Take it or wait for a better one.

Banter1584
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:29 pm

Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by Banter1584 »

Hello, Everybody

Some advice needed or if anyone has ever experienced my situation, some insight and advice would be much appreciated.

I have an offer from a IB school in Singapore (my dream location), but the salary (below 6000 SGD), housing allowance (2000 SGD) and healthcare insurance are considerably below my expectations. If it was any other location I would not even think about it. The school has given me till Wednesday, of next week to accept the offer or it will be offered to the second choice candidate.

However, I have been shortlisted for one of my dream schools in the same area, with considerably better, terms and conditions. The interview for this school will be Friday next week with a final decision at least a couple of days later.

Should I accept the offer from the first school? As I understand with COVID and the increased difficulty of getting into Singapore as foreign workers, I should be grateful in getting an offer at all!

However, should I reject the offer and wait for what happens with the second school? This of course will mean the offer from the first school being withdrawn, and there is a possibility that I wont get the position, which means that I have to start from scratch again in the job search…

Should I even tell the second school that I already have an offer? Will it change anything from their part?

Some advice would be much appreciated!

Thank you!
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by Heliotrope »

I would definitely tell the second school the situation: that you prefer them over the Singapore school, that their offer expires on Wednesday, and ask if they can reschedule the interview to Tuesday. If they're keen to hire you they will likely reschedule if their schedule allows it.
I've done the exact same: asked to reschedule, interviewed a week earlier, and got offered the job right after the interview.
I also once told a school that made me an offer and gave me a deadline that I couldn't make that deadline (because of another interview), and asked if they could extend the deadline. They did, but the other interview went well and I took that job. Of course some schools will not extend a deadline, or even withdraw the offer because their ego is bruised.

Do you know how many other candidates they have for the position? Or you one of two, or one of many?
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Take the offer you have, but in such a way that it only sounds like youre accepting the offer. Write a new email to them like "Thank you, I would very much like to work with you in the future.". Then do the other ISs interview, if they make an offer and you accept it, then just wait until the first IS contacts you for whatever reason, and write them back "Oh, Im sorry, I never received the (contract or offer or confirmation or followup, or write them back immediately that they havent followed up), I'm sorry Im pursuing other opportunities." Its not like the first IS is really out much, they lost a week, they will just contact the number 2 (or possibly the number 3) candidate and hire them. So what if that week meant they a lost the number 2 candidate, thats business, your not a partner of the IS, your just an employee, they arent giving you stock or profit sharing, or anything else beyond a set amount of coin for a set amount or work.

The advice of @Heliotrope sounds great and it could actually work out that way, but you have no idea if any of that is going to happen in your favor and your giving up control of the scenario to someone else because reasons. The more you control the decisions, the more you control the narrative, the more you control the outcomes.
teachermum
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:45 pm

Re: Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by teachermum »

I would do as the first poster suggested, tell the second school you have an offer and request an earlier interview. Ask the first school to give you a bit longer to make a decision. The option Psyguy suggested is risky and unethical in my opinion.
fine dude
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: SE Asia

Re: Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by fine dude »

Depends on how competitive the second school is. If it is one of the top 3 Sg schools, you may not get a job right after the first or second interview. You can ask them to reschedule, but if they refuse 8K is not a great salary as most school health insurance policies are sub-par and you'll be paying out of your pocket. 2K housing is meagre.
secondplace
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by secondplace »

Do what @heliotrope suggested.

Don't do what @psyguy suggests - it's unethical, immoral and if a school were to act that way you would rightly be outraged.

Good luck.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

Telling ISs and asking for extensions is risky as well, and its risk your putting in some one elses hands. Its the middle of a zombie holocaust your in a bunker with 5 other people you know nothing about, and you have a gun, one of the other people with you says give me the gun I know better how to use it, Im a security guard (or police officer or deputy or a military officer whatever). You can only make decisions when youre in control, if you give them the gun they could do anything thy could shoot you and everyone else you dont know and you cant make those decisions any more, if you give them the gun they get to make those decisions. This is the same thing your surrendering your decision making ability to an IS/recruiter. They could do anything, they could say no, they could withdraw their offers, you have no idea what they will do. The only choice that keeps control of the outcomes that happen to you are keeping the decisions to yourself. As long as you decide to take or not take the first offer, interview with the second IS and possibly accept the second ISs offer and everything that outcomes with it, those outcomes are yours to decide only as long as you control the decisions regarding them.

