PsyGuy,
Understood. I've began the process for licensure and am completing necessary modules, etc. Also preparing to take the CS Praxis and then I guess that will be the first real litmus test for my light resume.
As I understand it, the tradeoff is the MA provisional license never expiring, but at the same time international experience will never count towards professional licensing. An acceptable deal, given plans to continue upskilling. The UT AEL may be similarly lax with the same give-and-take, but I haven't confirmed this.
>>> "The approach would essentially be start with the 3 year UT credential and if it works out for you instead of renewing it, take the appropriate MTEL exams to obtain the MA Provisional credential. HI is how you professionalize either the UT or MA credentials as discussed above. After you have 3 years of appropriate edu experience you can then apply for the HI Standard (Professional grade) credential, which then would allow you (highly likely) to obtain QTS (a lifetime credential from the UK) since your teaching areas would be in subjects you have an academic (degree) background in. The other option would be to then use the HI Standard credential to obtain either the CA CLEAR or NJ Standard (both Professional grade credentials). The CA credential is valid for 5 years but requires no PD to renew and the NJ Standard credential is a lifetime credential."
Understood. I've saved this in my notes to look back on in a few years, or sooner.
>>> "If its Russia or bust then in the summer just pack, get on a plane and go there [...]"
I haven't ruled it out, and you've raised good points about needing one's ear to the ground. I'm personally interested in leaving Korea (not to say I don't appreciate how good the country's been, I've just been here long enough and it's time to branch out) but don't want to worry prematurely about destinations until, as you've said, I have more market data on how employable I am.
Beyond that, I can't think of any questions I have at this time. I've learned a lot about this process and know what needs to be done/studied. The next round of research and questions will begin, I assume, when it's time to apply for jobs and subsequently when it's time to look at specific CS and relevant teaching endorsement programs (the latter which may be more relevant to ask on a tech forum).
Thanks for your help, all.
Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
Reply
@Mencoh
You could apply for the UT AEL now in English literature and then add the CSci after youve taken the PRAXIS to reduce your processing/wait times.
The UT AEL is relatively new. You can renew it with 100 contact hours of appropriate PD, which is high for three year credential.
You could apply for the UT AEL now in English literature and then add the CSci after youve taken the PRAXIS to reduce your processing/wait times.
The UT AEL is relatively new. You can renew it with 100 contact hours of appropriate PD, which is high for three year credential.
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
PsyGuy, that's what I'm doing currently. AEL modules/paperwork/background check and studying for the CS Praxis.
I'm still unsure what they define as "appropriate professional development" in terms of accreditation, and am checking on it early next week while confirming that my completed modules are logged. I know the Utah DoE doesn't want the AEL to be some Monopoly Teach for Life Card, so I feel without a Utah address there would be some discretion involved in renewal. To be honest, I haven't worried about it much since I have solid plans to pursue a Master's once I begin subject teaching. If I'm mistaken or ignorant of any unknown renewal pitfalls, I'd appreciate being corrected.
I'm still unsure what they define as "appropriate professional development" in terms of accreditation, and am checking on it early next week while confirming that my completed modules are logged. I know the Utah DoE doesn't want the AEL to be some Monopoly Teach for Life Card, so I feel without a Utah address there would be some discretion involved in renewal. To be honest, I haven't worried about it much since I have solid plans to pursue a Master's once I begin subject teaching. If I'm mistaken or ignorant of any unknown renewal pitfalls, I'd appreciate being corrected.
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
Been a while since I looked at this forum. I see there's been a bunch of stuff posted. Just to give my view on a couple of issues:
I personally think PsyGuy is being a bit optimistic about the chances of landing a good position given your background. From what I read, you're an ex-journalist who's been teaching ESL in Korean hagwons for some years and doing 'coding on the side', whatever that means. That's a very thin basis, if you ask me, to hope for a FT ICT position at a decent school making decent money. I don't think there are an overwhelming number of schools, on or off 'the circuit' who hire 100% ICT and if they do, they might look for something a bit more substantial than a passed Praxis exam and TeachNow, UT AEL, MA Provisional, or whatever other pseudo-license can be cobbled together while living abroad.
I actually have a colleague in my school now who has that UT 'credential.' She says she cannot renew it at all and it's going to be a dead letter, useless going forward. And by the way, she earns ~7% less than I do, although she has that credential and I have no such thing. Credentials are not the be all end all for a decent job and better pay.
I had a colleague a couple of years ago who got TeachNow, and used it to get a position at what seemed like a fancy Egyptian school. He said it was a disaster teaching there. Spoiled rich brats who cared about nothing and argued about everything, every day. He quit after a year. TeachNow-only CVs are pretty obvious, these days. Reputable schools aren't going to be interested in those. Teaching at low-tier schools can be pretty unpleasant, if you're not careful.
In China, there are so many 'international' schools and programs, there's such a gap between good and bad. Our school has another, totally separate program downstairs with kids not even half as capable as hours, and pay that's probably 70% or less than what we make. There's another campus of our school, same name, that has even worse conditions for foreign teachers (students are a couple of notches above feral animals, I've been told directly). I know a high school in Dongguan that has both a very good IB program with excellent students and a dual-degree Canadian program with absolute moron students who have been kicked out of other programs. All the teaching staff are technically employed by the same International Departments of the same high schools, but the work experiences are hugely different.
At the end of the day, if you are determined to move forward without going back to the US to do anything at all, well, you might be fine. PsyGuy might be right. People have done it. I would just advise caution and expect the worse, not the better. Be prepared. You might have some unpleasant experiences until you have something that you can really show for yourself. Study the IG and AP and IB curriculums, that can help you more than Praxis.
PS: I saw a mention of Myanmar as a 'hardship post' in Asia that isn't China...that's for sure. Myanmar is VERY VERY rough. I spent about 10 days there a couple years ago. Yangon is just barely tolerable, the rest of the country...yikes. Mandalay is possibly the worst city I've ever visited in Asia. Better visit first, that is a HUGE jump from Korea in terms of just about everything.
I personally think PsyGuy is being a bit optimistic about the chances of landing a good position given your background. From what I read, you're an ex-journalist who's been teaching ESL in Korean hagwons for some years and doing 'coding on the side', whatever that means. That's a very thin basis, if you ask me, to hope for a FT ICT position at a decent school making decent money. I don't think there are an overwhelming number of schools, on or off 'the circuit' who hire 100% ICT and if they do, they might look for something a bit more substantial than a passed Praxis exam and TeachNow, UT AEL, MA Provisional, or whatever other pseudo-license can be cobbled together while living abroad.
I actually have a colleague in my school now who has that UT 'credential.' She says she cannot renew it at all and it's going to be a dead letter, useless going forward. And by the way, she earns ~7% less than I do, although she has that credential and I have no such thing. Credentials are not the be all end all for a decent job and better pay.
