How to resign and transfer my visa?

idonteven
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 am

How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by idonteven »

I'm at a school in China, and for various reasons am unhappy with my current school. I also have an offer from another better school, if I sign now they can give me a month to go there.

I've read and re-read my contract with my current school, and somehow can't find any information about how much advance notice I'm required to give before leaving.

And of course asking my boss/colleagues isn't great, because if it turns out my contract doesn't allow me to leave this year, it will be awkward working with them for the rest of the year (I'm not going to pull a runner, especially because I need this school to release my work permit to the other school).

My school is part of a well-known chain, so I assume they must have some established policy on this. Should I create a new e-mail account and ask their HR? It is time-sensitive if I'm going to get into this other school, which I'm really hoping to do. Help!
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by sid »

It’s probably in the staff handbook or HR manual, both of which should be freely available to all staff. Try asking for those docs, or whatever your school calls them, rather than asking your specific question and raising flags too early.
But I wouldn’t be too hopeful. Most schools don’t offer you the chance to resign whenever you want- they tie it to academic years to minimize disruption.
idonteven
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by idonteven »

I've gone through all 39 pages of my staff handbook. Stuff like maternity leave, sick leave, etc. is in there but nothing about employees who wish to end the contract for other reasons. Also read through my Chinese labor contract and ELOA (employment letter of acceptance), they both say nothing about this.
idonteven
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by idonteven »

A separate document from my school given this summer given to all OSH staff, heavily paraphrased:

“This is an unprecedented time and you may have signed a contract when global circumstances were drastically different than they are now. We’re offering teachers who no longer feel comfortable teaching at our school due to changes caused by the pandemic the opportunity to resign in good standing.”

-The letter was sent in early June and employees who signed it and returned within about 1 week were given an additional departure stipend paid in July.

-Employees could also sign it after the 1-week deadline and resign in good standing but would not receive the additional stipend.

However, there’s no hard date given on a deadline for resignation in good standing (just the stipend). Is it worth it trying to use this, or is the obvious implication that this offer is void once classes start?
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by sid »

I don’t think that’s going to pass muster.
There might not be an option for resigning mid contract. That would explain why it’s not in the handbook- it doesn’t exist.
It doesn’t at my current school, though our handbook does have a line about teachers sometimes having emerging life situations that require them to depart mid contract, and to see their principal if that’s the case. For us, if you do this for a reason such as a parent requiring care, we’ll negotiate a deal, but you’d probably lose certain benefits- depends on all sorts of factors about how long you’ve been with us already, how serious the situation is, how reasonable you’re able to be about a smooth transition, etc. A compassionate case deserves a compassionate response from the school. For your case, we’d just consider that you’re quitting and you’d lose everything. You’d even have to pay recruitment costs. The basic premise being that if you’re leaving for mercenary reasons, greener grass, you’ll get a commensurate response.
fangpiren
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:34 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by fangpiren »

You are going to have to get their permission no matter what it says in the contract in order to transfer your visa.
idonteven
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by idonteven »

sid wrote:
> I don’t think that’s going to pass muster.
> There might not be an option for resigning mid contract. That would explain
> why it’s not in the handbook- it doesn’t exist.
> It doesn’t at my current school, though our handbook does have a line about
> teachers sometimes having emerging life situations that require them to
> depart mid contract, and to see their principal if that’s the case. For us,
> if you do this for a reason such as a parent requiring care, we’ll
> negotiate a deal, but you’d probably lose certain benefits- depends on all
> sorts of factors about how long you’ve been with us already, how serious
> the situation is, how reasonable you’re able to be about a smooth
> transition, etc. A compassionate case deserves a compassionate response
> from the school. For your case, we’d just consider that you’re quitting and
> you’d lose everything. You’d even have to pay recruitment costs. The basic
> premise being that if you’re leaving for mercenary reasons, greener grass,
> you’ll get a commensurate response.