Sure that has risks, but the risks are better then the risks that come with asking or telling.

ISs do that all the time. Theres nothing unethical or immoral. If you were a computer programmer and you took a job with Acme and Apple or Google came by and offered you your dream job youd be considered dumb not to take it, its the same way in any other field, engineering, medicine, business, etc. Smart people change when given new data and better options. Youre with a group out socializing your colleagues dare you to walk a section of train track, you agree, and as your doing so you hear the blaring of the train coming, are you going to stay on, get hit by a train because you accepted the dare or are you going to move out of the way? There might be a higher road if that mentality was one sided, but again ISs do this ALL the time, need proof go read the IS and leadership reviews side of this site.

The salary isnt 8K, its BELOW 6K.
secondplace
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by secondplace »

@psyguy - if I give my word, and/or sign a contract, I keep it.

That's all there is to it.

Do I hope others do the same? Yes. Do I expect they always will? Sadly, no.

Am I happy? Yes.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

@secondplace

The world needs more people like you, theres only one of you born every minute.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Comment

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @secondplace
>
> The world needs more people like you, theres only one of you born every
> minute.


Ridicule people for having a moral center is kind of sad.

I haven't heard of ISs going back on their word after promising a candidate the job is theirs. I'm sure there have been some instances where it did happen, but I believe it's not as widespread as you imply. And if IT and IS both start doing this more often arguing that the other group 'also does it', that is the start of a downward spiral.

@Banter1584
Even if you're considering following PsyGuy's advice, you can always try to reschedule the interview first. If they say no, you can then still join the dark side, if your morals allow you.
secondplace
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by secondplace »

PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Isnt ridiculing anyone in general pretty sad?

I have, the review section of this site has many report of such behavior. If anything its underrepresented. That only matters to those on the inside curve of the spiral.

Not really they would be tipping their hand if they did.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Discussion

Post by Heliotrope »

@PsyGuy

We disagree
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by shadowjack »

Quite honestly, do you WANT to work at a school with a lowball SG salary and benefits? Why - you won't enjoy Singapore and will come to resent the school.

That said, let them know you have an interview with School B. You can ask for an earlier interview, but I have had positions where doing so made schools cut me of entirely. I would simply ask School A to delay. You will have a sense from School B about how things go after your first interview. There are no guarantees - you can have 3 great interviews going up the food chain and lose out on the job after talking to the very top guy where, again, you have a great interview. Why? Who knows.

Good luck!
Banter1584
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: Take it or wait for a better one.

Post by Banter1584 »

Thank you all for the advice given.

In the end, I rejected the offer given to me by the first school as even if I accepted it, my enjoyment of Singapore will turn to just surviving in Singapore as shadowjack said. I will save very little which will put my early retirement and investment targets in the backseat, which in my late 30s I need to consider.

The first school were disappointed, but respected my decision, but I cannot deny the words of PsyGuy did cross my mind, but in the end I just could not do it, perhaps being too moral in this business may cloud your practical judgement too much.

I am still waiting for the second school to get back to me to see if I made it to the final round, if I don't get it the search continues, if the worst comes to the worst.....then there is always...... BASIS........




[quote=shadowjack post_id=59747 time=1601307473 user_id=98854]
Quite honestly, do you WANT to work at a school with a lowball SG salary and benefits? Why - you won't enjoy Singapore and will come to resent the school.

That said, let them know you have an interview with School B. You can ask for an earlier interview, but I have had positions where doing so made schools cut me of entirely. I would simply ask School A to delay. You will have a sense from School B about how things go after your first interview. There are no guarantees - you can have 3 great interviews going up the food chain and lose out on the job after talking to the very top guy where, again, you have a great interview. Why? Who knows.

Good luck!
[/quote]
Post Reply