I had a colleague a couple of years ago who got TeachNow, and used it to get a position at what seemed like a fancy Egyptian school. He said it was a disaster teaching there. Spoiled rich brats who cared about nothing and argued about everything, every day. He quit after a year. TeachNow-only CVs are pretty obvious, these days. Reputable schools aren't going to be interested in those. Teaching at low-tier schools can be pretty unpleasant, if you're not careful.
In China, there are so many 'international' schools and programs, there's such a gap between good and bad. Our school has another, totally separate program downstairs with kids not even half as capable as hours, and pay that's probably 70% or less than what we make. There's another campus of our school, same name, that has even worse conditions for foreign teachers (students are a couple of notches above feral animals, I've been told directly). I know a high school in Dongguan that has both a very good IB program with excellent students and a dual-degree Canadian program with absolute moron students who have been kicked out of other programs. All the teaching staff are technically employed by the same International Departments of the same high schools, but the work experiences are hugely different.
At the end of the day, if you are determined to move forward without going back to the US to do anything at all, well, you might be fine. PsyGuy might be right. People have done it. I would just advise caution and expect the worse, not the better. Be prepared. You might have some unpleasant experiences until you have something that you can really show for yourself. Study the IG and AP and IB curriculums, that can help you more than Praxis.
PS: I saw a mention of Myanmar as a 'hardship post' in Asia that isn't China...that's for sure. Myanmar is VERY VERY rough. I spent about 10 days there a couple years ago. Yangon is just barely tolerable, the rest of the country...yikes. Mandalay is possibly the worst city I've ever visited in Asia. Better visit first, that is a HUGE jump from Korea in terms of just about everything.
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
Modernist, thanks for replying.
>>> "I personally think PsyGuy is being a bit optimistic about the chances of landing a good position given your background."
The message and intent I got from PsyGuy -- paraphrased -- was "You have zero practical experience, but at the very least you can avoid paying thousands of dollars to find out if nobody wants you." If that's sunny optimism, I'd hate to see dour. Their input, though, has been helpful as I'd rather learn my worth for dimes instead of dollars.
>>> "I don't think there are an overwhelming number of schools, on or off 'the circuit' who hire 100% ICT and if they do, they might look for something a bit more substantial than a passed Praxis exam and TeachNow, UT AEL, MA Provisional, or whatever other pseudo-license can be cobbled together while living abroad."
>>> "I actually have a colleague in my school now who has that UT 'credential.' She says she cannot renew it at all and it's going to be a dead letter, useless going forward. And by the way, she earns ~7% less than I do, although she has that credential and I have no such thing. Credentials are not the be all end all for a decent job and better pay."
What has your colleague done to upskill in order to renew the UT AEL? If you don't have a credential, then are you able to teach outside of China?
I don't understand your scorn for the provisional licensing route when it's more than $5,000 cheaper than the next alternative (Teach-Now) and you -- in the same breath -- are saying that credentials don't matter as much as others claim. From what I've researched it sounds the same on paper unless you've taught in your home country for years, taught low-tier, or hold a regionally-accredited and relevant Master's.
>>> "I had a colleague a couple of years ago who got TeachNow, and used it to get a position at what seemed like a fancy Egyptian school. He said it was a disaster teaching there. Spoiled rich brats who cared about nothing and argued about everything, every day. He quit after a year. TeachNow-only CVs are pretty obvious, these days. Reputable schools aren't going to be interested in those. Teaching at low-tier schools can be pretty unpleasant, if you're not careful."
>>> "In China, there are so many 'international' schools and programs, there's such a gap between good and bad. Our school has another, totally separate program downstairs with kids not even half as capable as hours, and pay that's probably 70% or less than what we make. There's another campus of our school, same name, that has even worse conditions for foreign teachers (students are a couple of notches above feral animals, I've been told directly). I know a high school in Dongguan that has both a very good IB program with excellent students and a dual-degree Canadian program with absolute moron students who have been kicked out of other programs. All the teaching staff are technically employed by the same International Departments of the same high schools, but the work experiences are hugely different."
>>> "PS: I saw a mention of Myanmar as a 'hardship post' in Asia that isn't China...that's for sure. Myanmar is VERY VERY rough. I spent about 10 days there a couple years ago. Yangon is just barely tolerable, the rest of the country...yikes. Mandalay is possibly the worst city I've ever visited in Asia. Better visit first, that is a HUGE jump from Korea in terms of just about everything."
Well, international schools are privatized education, and standards/school cultures are going to vary wildly, especially for China and its remaining clemency for uncertified teachers who want subject-teaching experience. Some countries are better than others. Kids are disrespectful. Some administrators prioritize profit over learning. We live in a less-than-ideal world, sure.
I don't know you, and can't assume anything about you. If you've taught ESL in Korea and you now teach English in China, then we have practically the same resume. I could do that too (except I don't want to). Anything I do beyond that is an addition -- however substantial or marginal -- to my CV, not a subtraction.
You mentioned studying the IG/IB/AP/etc. curricula to begin with, and thank you for that. The CS Praxis closely resembles the APCSA and CSP curriculum from what I can see, which is one such example. It's mandatory for the relevant CTE endorsement which is why I'm focused on it.
So I have some options outside of using my English-teaching endorsement:
1) The Grind -- Get license and ICT endorsement, teach low-tier while upskilling/completing degree
2) The Hardship Tier -- Move to rural America for two years, acquire more competitive teaching experience
3) The Full Metal Jacket -- Get beaten by the job market, enlist in the military as O-1 and ask Uncle Sam for tuition money
First two have similar lack-of-expertise/experience woes that only time will fix. Yes, option two is the tried-and-tested method for becoming markedly more competitive. Maybe the job market will show me I have to do that if teaching is what I really want to do.
>>> "I personally think PsyGuy is being a bit optimistic about the chances of landing a good position given your background."
The message and intent I got from PsyGuy -- paraphrased -- was "You have zero practical experience, but at the very least you can avoid paying thousands of dollars to find out if nobody wants you." If that's sunny optimism, I'd hate to see dour. Their input, though, has been helpful as I'd rather learn my worth for dimes instead of dollars.
>>> "I don't think there are an overwhelming number of schools, on or off 'the circuit' who hire 100% ICT and if they do, they might look for something a bit more substantial than a passed Praxis exam and TeachNow, UT AEL, MA Provisional, or whatever other pseudo-license can be cobbled together while living abroad."
>>> "I actually have a colleague in my school now who has that UT 'credential.' She says she cannot renew it at all and it's going to be a dead letter, useless going forward. And by the way, she earns ~7% less than I do, although she has that credential and I have no such thing. Credentials are not the be all end all for a decent job and better pay."
What has your colleague done to upskill in order to renew the UT AEL? If you don't have a credential, then are you able to teach outside of China?
