32K - Average Salary for International Teachers?

Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

So still no source for the 32K number?
Just a guess then probably.

And everyone would save a lot more in Ukraine in the above example. That's why the salaries in Bermuda are quite a bit higher than that 50,000 (80,000 seems to be on the low end of normal), and even at schools that pays that 80,000+ USD the ITs complain about their inability to save, whereas in Ukraine ITs making less than 40,000 USD all say it's a good place to save serious amounts of cash. Cost of living matters a lot.

Smokegreynblues
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Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:50 pm

Re: 32K - Average Salary for International Teachers?

Post by Smokegreynblues »

I would chime in my two cents.
British schools usually if they can(Budget allows), follow the qts master MPS payscale, it helps them attract teachers from the Uk,
American schools usually follow the American average salary, which can vary wildly across several states.
IB schools usually follow the average scales according to their Tier and geographic location. It is done according to the competing schools in the area. Of course, there can be no geographic average, if one is considering the schools in Latin America, etc, the global average takes a nosedive.
It seems irrelevant to even consider a global average in IE. Is there a global average for Doctors, Nurses, Engineers (Licensed professions)? I guess not. There are a lot of generalizations in my answer, so don't beat me to it. Take it with a pinch of salt.

PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Smokegreynblues

Yes there is, those global averages are available from a variety of sources from a variety of fields.
Doctor:
https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019 ... rt-6011814
Nurse:
http://creativenurse.com/nurse-salaries ... the-world/
Engineer:
http://www.worldsalaries.org/engineer.shtml
In the case where an average isnt computed, simple add each of the data points and then divide by the number of data points used to get an average.
That you personally dont find it useful for whatever reason, doesnt mean it lacks utility.
Yes if you add the salaries of ITs from the LCSA the average can and does go down deeply, but if you didnt include them then it wouldnt really be representative of global ISs.

Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Smokegreynblues
>
> Yes there is, those global averages are available from a variety of sources
> from a variety of fields.
> Doctor:
>
> https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2019 ... rt-6011814
> Nurse:
> http://creativenurse.com/nurse-salaries ... the-world/
> Engineer:
> http://www.worldsalaries.org/engineer.shtml

> That you personally dont find it useful for whatever reason, doesnt mean it
> lacks utility.


So still no source for the 32K number?

And exactly what utility does the global average for the people on this forum have then?

sid
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: 32K - Average Salary for International Teachers?

Post by sid »

PG's in a tough spot. Not only does he have to come up with a source for his claim, he has to come up with a source that says the average is 32K.

Even the sources he offers for other professions don't do what he says they do: They don't offer a worldwide average salary. All they do is list the average salary in some (not all) specific countries. Except the doctors link, which needs a password, so who knows what's actually happening behind that paywall?

No source.

jschott
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: 32K - Average Salary for International Teachers?

Post by jschott »

JasperTheCat wrote:
> I read somewhere where that an average salary today for International
> teachers is 32K per year. I made that amount 9 years ago. Is this the right
> number (32K)?

Whatever the number is, it will be too low. 32? 42? 52? Who cares?

The sad fact is that the "effort to remuneration ratio" for teaching is almost universally terrible compared to many other professions. Speaking personally, I never worked harder than when I was a teacher, and yet I was never paid more poorly for the effort, the education I needed to practice, and the multitude of talents that were required to run a successful classroom. Whether it's 32K or 52K for the skills required to be a good teacher, you're just talking about a range that goes from embarrassingly bad to bad.

Yet I loved teaching and still do. However, I must always check my sanity when I teach because I know that with my skills, I could walk away and earn two or three times my teacher salary with relative ease (technology).

At some point, though, you have to decide what's more important: money or job/life satisfaction. It's not an easy question to answer when you have options.

The great irony, perhaps, is that while teaching is among the most demanding and yet most poorly paid of the jobs I have held, there is tremendous competition for teaching jobs. I suppose this speaks to many things: people can easily drift into teaching from being a student because they're familiar with the whole gig; people would rather spend their days engaging young minds (hopefully) rather than engaging a computer screen in a cube farm; people will sacrifice a lot (a LOT) of pay for the status and autonomy that teaching affords. The list goes on and on.

I have no answers. I do know that if you have options and being a teacher is just one of them, the choice is tough, or can be tough, and that perhaps a good strategy is compromise: get out for a while, stack some money while living frugally, and then return, free of concerns about money. If you do that, a lot of your life will have been devoted to something you cannot look back upon with pride, but oh, well. You've solved one of your needs. If you don't do that, you may end up on a message board one day referring incredulously to average teacher salaries.

C'est la vie.

PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

It provides the IT with a global average of IT salaries, a mean of the market, thats its utility.

@Sid

I dont actually have to do that at all, do your own research.

The claim Im making is that with less than 60 seconds of casual web searching, I was able to identify data points relevant to a global average of mean salaries in those fields. The data is out there, various governmental and organizational entities are interested in this kind of data. You might have to do some of the work yourself in aggregating relevant data, as finding a published piece may be more difficult to identify, but its certainly out there.

@jschott

I so very much want to agree with you, but the better part of me, has to disagree. Edus do work a lot harder earlier in their career and where and what environment your working in makes a lot of difference. An IS in Japan vs. a title 1 DS in an impoverished area of the US. Vastly different work environments with very different requirements on a DTs resources and efforts. Likewise when you get to a certain point in your career (around the third inflection point, about 4 years) an IT has developed the efficiencies and materials that make teaching a lot less effort and resource intensive. An It doesnt have to design new and whole lesson plans, they can teach them repeatedly year after year just the way they are or t most they just have to tweak them a little bit. ITs also get a lot of time off vs. those corporate cubicle jobs. ITs work about 190 days a year thats essentially half a year off. Those ITs that spend their summers and long holidays reworking lesson plans or on massive amounts of marking/grading arent working smarter.

