chances in Europe

jboeh2
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:52 pm

chances in Europe

Post by jboeh2 »

I am considering a move to teaching in Europe (preferably Holland). I have been teaching internationally for 7 years (and 3 years in New York State). I am General and Special Ed certified in the primary years. I have experience in PYP and the British & American curriculum. I also have a Master's degree.

My wife and 2 kids are dependents, though hold US and Dutch passports. Would them being Dutch citizens make a difference on permits/my chances of landing a job? I only hold a US passport. I am aware some schools mention that they only accept candidates who hold permits to work in the EU. In one sense, I'd like to get my foot in the door to gain EU residency to allow more options to work/live in Europe in the future.

I am aware taxes are higher and we'll be taking a pay cut. Being in Holland, or another EU country, my wife could work (as she's now a dependent).

What are your thoughts/suggestions for getting into a EU school? I am currently re-joining Search (as I've used them before with success).

Many thanks
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Does it have to be the 2 provinces that comprise Holland, or can it be the Netherlands in general?
Do you speak Dutch?

SA isnt going to help you much anyway. Youre basically looking at a number of ISs on the circuit you can count on one hand.
Well yes their Dutch passports will help them, the IS wont have to get them visas, but you absolutely need to get Dutch citizenship. Im assuming youve been married the requisite 3 years since you have two kids together?
Once you have that you can relocate to the Netherlands and apply to the handful of ISs, but once there assuming you can speak some Dutch you will have much better luck as a SPED/SEN/LD tutor or with Dutch DSs until one of those ISs has a vacancy for you. Your spouse is probably going to have to work as well. It would be very difficult to afford a lifestyle you are likely to be accustomed to on only one salary with a family of four.
If its anywhere in the EU than getting EU (Dutch) citizenship will be of immense benefit, so much so that its still a defacto necessity. In such a case though, with a broader job search, you very likely will have some offers to choose from and SA (among other agencies and job boards) will be of benefit to you. Though youre as likely to find a position on TES (just as an example) than you are with SA (which tends to be more AS centric).
s0830887
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:46 am

Re: chances in Europe

Post by s0830887 »

Under EU law, as the spouse of an EU citizen, you have right to residency (including right to work) with her anywhere in the EU, no restrictions on how long you've been married. I went through this with my husband last year, you do have to provide a few documents depending on the country, but mostly it's a simple matter of registering at the foreign police. Way easier than getting a visa. Idk why PsyGuy is talking about citizenship, that takes years of residency to get.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: chances in Europe

Post by Heliotrope »

s0830887 wrote:
> citizenship,
> that takes years of residency to get.

If you've been married to a Dutch citizen for more than three years (in The Netherlands or abroad), you can get citizenship. No need for years of residency.
jboeh2
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:52 pm

Re: chances in Europe

Post by jboeh2 »

@HeliotropeI thought I had to live in the Netherlands for 5 years first to gain citizenship. My wife cannot sponsor me, so I'd be looking at possibly working there 5 years.

@s0830887 so to clarify, if a school says you need to hold a visa that allows you to work in the EU, I can still apply since I am married to a Dutch citizen?

@PsyGuy I do hope to gain Dutch citizenship over time. We have been married over 10 years, so we do meet that requirement.

Thanks
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: chances in Europe

Post by Heliotrope »

jboeh2 wrote:
> @HeliotropeI thought I had to live in the Netherlands for 5 years first to
> gain citizenship. My wife cannot sponsor me, so I'd be looking at possibly
> working there 5 years.

What do you mean by "My wife cannot sponsor me"?
If your wife is Dutch and you've been married for 3 years (doesn't have to be in The Netherlands), you qualify, and you don't need to live in The Netherlands for 5 years to gain citizenship. You can start the paperwork tomorrow.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@jboeh2

You do need years, three, 3 years. You do not need to be resident in the Netherlands to qualify for citizenship, you can be abroad. You can start your application for Dutch citizenship now.

There is some validity to @s0830887. As a spouse/partner of an EU citizen you have a right to work and live in the EU immediately. However, in terms of work, each country has various documenting requirements you have to meet. This is the problem your going to have with ISs. You dont have the work permit or residence permit or anything else to show them. You apply with one of those Dutch ISs or anywhere else in the EU and your story isnt something you can attach or upload. You need an interview, youre not living their, and they are just going to think your going to be more work than your worth and that the paperwork might not happen or get approved, or it will take to long, and thats if they think anything at all because the screening question is usually something along the lines of "Are you a EU citizen or have a current work permit for X country?", you arent either of those things and youre not there. Just get your Dutch citizenship and passport and then youre fine.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

Heliotrope wrote:
> If your wife is Dutch and you've been married for 3 years (doesn't have to be in The
> Netherlands), you qualify, and you don't need to live in The Netherlands for 5 years
> to gain citizenship. You can start the paperwork tomorrow.

Then, in the next reply:

PsyGuy wrote:
> You do need years, three, 3 years. You do not need to be resident in the
> Netherlands to qualify for citizenship, you can be abroad. You can start
> your application for Dutch citizenship now.