I don't understand your scorn for the provisional licensing route when it's more than $5,000 cheaper than the next alternative (Teach-Now) and you -- in the same breath -- are saying that credentials don't matter as much as others claim. From what I've researched it sounds the same on paper unless you've taught in your home country for years, taught low-tier, or hold a regionally-accredited and relevant Master's.
>>> "I had a colleague a couple of years ago who got TeachNow, and used it to get a position at what seemed like a fancy Egyptian school. He said it was a disaster teaching there. Spoiled rich brats who cared about nothing and argued about everything, every day. He quit after a year. TeachNow-only CVs are pretty obvious, these days. Reputable schools aren't going to be interested in those. Teaching at low-tier schools can be pretty unpleasant, if you're not careful."
>>> "In China, there are so many 'international' schools and programs, there's such a gap between good and bad. Our school has another, totally separate program downstairs with kids not even half as capable as hours, and pay that's probably 70% or less than what we make. There's another campus of our school, same name, that has even worse conditions for foreign teachers (students are a couple of notches above feral animals, I've been told directly). I know a high school in Dongguan that has both a very good IB program with excellent students and a dual-degree Canadian program with absolute moron students who have been kicked out of other programs. All the teaching staff are technically employed by the same International Departments of the same high schools, but the work experiences are hugely different."
>>> "PS: I saw a mention of Myanmar as a 'hardship post' in Asia that isn't China...that's for sure. Myanmar is VERY VERY rough. I spent about 10 days there a couple years ago. Yangon is just barely tolerable, the rest of the country...yikes. Mandalay is possibly the worst city I've ever visited in Asia. Better visit first, that is a HUGE jump from Korea in terms of just about everything."
Well, international schools are privatized education, and standards/school cultures are going to vary wildly, especially for China and its remaining clemency for uncertified teachers who want subject-teaching experience. Some countries are better than others. Kids are disrespectful. Some administrators prioritize profit over learning. We live in a less-than-ideal world, sure.
I don't know you, and can't assume anything about you. If you've taught ESL in Korea and you now teach English in China, then we have practically the same resume. I could do that too (except I don't want to). Anything I do beyond that is an addition -- however substantial or marginal -- to my CV, not a subtraction.
You mentioned studying the IG/IB/AP/etc. curricula to begin with, and thank you for that. The CS Praxis closely resembles the APCSA and CSP curriculum from what I can see, which is one such example. It's mandatory for the relevant CTE endorsement which is why I'm focused on it.
So I have some options outside of using my English-teaching endorsement:
1) The Grind -- Get license and ICT endorsement, teach low-tier while upskilling/completing degree
2) The Hardship Tier -- Move to rural America for two years, acquire more competitive teaching experience
3) The Full Metal Jacket -- Get beaten by the job market, enlist in the military as O-1 and ask Uncle Sam for tuition money
First two have similar lack-of-expertise/experience woes that only time will fix. Yes, option two is the tried-and-tested method for becoming markedly more competitive. Maybe the job market will show me I have to do that if teaching is what I really want to do.
Discussion
There a lot to address here. The AEL is a new credential for UT that started in the summer of 2019, its new enough that while I applaud an IT wisely planning their PD for renewal in advance, no one including the UT DOE really knows how thats going to work out. Prior to that UT divided a variety of credentials between level 1, (Entry grade), and level 2 (Professional grade) credentials, one of those level 1 credentials a the APT (Alternative Pathway to Teaching) which is equivalent to the current AEL. The APT required in addition to the PD hours, demonstrating progress towards the level 2 credential which was a very difficult sell for an IT working OS. It was generally nonrenewable. The AEL might meet the same challenge, it may not require any demonstration of progress.
If an IT has the APT they are fortunate in that while they while they cant renew it they can simply apply for the new AEL, utilizing their previous PRAXIS scores without submitting any PD.
Most ICT positions are FT. While they may have other tech duties most of them are doing ICT, possibly DeT, in rare situations a maths course, but few have split course loads outside of library or comp lab tasks. Maybe some 1on1 tutoring with a special pop. students.
I dont believe the LW will be at a decent IS or be paid decently (average), but its also very possible and likely that the LW could just as well end up in some urban title 1 DS and have to contend with any number of horrors.
Credentials may not be the end all but they are the start all in IE. There are a lot of limits and challenges for an IT lacking a credential, though what is a credential and regions and ISs vary on what is necessary and what is desirable.
I dont know if they would be looking for much more, a lot of primary and lower secondary isnt really programming its more technology consumption not creation at very basic programming levels your doing logic structures. Google/Apple/MS educator is more important than a repertoire of coding languages. Even at SLL students that choose ICT typically already know what they are doing and the course is more about mentoring development and deployment of an app or other product as part of their Uni application. The exam prep hasnt really developed much. The programming for AP is Java, A*/IG and DIP is pseudo code. Add a Google/Apple/MS engineer/technician certificate and thats pretty much it, especially if not a Tech.Dir.
I would fully support the training of an academic pathway compared to skills based and even more so assessment based pathways to a credential, but an academic/traditional pathway to a credential isnt an option open to the LW and further would require a substantially higher commitment of both coin and resources to accomplish.
Studying curriculums at this point is ill advised, the LW needs to pass the various exams (PRAXIS) to obtain a credential and curriculum programs have little bearing on the content in those exams.
@Mencoh
What is a credential varies between regions, in some regions a degree such as a B.Ed or M.Ed is the working qualification for professional edu. In IE a Masters in edu is a reasonable working qualification.
China isnt the only region that accepts credentialed ITs. Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos, Thailand outside of the little tigers its not a hard limitation.
If an IT has the APT they are fortunate in that while they while they cant renew it they can simply apply for the new AEL, utilizing their previous PRAXIS scores without submitting any PD.
Most ICT positions are FT. While they may have other tech duties most of them are doing ICT, possibly DeT, in rare situations a maths course, but few have split course loads outside of library or comp lab tasks. Maybe some 1on1 tutoring with a special pop. students.
I dont believe the LW will be at a decent IS or be paid decently (average), but its also very possible and likely that the LW could just as well end up in some urban title 1 DS and have to contend with any number of horrors.
Credentials may not be the end all but they are the start all in IE. There are a lot of limits and challenges for an IT lacking a credential, though what is a credential and regions and ISs vary on what is necessary and what is desirable.
I dont know if they would be looking for much more, a lot of primary and lower secondary isnt really programming its more technology consumption not creation at very basic programming levels your doing logic structures. Google/Apple/MS educator is more important than a repertoire of coding languages. Even at SLL students that choose ICT typically already know what they are doing and the course is more about mentoring development and deployment of an app or other product as part of their Uni application. The exam prep hasnt really developed much. The programming for AP is Java, A*/IG and DIP is pseudo code. Add a Google/Apple/MS engineer/technician certificate and thats pretty much it, especially if not a Tech.Dir.
I would fully support the training of an academic pathway compared to skills based and even more so assessment based pathways to a credential, but an academic/traditional pathway to a credential isnt an option open to the LW and further would require a substantially higher commitment of both coin and resources to accomplish.