I do strongly agree that edu has a lot of competition, and wholly agree with you that ts seen as a n easy profession to "drift" into because they are familiar with the job from the student side of the table, and it can easily look like all edus do is ramble on about some subject for a time all the while doing little more than making sure the students dont hurt each other or themselves. It can seem like edus are just glorified baby sitters, because a lot of it really is (the pandemic has shown some very controversial insights into the real need and role of edus, one one side its shown how critical we need classroom instruction based learning environments, and on the other side the need for that is more about supervising children, thus freeing up time and space for their parents, and not so much subject matter learning).

Heliotrope
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Re: Discussion

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> It provides the IT with a global average of IT salaries, a mean of the
> market, thats its utility.

How is that utility?

And still no source, so we can discard the number, even if a global average would serve some practical purpose.

PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

If an IT wanted to know where in relation their salary was to the global mean, that would be where the utility is.

"We"?, do you repp some group, or is "we" just @Heliotrope? In which case I can reasonably classify your statement as, meh, something @Heliotrope thinks.

Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> If an IT wanted to know where in relation their salary was to the global
> mean, that would be where the utility is.
>
> "We"?, do you repp some group, or is "we" just
> @Heliotrope? In which case I can reasonably classify your statement as,
> meh, something @Heliotrope thinks.

'We' as in 'I and others' can discard it out of hand. Do you not understand what 'we' means?
Everybody can discard your 32K number, since you don't back it up.
they can also choose to believe you (they're of course free to do so, I can't or want to stop them).
It's as Hitchens said: "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

I understand what "we" means do you? As Im unaware that you repp or speak for anyone else other than yourself, in which case your position that it can be ignored really only applies to you and your criteria for inclusion and exclusion, as to which my feeling is ~meh~

Im not Hitchens, more importantly Im not under any obligation to accept or defer to your pro-offered quote or citation.

sid
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: 32K - Average Salary for International Teachers?

Post by sid »

Oh PG, such a reach.
So you found “data points relevant to a global average of mean salaries” for other professions. Bully for you. But that is not the same thing as a source for a global average, neither for those professions, nor for international teachers. One cannot simply add together the numbers for a subset of countries and divide, given the ridiculous differences in population (or number of professionals) for those countries, and further given that many countries are missing.
But that’s not even the real issue. You made a ridiculous claim and pretended to have a source. You don’t. The rest of us here are all international educators just like you, and no one but you has ever heard of this source or this number. You defend yourself by pointing to data that does something completely different than what you claim. You talk about the ease of doing the research that found you these other irrelevant numbers. If it were that easy to find your real source, you or someone else would have done it by now.
You don’t have a source. Your number was made up.

chemteacher101
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Re: 32K - Average Salary for International Teachers?

Post by chemteacher101 »

There's no source for his made-up number.

He will keep replying things that will vary from distracting that specific fact (that he cannot provide a specific source for s number he stated as s fact) to entirely unrelated statements to distract from this. He will keep doing this until you give up, as long as he can have the last word.

Heliotrope
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> I understand what "we" means do you? As Im unaware that you repp
> or speak for anyone else other than yourself, in which case your position
> that it can be ignored really only applies to you and your criteria for
> inclusion and exclusion, as to which my feeling is ~meh~
>
> Im not Hitchens, more importantly Im not under any obligation to accept or
> defer to your pro-offered quote or citation.

Using 'we' doesn't necessarily mean I represent anyone else than myself.
If someone says: "Someone repaired the elevator. We can use it again!", that person just means that anyone can use that elevator again. They're not speaking for them, they're not instructing or forcing anyone to do so, they're just pointing out that the elevator can be used.
Just like I'm saying people can disregard your claim because you never pointed to any source to back it up.
And Hitchens is just pointing out the obvious. Maybe epistemology isn't really your thing, but I'll hold you to the same standards as I do my students.

PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

No its not a reach, its demonstration that the data is out there, and it shouldnt even be a surprise that data about how much certain professions make globally is out there. I found in less than 60 seconds some very peripheral data to demonstrate that such data does indeed exist, its not in some secret vault in a secret lair under a mountain.

Yes one can average averages, you take the numbers summ them then divide by the number of number points. I assure you time will not stop and the universe will not implode/explode if you do. Its pretty simple for a teacher, but your a leader so....

I do. Its not a ridiculous claim, its true, its valid, it exists, there is a source and its not made up. Reality is not defined by your belief structure.

@Heliotrope

Words dont explode when you misuse them. "It can be used", "the elevator can now be used", using "we" doesnt cause a fault in reality, your just inferring that you represent a larger group of individuals when in reality its just you. Standing in the lobby by yourself and saying "we can use the elevator now" is just yourself there is no we, we doesnt make additional people appear.

Hitchens claim is no different than stating water is wet. Agreeing with you or aligning with your goals and outcomes doesnt make the claim more valid its not self authenticating, substantial or significant because you claim it to be and than clarify its obvious. Its just @Heliotrope claiming some person said something that you agree with and inferring anyone who doesnt agree with you is stupid or dumb.

You have this position I have to provide you a source or I have to prove something to you as if someone appointed you an adjudicator.
I owe you nothing and we disagree.

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