I appreciate your candor and I suspected this might be the case, but I'll push back a bit on the mercenary comment. It's true that the other school would pay substantially more and that adds to my motivation. However:

1. I was hired to teach a particular high school subject, and literally the day before classes started I was asked to teach two different high school-level subject classes (10 periods/week) that I have no preparation or experience in (in addition to what I was hired for). I've been burning the midnight oil every night (including weekends) trying to do the best I can to both learn the material myself and make half-decent lesson plans, but I still feel like I'm not doing an adequate job (because, you know, they are not subjects I'm familiar with). And if I'm going to be putting in 14-hour days, I want to at least get paid for it.

Other teachers are also carrying an extra load, but they are doing it in lower level classes where the content itself isn't an obstacle. For what it's worth, we're in this position because another teacher had to leave for a legitimate emergency. I also like my colleagues and boss well enough on a personal level. But given we're already on a skeleton crew, I'm not sure how they could manage if I left. Which makes me think they won't allow it if they can help it. I have real empathy for the school's predicament, but this is not what I signed up for.

2. They were misleading about how close my apartment is to the school and the transportation options to and from.

3. I recently found out what my apartment rents for and it's less than half the price of what the person I interviewed with (not my direct superior) told me. I'm actually happy with it other than its location, so maybe it could be considered a moot point. But I find it weird and discouraging that they would lie about something like that.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by sid »

I do have sympathy for you, absolutely. This isn’t what any of us signed up for, not even close. Everyone at my school, me included, has excellent cause to say “not what I signed up for”. We’re all pushed to the limit. Things are gradually improving for us, but these first weeks have been rough. Probably the roughest I’ve seen in my career, but it’s been a long career and there’s a lot of apples and oranges to balance.
Personal sympathy aside, don’t expect your school’s sympathy to be large enough to make this easy for you. They won’t be saying “that’s awesome- you found a way to make your life better and we’re thrilled for you. Let us throw a going away . even while we’re frantically trying to figure out how to deal with the ways in which your departure makes our lives worse.” Fair or not fair, who can judge, but your perspective is not the only valid perspective.
For the record, getting assigned different classes is a rite of passage in the international world. The things I’ve taught over the years... my god, it’s an inexplicable assortment with no relation to my actual qualifications. Just this year I narrowly escaped getting grade 10 biology, which proves what a pickle our school was in to even consider it. Give it your best go and add it to your book one day.
Good luck. I really mean that.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Resign with your IS now. @Sid is full of bunk. First youre not a slave, if you dont have contract specifications requiring a set date and time frame for resignations and terms that specify damages for breaking those conditions (such as recruiting costs) than the terms resort to the labor law. You are not stuck in the job. You can generally resign with 30 days advance notice (3 days if your considered on probation). You owe the IS nothing (especially since there is no contract detailing other damages). You do not need your IS to accept your resignation or approve it.
Second, you are also entitled to a pro rated amount of any bonus for the time you did work.
Third, assuming thy arent pissed off so much they are willing to talk you have two pieces of leverage. Make it clear from go that youre leaving, in exchange for a mutual release and/or early release you have 1) Severance, if your IS turns around and dismisses you on the spot they owe you 30 days severance. 2) Whatever, if any your prorated bonus would be. You should be immediately prepared to leave whatever housing youre in if its provided housing, though technically housing is also severance, and if they want to force you to leave they have to go through the eviction process and proper notice. The bonus isnt worth much this early in the contract, agreeing to a separation date that allows you to keep them from being abandoned and allows you time to pack and move and arrange travel is where you want to be.
Fourth, you need to talk to your new IS about your visa and work permit. Your IS isnt going to like what youve done, they arent going to release you, and likely will leave you kicking in the wind out of spite. Youre new IS is going to have to get you a new work permit. You need to have this all worked out in advance.
Fifth, when your ready just pull the trigger. Go to your IS in the morning allow an hour before your report time, put the notice in your supervisors hands and afterward send the notice by personal email (not your IS email). Be prepare for an abrasive discussion. Prior to that you want all your personal property in your room and elsewhere at the IS packed up and either ready to go or already removed. You should have alternative accommodations prepared in advance.