Studying curriculums at this point is ill advised, the LW needs to pass the various exams (PRAXIS) to obtain a credential and curriculum programs have little bearing on the content in those exams.
@Mencoh
What is a credential varies between regions, in some regions a degree such as a B.Ed or M.Ed is the working qualification for professional edu. In IE a Masters in edu is a reasonable working qualification.
China isnt the only region that accepts credentialed ITs. Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos, Thailand outside of the little tigers its not a hard limitation.
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
I did Teach Now and got a...hmm let's say adequate... job teaching two subjects right off the bat. I did have a lot of background in tutoring, however, and a solid academic history in my subjects. I think any program where you end up with a full license is a way more secure option any kind of provisional license, but depends on how much time and $ you want to spend I guess. It's definitely true you won't get a great job but already being abroad (less of a flight risk) and having experience in ESL plus a license would be enough for plenty of those lower tier schools to consider you, based on the number of interviews/offers I had right after finishing TN. Just check the number of openings on TES that accept NQTs. My current job is kinda shit, but I'm teaching a desirable curriculum and the students are lovely. If you can suffer through that first contract, you have a lot more options. I also taught ESL in SK and honestly if you can thrive at a hagwon you'll have the patience to get through a few years at a crappy international school.
Last edited by s0830887 on Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
I for the life of me can't figure out what LW means, though I know it refers to me. Looking Worker? Lone Wanderer?
PsyGuy, I've taken the practice test for the Praxis and it doesn't seem to be too difficult, though as Modernist said it's clearly a baseline and not the best estimation of true skill/knowledge. I'm being processed for an alternative license and if there are any roadblocks, I know studying for the MTEL is another option.
One lingering question: Should I still join Search Associates to look for an intern teaching contract? I know my best bets right now are bilingual and private schools, locally-owned, etc.
>>> "China isnt the only region that accepts credentialed ITs. Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos, Thailand outside of the little tigers its not a hard limitation."
Do you mean to say "uncredentialed ITs"? As my question to Modernist was where he could feasibly go outside of China, having subject-taught without a credential.
Thanks again, all.
PsyGuy, I've taken the practice test for the Praxis and it doesn't seem to be too difficult, though as Modernist said it's clearly a baseline and not the best estimation of true skill/knowledge. I'm being processed for an alternative license and if there are any roadblocks, I know studying for the MTEL is another option.
One lingering question: Should I still join Search Associates to look for an intern teaching contract? I know my best bets right now are bilingual and private schools, locally-owned, etc.
>>> "China isnt the only region that accepts credentialed ITs. Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos, Thailand outside of the little tigers its not a hard limitation."
Do you mean to say "uncredentialed ITs"? As my question to Modernist was where he could feasibly go outside of China, having subject-taught without a credential.
Thanks again, all.
-
Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
Mencoh wrote:
> I for the life of me can't figure out what LW means, though I know it refers to me.
> Looking Worker? Lone Wanderer?
PsyGuy is the only one on this forum who uses it. It means Letter Writer.
The rest of us would have used OP (original poster).
> I for the life of me can't figure out what LW means, though I know it refers to me.
> Looking Worker? Lone Wanderer?
PsyGuy is the only one on this forum who uses it. It means Letter Writer.
The rest of us would have used OP (original poster).
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
s0830887,
Noted, thanks for your advice on using TES and checking the openings.
>>> "I also taught ESL in SK and honestly if you can thrive at a hagwon you'll have the patience to get through a few years at a crappy international school."
Do you know what an NQT's expectations can be in terms of urban or rural placement? Or is that not really a common distinction? (i.e. something like NQTs frequently needing to grind out rural positions before competing for urban contracts)
Heliotrope,
>>> "PsyGuy is the only one on this forum who uses it. It means Letter Writer. The rest of us would have used OP (original poster)."
Got it, thanks.
Noted, thanks for your advice on using TES and checking the openings.
>>> "I also taught ESL in SK and honestly if you can thrive at a hagwon you'll have the patience to get through a few years at a crappy international school."
Do you know what an NQT's expectations can be in terms of urban or rural placement? Or is that not really a common distinction? (i.e. something like NQTs frequently needing to grind out rural positions before competing for urban contracts)
Heliotrope,
>>> "PsyGuy is the only one on this forum who uses it. It means Letter Writer. The rest of us would have used OP (original poster)."
Got it, thanks.
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
In fairness, I would like to say I didn't mean to sound overly harsh to the OP. I can see that he was a journalist once, he writes well and responds to criticism effectively. I do, in fact, understand the situation he's in. He wants to do something more satisfying than teaching Korean ESL. I would imagine that's a pretty universal experience.
As for learning curriculum, I'm not saying he should study it intensively, more just examine what the different standards are looking for. For example, I have a job now teaching ALevels, which before I took it, I had never even heard of, let alone taught. My first year was pretty rough. He could avoid this by having an idea of which of them he'd prefer most, versus which he might rather avoid. Some Americans, like me, can do ALevel teaching without too much trouble, while others like my colleague here find the whole thing exasperating and strongly prefer AP style programs. Once he knows what he wants to teach, he can focus on those kinds of schools. We all know that once you have experience doing a type of teaching, it's much easier to find future jobs doing that subject.
I don't think 'urban/rural' is a useful distinction in international teaching. That's more like Korea, because it's so small. Any school that has money to hire foreign staff is going to be urban. In most of Asia, it's more about how bad the city is. For example, in China, if you have good qualifications you are looking at Beijing, Shanghai or Shenzhen/Guangzhou. Besides these, there are a handful of decent smaller cities (Chengdu, Hangzhou, Suzhou, Nanjing, Qingdao, Xiamen) and a LOT LOT LOT of fairly appalling cities that almost no Westerner would want to spend more than 2-3 days in, let alone live in. These places may have large populations but are mostly just massive sprawls of ugly concrete and crappy shopping and lousy food and air pollution (for example, Xi'an, Hefei, Jinan, Shenyang, Wuhan, Changsha, Nanchang, Zhengzhou...plenty more). Because those places all have many millions of people, they have wealthy people who may want to send their kids abroad, and hence they have international schools. Those schools need staff, and since they often can't get properly qualified staff who will want to be in Shanghai, etc, they may hire someone like yourself. You may say you could tough it out, fair enough, but living in those places is a pretty difficult gig. I did it once, I know. It can be exhausting in a way that even rural Korea isn't. You can always take the KTX a couple of hours and be in Seoul or Busan for the weekend, but China is so huge it can be most of a day and a lot of bucks just to get out of a backwater city. Besides China, plenty of other Asian countries with ISs have similar cities that are either horrible or extremely isolated or both (for example, I would never voluntarily reside in Hanoi, it's a sweltering furnace basically every day and every night too, with atrocious traffic as a bonus).
