your IS do you take the coin?

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> Of course its true for me Im the one writing it, who else would it be
> representing.
> I dont write from your point of view or to express your opinion, I write
> from my perspective.
>
> So when you go to your IS do you take the coin?

Well, you kept writing 'you' instead of 'I', and when @sid said that for them it's not all about location, you replied by saying that yes, it is.
Btw, I know plenty of teachers who can LIVE through a great school in a bad location, but can only SURVIVE through a bad IS in a great location". I think most can live through both situations though.

Yes, of course I take the coin, but you already knew that. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy my job though.