But the "may not be an option for resigning mid contract. That would explain why it’s not in the handbook- it doesn’t exist.", is absolute bunk.

As to your reasons, I concur with @Sid, getting asked to teach outside your contract or your area of expertise isnt uncommon, its important though to understand that that is an ask, and you can say no and you can negotiate additional compensation. You have no obligation to do anything outside your contract and if you didnt sign an amendment to that, you can go back and decline doing the additional work. Which is something to consider, you could go at this hard. Prepare resignation for cause in advance for rescission for non-fault the contract with the additional work and classes that were not in the agreement and you can not reach a mutual resolution. The IS would then owe you 30 days severance, you can then use that to negotiate a separation agreement OR and consider this, the issues really about coin, whats the price tag for the IS to make you happy with the extra work and duties, the apartment location and the extra commute? If they say no, okay you have another IS in the wings, separate, theyre taking advantage of you and abusing their position. If they do produce your wish list, then maybe better the devil you know than the one you dont.
Your other reasons dont really amount to anything, they might not have lied at all, there are numerous valid reasons for the disparity in location and rental rate.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by sid »

Clearly PG and I disagree, and there’s no point getting into the nitty gritty there. PG doesn’t argue in the academic sense, he fights in the playground sense.
Anyway, what is worth mentioning to you is to look at your contract and labor law carefully. Don’t presume an extra class is a broken contract. One, your contract may or may not specify what you’ll be teaching. Often they just say “teacher” without level or subject. Two, you’ve already agreed to the extra back when they asked and you started doing it. You’re not in a position now to claim they broke the contract. The rule of thumb is that if you didn’t object when it happened, your window closed on that option.
Local labor law may allot you the right to quit. But if you need your school’s permission to change visa, quitting isn’t your real hurdle. Of course you can quit, anyone can quit. The real question is whether quitting provides a pathway to what you really want.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by shadowjack »

Here is my take. If you are looking to leave NOW, your school is going to play hardball. They can't replace you. Heck, they couldn't replace the person you are doing the extra work replacing. It is going to get messy - basically you are saying 'screw you' to the school. And if this is your first year there, you are never going to get a transfer of visa.

Here is likely what you'll be told: "Sorry, X, but when colleague Y had an emergency, we really had no choice in the matter. We're sorry you had to take on the higher level classes, but you were the best qualified/most experienced person to do so. You signed on for two years and it's only been X amount of time. In light of our students' and school's needs, we can't release you. You need to honor your contract."

You can go the PG route, but your admin has nothing in the tank to replace you - you are it. If you just want to get out of the school, then quit. But don't expect you'll be staying around China or getting a transfer approval from your school.
idonteven
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:37 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by idonteven »

shadowjack wrote:

> You can go the PG route, but your admin has nothing in the tank to replace
> you - you are it. If you just want to get out of the school, then quit. But
> don't expect you'll be staying around China or getting a transfer approval
> from your school.

Yeah, the last part of this is what seems to be the roadblock. I can't remember if I specified this or not, but the other school I want to go to is also in China. From what I've been told, I need a cancellation and release letter from my current school otherwise no school in China can get me a visa.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Disscussion

Post by PsyGuy »

Only data matters, its very much in the academic sense.

You do need to check your contract as it probably does just say "teacher" but Its not an issue of an extra class, its what the classes are and what the meting of minds was. You didnt sign up for what the IS pushed on you. That is why this isnt a breach of contract its rescission for non-fault (which the IS would still owe you severance under).
What is an academic sense is your contract unless youve signed an addendum or a revised contract for the extra work or change in work, than there is no "rule of thumb" as @Sid describes, thats just their rule, and it mans nothing. You were being a good employee and not being insubordinate, but now as the new tasks have unfolded thy are outside the scope of the agreement. Unless and until you sign a a revised or amendment agreement, youre window hasnt close on anything. Claims by a leadership to the contrary, are just that claims, at least in an academic sense.