This isn't even to speak of the many, many schools in good cities, which are essentially trash cans for students too stupid or ill-behaved or lazy or all of the above to manage in better schools but still remain extremely rich (Beijing in particular has lots of these).
To answer about myself, yes, OP is correct. I really cannot teach outside of China. As I said, I'm very similar to him in my experience (although actually I'm not teaching ESL or any kind of English here...basically just luck of the draw to get out of it 4 years ago). My issue is with his original statement 'my life is abroad' and PsyGuy's claim that it 'isn't an option' for him to do proper training. I think it would be more accurate to say, he doesn't WANT to do that. He wants to stay over here and keep earning, he doesn't want to write a big check to an American graduate program, he doesn't like the idea of sitting in a classroom as a MA student for 1-2 years (assuming such things ever happen again, sigh) and/or he doesn't want to be student teaching in a ghetto urban or rural meth school for however long, among others. Right, OP?
NOBODY really wants to do all that, including me. All we have to do is look at thread after thread on this forum, going back years, from people trying to find some kind of method to get all the rewards of IT with little if any sacrifices and paying the least amount possible in terms of money or time or both. Getting what the OP accurately calls a 'Monopoly Teach-for-Life Card,' parachuting into a cushy position at a cushy school in a nice city earning a big salary for easy teaching of brilliant and well-behaved kids.
I just don't think that's likely. Not the way the world works.
The idea on some parts of this forum seems to be, yes, you'll have to do some crappy jobs for a bit, but then you'll kind of miraculously move up the tier system as you put your time in. I doubt this. I think there will be, or maybe already is, a dual-layer system, one layer for people with home-country experience and actual licenses (Elite tier, one, most of two, as PsyGuy would call them). The second layer is the tier three schools, and not even all of those. People with TN/DC or TR/FL credentials, or MA Provisionals, or UT AEL, or QTS with no home country/all in Asia experience, or whatever else...they'll be stuck there. They'll not be able to move up the system with those marginal credentials. Maybe moving up happened before, it will happen again in individual cases, but I mean in the aggregate. Don't all hiring staff in every country know exactly what a DC credential on a CV means by now?
(I'm choosing to do the hard thing and going back and doing the MA program and the license. I don't want to, not really, just like he doesn't. It comes with a whole bunch of sucky trade-offs, absolutely. But I want to work in schools better than where I am now, and I want to not be tethered to China for the rest of my life, either. Day-to-day this country is getting more and more unappealing to live in, as this forum and many others will confirm).
He may get a tolerable job, sure, but he may very well suffer more than he's doing now, at least for a while. I can understand what he's doing. It's entirely reasonable. He should take the likelihood of him ending up here in the PRC, with me, as a high probability. At least for now, China still has enough apatite for foreign teachers to accept light resumes like his (and mine, as it was when I got here 5 years ago).
As for learning curriculum, I'm not saying he should study it intensively, more just examine what the different standards are looking for. For example, I have a job now teaching ALevels, which before I took it, I had never even heard of, let alone taught. My first year was pretty rough. He could avoid this by having an idea of which of them he'd prefer most, versus which he might rather avoid. Some Americans, like me, can do ALevel teaching without too much trouble, while others like my colleague here find the whole thing exasperating and strongly prefer AP style programs. Once he knows what he wants to teach, he can focus on those kinds of schools. We all know that once you have experience doing a type of teaching, it's much easier to find future jobs doing that subject.
I don't think 'urban/rural' is a useful distinction in international teaching. That's more like Korea, because it's so small. Any school that has money to hire foreign staff is going to be urban. In most of Asia, it's more about how bad the city is. For example, in China, if you have good qualifications you are looking at Beijing, Shanghai or Shenzhen/Guangzhou. Besides these, there are a handful of decent smaller cities (Chengdu, Hangzhou, Suzhou, Nanjing, Qingdao, Xiamen) and a LOT LOT LOT of fairly appalling cities that almost no Westerner would want to spend more than 2-3 days in, let alone live in. These places may have large populations but are mostly just massive sprawls of ugly concrete and crappy shopping and lousy food and air pollution (for example, Xi'an, Hefei, Jinan, Shenyang, Wuhan, Changsha, Nanchang, Zhengzhou...plenty more). Because those places all have many millions of people, they have wealthy people who may want to send their kids abroad, and hence they have international schools. Those schools need staff, and since they often can't get properly qualified staff who will want to be in Shanghai, etc, they may hire someone like yourself. You may say you could tough it out, fair enough, but living in those places is a pretty difficult gig. I did it once, I know. It can be exhausting in a way that even rural Korea isn't. You can always take the KTX a couple of hours and be in Seoul or Busan for the weekend, but China is so huge it can be most of a day and a lot of bucks just to get out of a backwater city. Besides China, plenty of other Asian countries with ISs have similar cities that are either horrible or extremely isolated or both (for example, I would never voluntarily reside in Hanoi, it's a sweltering furnace basically every day and every night too, with atrocious traffic as a bonus).
This isn't even to speak of the many, many schools in good cities, which are essentially trash cans for students too stupid or ill-behaved or lazy or all of the above to manage in better schools but still remain extremely rich (Beijing in particular has lots of these).
To answer about myself, yes, OP is correct. I really cannot teach outside of China. As I said, I'm very similar to him in my experience (although actually I'm not teaching ESL or any kind of English here...basically just luck of the draw to get out of it 4 years ago). My issue is with his original statement 'my life is abroad' and PsyGuy's claim that it 'isn't an option' for him to do proper training. I think it would be more accurate to say, he doesn't WANT to do that. He wants to stay over here and keep earning, he doesn't want to write a big check to an American graduate program, he doesn't like the idea of sitting in a classroom as a MA student for 1-2 years (assuming such things ever happen again, sigh) and/or he doesn't want to be student teaching in a ghetto urban or rural meth school for however long, among others. Right, OP?
NOBODY really wants to do all that, including me. All we have to do is look at thread after thread on this forum, going back years, from people trying to find some kind of method to get all the rewards of IT with little if any sacrifices and paying the least amount possible in terms of money or time or both. Getting what the OP accurately calls a 'Monopoly Teach-for-Life Card,' parachuting into a cushy position at a cushy school in a nice city earning a big salary for easy teaching of brilliant and well-behaved kids.
I just don't think that's likely. Not the way the world works.
The idea on some parts of this forum seems to be, yes, you'll have to do some crappy jobs for a bit, but then you'll kind of miraculously move up the tier system as you put your time in. I doubt this. I think there will be, or maybe already is, a dual-layer system, one layer for people with home-country experience and actual licenses (Elite tier, one, most of two, as PsyGuy would call them). The second layer is the tier three schools, and not even all of those. People with TN/DC or TR/FL credentials, or MA Provisionals, or UT AEL, or QTS with no home country/all in Asia experience, or whatever else...they'll be stuck there. They'll not be able to move up the system with those marginal credentials. Maybe moving up happened before, it will happen again in individual cases, but I mean in the aggregate. Don't all hiring staff in every country know exactly what a DC credential on a CV means by now?