Oscar Wilde once said that "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness."
So I guess I should feel flattered. Hmmm.
peachestotulips
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:24 am

Re: chances in Europe

Post by peachestotulips »

I recently went through the tedious bureaucracy in the Netherlands to get my 5 year residence permit through my spouse. As long as your family meets the income requirements and you have the supporting documents then you should qualify. With the residence permit you can live and work in the Netherlands. You don't have to be married for any specific amount of time. You don't need to have citizenship to teach and live in NL, only the residence permit. You don't need to speak Dutch in order to get the permit. However if you want to renew your permit after 5 years you have to take and pass basic Dutch before it expires.

If you and your wife have bank statements that show you have sustainable or sufficient income based on their required amounts for over a year, or an employment contract that is valid for another 12 months from the time of your application you will also qualify. If you can show proof of income then you can get a permit to live and work in NL.
https://ind.nl/en/Pages/required-amount ... mit_family

If you haven't already, go through the IND site to see exactly what you need for your family's personal situation.
https://ind.nl/en/family/residence-perm ... rtner.aspx

One thing that is required of all Dutch international schools is to have your degree recognized by DUO. Do this when your residence permit is processing because it takes a few months as well. It can also put you at a slight advantage in the event a school needs an immediate hire because of DUOs processing times.
https://duo.nl/particulier/foreign-dipl ... eacher.jsp

Even though ISA, ISH, and UWC have the most popular reputations in NL there are a lot of quality international schools in the country that will never use agencies like Search, ISS, or GRC to recruit. Here is a great start to find other international schools:
https://www.dutchinternationalschools.nl/
Also, there's a large network of vrijescholen in NL which are basically Waldorf/Steiner schools, many which have an international focus.
https://www.vrijescholen.nl/

As a spouse of a Dutch citizen just keep in mind that you'll be a local hire and won't get all the benefits of an overseas hire package. Your family has roots in NL so if this is where you want to be then focus on getting your residence permit first and the rest will fall into place. ❤️
jboeh2
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:52 pm

Re: chances in Europe

Post by jboeh2 »

Thank you all for your information. Europe in general is not as easy or straightforward as other destinations we have been to. @peachestotulips, we have looked into a permit through spouse before, yet due to not living there and not meeting all the requirements, that has not been an option. We are looking on going anywhere in the EU for now (would love the Netherlands, if possible). We'll be looking for a job, based on my credentials, yet was hoping having my family from within the EU would be a benefit/make it easier. I'll look more through the sites you sent. Thank you very much.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: chances in Europe

Post by Heliotrope »

@jboeh2

So I guess that means you're not interested in acquiring the Dutch nationality, in addition to your US nationality?
Or do you think there's something that would make you ineligible? (since only real requirement is being married for 3 years to a Dutch person)
Having that nationality would make it all a lot easier, although I can understand getting a second nationality isn't something someone would decide to do lightheartedly.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discusion

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Then prior to your post I had written "but you absolutely need to get Dutch citizenship. Im assuming youve been married the requisite 3 years since you have two kids together?" Requisite 3 years.

@jboeh2

Its a much more complex process meeting the requirements for a residency permit through marriage as @peachestotulips indicated if you dont want to get the Dutch citizenship. You dont have to, you meet the requirement for a Dutch passport/citizenship, which only require you be married 3 years, residence in the Netherlands is not required.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Discusion

Post by Heliotrope »

@PsyGuy

I'm not saying you can't mention something again if it serves a purpose – I did that myself, since in response to your first comment @s0830887 said you were wrong, where I knew you were actually right about the 3 years.

But then you two comments later you repeated a paragraph of mine in the very next comment almost exactly, all 4 parts to it, in the exact same order. Didn't seem like a coincidence, and didn't seem to serve a purpose other than wanting to be heard. I thought it was amusing and odd - mostly odd.

I only mentioned it because I've often seen you repeat other members comments as well, lately more than before even. You just rephrase what others have just written and don't add anything of your own. Perhaps out of some need to be the last one to comment on a post, perhaps for some other reason.
Of course everyone is free to add comments that don't add much to the conversation – I've done it myself as well, more than once.
jboeh2
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:52 pm

Re: chances in Europe

Post by jboeh2 »

@Hellotrope, I would be interested in acquiring Dutch Nationality eventually. I'm assuming I can start the process at a foreign Dutch Embassy? The process would be through Naturalisation, correct?

As we are looking into moving next year, it doesn't seem like the easiest time to start the process. But, I will certainly look into it. Does anyone know how long the process takes in total?

Thanks
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@jboeh2

You would apply through Naturalization. The IND is the department that handles your application but you need to be resident in the Netherlands to apply and you need to be proficient in Dutch (there are a number of ways to qualify). The application process takes about a year. While there you would still be able to live and work on a residence permit, if you needed to develop your Dutch. You can apply as soon as you are resident in the Netherlands (assuming you meet the Dutch language requirement). You do not need to remain resident while your application is in process.
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