I agree with @SJ, your IS is going to pay hardball, thats what I wrote in my fourth point above.
As to @SJs points:
"we really had no choice in the matter"; Yes they did, they choose to make their problem your problem.
"We're sorry you had to take on the higher level classes"; No they arent.
"you were the best qualified/most experienced person to do so"; So, an emergency on their part doesnt constitute an obligation on your part. This isnt a mission or a crusade, its not a cause, its work, an exchange of set tasks for set compensation.
"You signed on for two years and it's only been X amount of time."; That agreement is governed by the PRC labor laws, which permit you to leave with 30 days notice.
"In light of our students' and school's needs"; In light of the ITs needs students and school rank way down there on the scale. No one ever talks about the ITs needs.
"we can't release you"; Dont need their permission.
"You need to honor your contract."; The IS needs to honor the contract and that includes both the law and the spirit of the contract. The contract isnt a suicide pact.

You dont need a (Z) visa. You have a residence permit. Initially you got a Z visa based on a work permit and an offer of employment. You then entered China on the Z visa AND THEN you got a resident permit for foreigner. That resident permit allows you to live in China and enter and leave for the duration. The only way that gets canceled is if you let your IS do that by giving them your passport. DONT give them your passport.
What you need from your new IS is a work permit, thats what allows you to work in China. The resident permit lets you live in China, the work permit lets you work for a specific employer. China dissolved the old system that employed the alien work permit and foreign experts license. Those dont exist anymore. Now theres just a tier (A, B,C) that details the process of applying for a work permit. You are probably tier B. So what matters is if your IS can sponsor/obtain a work permit for you, and being released from your current IS really isnt part of the application process anymore.
This is why you need to contact the new IS, because it doesnt matter what the contributors on this forum think, or what your current IS says, the only factor that matters, the ONLY issue is if your new IS can obtain a work permit for you.
Even if you do need a release letter too transfer your work permit (transferring a work permit really isnt a thing), which you might thats possible. It has no effect on your resident permit unless you submit your passport for canceling, DONT do that. Why, because you can still live in China and process a new work permit by applying anew through HK for example, if they require you to exit and enter the PRC again.
All of this though depends on your new IS, they may very well have relationships or other pathways that getting a new work permit for you is easy.
nycgtr
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 1:15 pm

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by nycgtr »

Chinese labor law is strict and transparent when it comes to contract cancellation--they can require no more than 30 days, and no matter what have to give you the release letter to transfer your visa/work permit. In the larger and more western city(ies) SAEFA will work with you to make it happen. Since your employer is already losing face by you departing for a better job, and can still drag their feet and find other ways to be a pain in the ass, your plan A should be working it out collegially with them.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Repy

Post by PsyGuy »

@nycgtr

That sounds great but thats theory not practice. Collegiality is going to amount to the IS being pissed, and doing a whole lot of nothing out of spite. You can stand there and say 30 days is the limit and you have to give a release, and they can then toss you out and give you nothing. The LW has a narrow window to get to the new job and be able to start working legally, they arent going to be able to wait for the originating IS to do what they are suppose to do, and they arent going to be motivated in any way to help the IT out. @SJ is right, they have nothing in the tank, its throwing the IS overboard without a life jacket in the middle of the big blue. There just isnt a scenario where the IT leaves and everyone is happy, the IS will be stuck with a hole in their schedule they cant fill. Thats why the entirety of the success for going forward is if the new IS can get a work permit for the LW in an acceptable time frame, regardless of conditions. It isnt worth anything if 3 or 6 or 12 months later the LW finally gets their way, by then the new job will be filled with someone else.
Who are we kidding though, the new IS knows whats going on, they have to have some sort of inkling that the LW is leaving the original IS under less that mutually acceptable conditions, and they have to have a strategy for that, meaning they have already determined that they can get a new work permit, regardless of the circumstances, release letter or not. To that end the new IS knows or again, has an inkling, of what situation they are leaving the old IS in, they are more complicit than innocent here, they know they are poaching an IT, theyre just desperate and dont really care that much.
If the leadership of the IS is a westerner, they care a lot less about face than a local leader would. Its not the same degree of motivating influence as it would be for a local.
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