(I'm choosing to do the hard thing and going back and doing the MA program and the license. I don't want to, not really, just like he doesn't. It comes with a whole bunch of sucky trade-offs, absolutely. But I want to work in schools better than where I am now, and I want to not be tethered to China for the rest of my life, either. Day-to-day this country is getting more and more unappealing to live in, as this forum and many others will confirm).
He may get a tolerable job, sure, but he may very well suffer more than he's doing now, at least for a while. I can understand what he's doing. It's entirely reasonable. He should take the likelihood of him ending up here in the PRC, with me, as a high probability. At least for now, China still has enough apatite for foreign teachers to accept light resumes like his (and mine, as it was when I got here 5 years ago).
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
Modernist, you've expressed many of the same concerns I have about the viability of teaching abroad without home country experience. I am nearing the end of a master's program in History and have a Provisional credential from Massachusetts, but no stateside teaching experience. I would rather start out at a third tier school in a fun city in China or Brazil than go through a four-year credentialing program in my local public school district resulting in a provisional credential that then requires plenty of hoop-jumping to make permanent.
Only time will tell whether international education as a field grows enough to support the ambitions of those without extensive teaching experience back home. Psyguy has mentioned relatively unpromoted domestic schools with international programs as a potential way in.
If there's anything positive that the COVID situation has done for me, it has been to give me a new mental flexibility. Now that so many people have worked from home, there is a strong possibility that working from home in a cheaper country, particularly in Latin America will become a reality for the adventurous. Working for a U.S. company while living in Mexico City might just beat living in a second-tier Chinese city teaching at a third-tier school.
Only time will tell whether international education as a field grows enough to support the ambitions of those without extensive teaching experience back home. Psyguy has mentioned relatively unpromoted domestic schools with international programs as a potential way in.
If there's anything positive that the COVID situation has done for me, it has been to give me a new mental flexibility. Now that so many people have worked from home, there is a strong possibility that working from home in a cheaper country, particularly in Latin America will become a reality for the adventurous. Working for a U.S. company while living in Mexico City might just beat living in a second-tier Chinese city teaching at a third-tier school.
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
Modernist,
I appreciate your remarks. I'm like Trump, how can I have bad international relations with someone who says such nice things about me?
On a more serious note, I think that what you say comes from years of untying that mental knot on how one can advance abroad. It's the same knot many ESL teachers start untying around the end of their first contract -- when the daily novelty of expat life loses its luster, but the routine is still desirable. ESL is a high floor and a low ceiling.
You're also correct in saying that I could go back home and teach for two years... I just don't want to. And yeah, sometimes the answer is, "Tough." Before teaching I seriously weighed the military, but I decided it was an unacceptable trade of security for autonomy. Teaching, also, has a trade-off but -- provided I can stay abroad -- the trade is acceptable to me. Nobody gets to have their cake and eat it too, though.
Right now I like the approach of seeing what's possible abroad with a provisional license. But if I have to return to the US for credentials and experience, I want to get started sooner rather than later. I'm risking a few months of my life versus $6,000 and nine months for TN, or thousands and two years for returning stateside. I do admit that provisional certificates looked like a Saul Goodman University of American Samoa Law Degree way of doing things, but seem legitimate for people still pursuing higher credentials and degrees.
I appreciate your explanation of the urban-rural barrier existing less in other countries. I lived isolated on a fairly remote island in Korea one year abroad, but as you've said, Korea's tight-knit geography is a far cry from China's sheer mass. I was always two hours' max from an urban expat area on the weekends.
Anyway, keeping this brief as it's more of a social post than asking/answering any questions. Thanks to all again, and I hope the questions I've asked will help any lurkers doing their own research. I'll periodically be checking here to see if anyone brings up points I should consider. Otherwise, I'll be credentialed with my relevant endorsements by February and then I assume I will learn a great many things about my place in today's global job market.
aleconner,
>>> "I would rather start out at a third tier school in a fun city in China or Brazil than go through a four-year credentialing program in my local public school district resulting in a provisional credential that then requires plenty of hoop-jumping to make permanent."
I think some of the criticism for the provisionally-credentialed pathway is that we literally can't teach low-tier in cities we consider livable, because those positions can still be filled by teachers with two years' experience. Doesn't hurt to try though, if you accept that you're wasting a bit of time should you ultimately have to return to the drawing well for a professional certificate.
I appreciate your remarks. I'm like Trump, how can I have bad international relations with someone who says such nice things about me?
On a more serious note, I think that what you say comes from years of untying that mental knot on how one can advance abroad. It's the same knot many ESL teachers start untying around the end of their first contract -- when the daily novelty of expat life loses its luster, but the routine is still desirable. ESL is a high floor and a low ceiling.
You're also correct in saying that I could go back home and teach for two years... I just don't want to. And yeah, sometimes the answer is, "Tough." Before teaching I seriously weighed the military, but I decided it was an unacceptable trade of security for autonomy. Teaching, also, has a trade-off but -- provided I can stay abroad -- the trade is acceptable to me. Nobody gets to have their cake and eat it too, though.
Right now I like the approach of seeing what's possible abroad with a provisional license. But if I have to return to the US for credentials and experience, I want to get started sooner rather than later. I'm risking a few months of my life versus $6,000 and nine months for TN, or thousands and two years for returning stateside. I do admit that provisional certificates looked like a Saul Goodman University of American Samoa Law Degree way of doing things, but seem legitimate for people still pursuing higher credentials and degrees.
I appreciate your explanation of the urban-rural barrier existing less in other countries. I lived isolated on a fairly remote island in Korea one year abroad, but as you've said, Korea's tight-knit geography is a far cry from China's sheer mass. I was always two hours' max from an urban expat area on the weekends.
Anyway, keeping this brief as it's more of a social post than asking/answering any questions. Thanks to all again, and I hope the questions I've asked will help any lurkers doing their own research. I'll periodically be checking here to see if anyone brings up points I should consider. Otherwise, I'll be credentialed with my relevant endorsements by February and then I assume I will learn a great many things about my place in today's global job market.
aleconner,
>>> "I would rather start out at a third tier school in a fun city in China or Brazil than go through a four-year credentialing program in my local public school district resulting in a provisional credential that then requires plenty of hoop-jumping to make permanent."
I think some of the criticism for the provisionally-credentialed pathway is that we literally can't teach low-tier in cities we consider livable, because those positions can still be filled by teachers with two years' experience. Doesn't hurt to try though, if you accept that you're wasting a bit of time should you ultimately have to return to the drawing well for a professional certificate.
Re: Requesting criticism on my plan to become qualified/competitive.
I am a bit confused about what the issue is with the MA provisional license. I recently received a masters in teaching and have a bachelors degree in the subject I teach. The only experience I had was student teaching in the US, but I was fortunate and got a job at what I consider to be a quite good school that people have told me is tier 2.
That being said, my certification is still pending and has been for many months. I’ve been given low priority for it since I don’t have a job in the states. I am considering transferring to the MA certification once I’m actually certified because I won’t have to renew it if I don’t work in MA.
I’m wondering: would this really be a hinderance moving forward compared to having a different state’s certification? And, to recruiters, is experience in a school in the US really considered to be more valuable than earning all of your experience at a tier 2 school abroad?
That being said, my certification is still pending and has been for many months. I’ve been given low priority for it since I don’t have a job in the states. I am considering transferring to the MA certification once I’m actually certified because I won’t have to renew it if I don’t work in MA.
I’m wondering: would this really be a hinderance moving forward compared to having a different state’s certification? And, to recruiters, is experience in a school in the US really considered to be more valuable than earning all of your experience at a tier 2 school abroad?
Reply
@s0830887
A professional grade credential isnt any warranty or guarantee of security in the stability in the credential. Some years ago in many DOEs lifetime credentials were prevalent and a number of DOEs restructured them away with a certain degree of grandfathering available but for others they ended up with a lot of nothing, having professional grade credentials didnt mean much of anything.
@Mencoh
Thank you, yes, I meant "uncredentialed ITs". That was a significant and substantial mistype on my account.
LW = Letter Writer. Its the member that writes the original post thats titled on the forum index as opposed to OP (Original Poster) which refers to the current posts topic. Though @Heliotrope is correct, that Im the only contributor that uses it.
The PRAXIS isnt too difficult, I doubt you will need much study time.
What exactly would be "the best estimation of true skill/knowledge"? A degree? I know far too many DTs/ITs that cant teach themselves out of box, even though some of them are brilliant in their field, the vast majority of the rest are mediocre at best, and why shouldnt they be, there is nothing in KS/K12 curriculum above 1st year UG study, its not rocket science, even when its rocket science. Edu doesnt capture the best and the brightest, most edus either cant succeed in their chosen field or cant monetize it. Credentialing then, how so, every credential has the proviso attached to it, either implicitly or explicitly that only provides that at some time in time the edu met some list of requirements and meets the 'minimum' requirements of the teaching profession. Minimum shouldnt be reassuring of anything. A 16 year old that meets the minimum requirements for a drivers license, is not too comforting. Whats the minimum mean really, that an edu didnt run screaming from the classroom during their field experience, that they can create a document and a slideshow, that they can stand up in front of a group of students and not mumble their way through a delivery. The most impactful characteristic of an edus quality is punctuality, showing up on time getting deliverables in on time, its easy to measure and quantify and its memorable, dont do anything to upset anyone and be on time and you can get through a whole career in edu just fine.
Well interns dont pay a fee currently, and I doubt youll meet the current description of an intern in terms of SAs definition. So whether its worth it for you to join is mostly academic. If they would accept you as a intern candidate, than the cost is zero and sure its worth zero coin. The only real issue is if they would accept you as a regular candidate, despite having the requisite experience. If they did or you used subterfuge to meet the experience requirement is it worth USD$225 for three years, thats a long time for access to resources and the various databases. If your interest is will joining SA get you a job or a better job than you could get on your own, USD$225 isnt a huge amount to throw away.
I tend to concur in general with @Modernist, urban and rural distinctions are usually only relevant in terms of relativity to each other. Of course that relativity can be very significant, Wuhan is very different and more rural than Shanghai. Where I disagree is that there are some ISs/DSs that hire ITs for regulated DSs in regions that would be accurately described as rural. Its not entirely accurate to claim that ISs only exist where there is coin or affluence. Intern and entry grade ITs usually have to make their bones somewhere and the develop the skills needed at the first two inflection point in a ITs career, the ISs that have to contend with those options are usually not places anyone in edu wants to be, they are hardship appointments.
ESOL doesnt really have a low ceiling, the ceiling in ESOL is putting out your own shingle and starting your own shop, which is far less tenable in terms of a IE, but I would agree if you limit yourself to working for someone else than DOS or CM is a ceiling that an ET reaches rather quickly compared to IE.
Some people get to have their cake and eat it to. Thats really why that cliche exists because some small number of individuals have achieved it and hold it out as a potential outcome for others.
@Modernist
Curriculum preference at this point is irrelevant, the LW needs experience before they can be selective, and all SLL curriculum are highly congruent.
Some ITs would like Hanoi. Im not one of them, but they do exist.
Completely agree on the trash can ISs that cater to the affluent who have the coin to assure their child of a diploma regardless of their level of ineptness among a collection of other flaws.
You could teach outside of China, Laos, Vietnam, Quatar, to name a few. If you can get an appointment in China there are ISs in those and other places that will appoint you as well.
Its not just wants vs. needs, there are ITs/DTs/ETs who have to earn coin, they dont have the luxury, nay the resources to dedicate to an academic program and much less write that check.
It can work that way, it happens, ITs do become successful, landing an easy job for big coin compared to the work they do, while having done very little to get it. People win the lottery too, thats why the dream prevails, same as the if you pay your dues, and do what leadership tell you to do youll be at some elite tier IS someday, despite that assurance of outcome not being possible.
Interesting model, an elite tier at the peak and nothing but third tier below the surface, no first tier, no second tier.
No they dont all know what a DC credential and a TN EPP/ITT program mean. Very, very, few do, there are some but at the tier that it matters most, leadership dont have a clue and dont care, if they have something that looks like a credential than its a credential. Their HR might have a more informed idea of what immigration and the MOE are looking for but rarely will the title of a credential or its grade matter in the least, could the candidate teach in the public/maintained DSs in the jurisdiction of the regulating authority, yes or no, thats all that matters.
@aleconner
An EPP/ITT program with a four year field experience, thats a rarity. I cant imagine anyone doing that and cant see why anyone would when their are far shorter programs commonly available.
ISs are growing faster than the rate of edus available even with skill and assessment pathways to a credential. The various types of permits and unqualified DT status has been around for a long time and it hasnt changed the availability and quality of DT/ITs.
I tend to agree with you both observationly and professionally that the pandemic is going to change the perception of quality remote/virtual edu in K12/KS education. This should be the time that any IT/DT seriously consider PD in virtual edu. It will address a lot of limiting factors and issues in IE both from the position of the IS and the IT. If your a remote IT you can teach in the UK, UK, AUS, CAN, Asia while living in that dream location in France, Italy, Ireland, etc. if you want, and it will be more cost effective for ISs. Reduced need for dedicated services (libraries, etc) and leadership as well as infrastructure (capital projects, etc.).
@scooter93
The issue is what you know, or more specifically what youve studied. Its not hard for a recruiter or leader to take a brief glance at the typical IT with an assessment pathway (such as the MA Provisional credential) and know you havent studied anything in edu, so what do you know, enough to pass a test, that standard doesnt say much to a recruiter or a leader. It wouldnt matter much if anything to you, someday some leader might ask why youve been working on a provisional credential for so long, and it might someday be an issue or matter. Otherwise you might want a professional credential one day and you wont be able to transition the MA Provisional credential. A better option you may want to pursue is the WA residence credential, its a professional grade credential and has the same effective lifetime validity period.
Experience in a tier 2 IS is far more marketable in IE than DE experience.
A professional grade credential isnt any warranty or guarantee of security in the stability in the credential. Some years ago in many DOEs lifetime credentials were prevalent and a number of DOEs restructured them away with a certain degree of grandfathering available but for others they ended up with a lot of nothing, having professional grade credentials didnt mean much of anything.
@Mencoh
Thank you, yes, I meant "uncredentialed ITs". That was a significant and substantial mistype on my account.
LW = Letter Writer. Its the member that writes the original post thats titled on the forum index as opposed to OP (Original Poster) which refers to the current posts topic. Though @Heliotrope is correct, that Im the only contributor that uses it.
The PRAXIS isnt too difficult, I doubt you will need much study time.
What exactly would be "the best estimation of true skill/knowledge"? A degree? I know far too many DTs/ITs that cant teach themselves out of box, even though some of them are brilliant in their field, the vast majority of the rest are mediocre at best, and why shouldnt they be, there is nothing in KS/K12 curriculum above 1st year UG study, its not rocket science, even when its rocket science. Edu doesnt capture the best and the brightest, most edus either cant succeed in their chosen field or cant monetize it. Credentialing then, how so, every credential has the proviso attached to it, either implicitly or explicitly that only provides that at some time in time the edu met some list of requirements and meets the 'minimum' requirements of the teaching profession. Minimum shouldnt be reassuring of anything. A 16 year old that meets the minimum requirements for a drivers license, is not too comforting. Whats the minimum mean really, that an edu didnt run screaming from the classroom during their field experience, that they can create a document and a slideshow, that they can stand up in front of a group of students and not mumble their way through a delivery. The most impactful characteristic of an edus quality is punctuality, showing up on time getting deliverables in on time, its easy to measure and quantify and its memorable, dont do anything to upset anyone and be on time and you can get through a whole career in edu just fine.
Well interns dont pay a fee currently, and I doubt youll meet the current description of an intern in terms of SAs definition. So whether its worth it for you to join is mostly academic. If they would accept you as a intern candidate, than the cost is zero and sure its worth zero coin. The only real issue is if they would accept you as a regular candidate, despite having the requisite experience. If they did or you used subterfuge to meet the experience requirement is it worth USD$225 for three years, thats a long time for access to resources and the various databases. If your interest is will joining SA get you a job or a better job than you could get on your own, USD$225 isnt a huge amount to throw away.
I tend to concur in general with @Modernist, urban and rural distinctions are usually only relevant in terms of relativity to each other. Of course that relativity can be very significant, Wuhan is very different and more rural than Shanghai. Where I disagree is that there are some ISs/DSs that hire ITs for regulated DSs in regions that would be accurately described as rural. Its not entirely accurate to claim that ISs only exist where there is coin or affluence. Intern and entry grade ITs usually have to make their bones somewhere and the develop the skills needed at the first two inflection point in a ITs career, the ISs that have to contend with those options are usually not places anyone in edu wants to be, they are hardship appointments.
ESOL doesnt really have a low ceiling, the ceiling in ESOL is putting out your own shingle and starting your own shop, which is far less tenable in terms of a IE, but I would agree if you limit yourself to working for someone else than DOS or CM is a ceiling that an ET reaches rather quickly compared to IE.
Some people get to have their cake and eat it to. Thats really why that cliche exists because some small number of individuals have achieved it and hold it out as a potential outcome for others.
@Modernist
Curriculum preference at this point is irrelevant, the LW needs experience before they can be selective, and all SLL curriculum are highly congruent.
Some ITs would like Hanoi. Im not one of them, but they do exist.
Completely agree on the trash can ISs that cater to the affluent who have the coin to assure their child of a diploma regardless of their level of ineptness among a collection of other flaws.
You could teach outside of China, Laos, Vietnam, Quatar, to name a few. If you can get an appointment in China there are ISs in those and other places that will appoint you as well.
Its not just wants vs. needs, there are ITs/DTs/ETs who have to earn coin, they dont have the luxury, nay the resources to dedicate to an academic program and much less write that check.
It can work that way, it happens, ITs do become successful, landing an easy job for big coin compared to the work they do, while having done very little to get it. People win the lottery too, thats why the dream prevails, same as the if you pay your dues, and do what leadership tell you to do youll be at some elite tier IS someday, despite that assurance of outcome not being possible.
Interesting model, an elite tier at the peak and nothing but third tier below the surface, no first tier, no second tier.
No they dont all know what a DC credential and a TN EPP/ITT program mean. Very, very, few do, there are some but at the tier that it matters most, leadership dont have a clue and dont care, if they have something that looks like a credential than its a credential. Their HR might have a more informed idea of what immigration and the MOE are looking for but rarely will the title of a credential or its grade matter in the least, could the candidate teach in the public/maintained DSs in the jurisdiction of the regulating authority, yes or no, thats all that matters.
@aleconner
An EPP/ITT program with a four year field experience, thats a rarity. I cant imagine anyone doing that and cant see why anyone would when their are far shorter programs commonly available.
ISs are growing faster than the rate of edus available even with skill and assessment pathways to a credential. The various types of permits and unqualified DT status has been around for a long time and it hasnt changed the availability and quality of DT/ITs.
I tend to agree with you both observationly and professionally that the pandemic is going to change the perception of quality remote/virtual edu in K12/KS education. This should be the time that any IT/DT seriously consider PD in virtual edu. It will address a lot of limiting factors and issues in IE both from the position of the IS and the IT. If your a remote IT you can teach in the UK, UK, AUS, CAN, Asia while living in that dream location in France, Italy, Ireland, etc. if you want, and it will be more cost effective for ISs. Reduced need for dedicated services (libraries, etc) and leadership as well as infrastructure (capital projects, etc.).
@scooter93
The issue is what you know, or more specifically what youve studied. Its not hard for a recruiter or leader to take a brief glance at the typical IT with an assessment pathway (such as the MA Provisional credential) and know you havent studied anything in edu, so what do you know, enough to pass a test, that standard doesnt say much to a recruiter or a leader. It wouldnt matter much if anything to you, someday some leader might ask why youve been working on a provisional credential for so long, and it might someday be an issue or matter. Otherwise you might want a professional credential one day and you wont be able to transition the MA Provisional credential. A better option you may want to pursue is the WA residence credential, its a professional grade credential and has the same effective lifetime validity period.
Experience in a tier 2 IS is far more marketable in IE than DE experience.