How to resign and transfer my visa?

shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by shadowjack »

"Permit you to leave after 30 days notice". Great - goodbye. Happy flight back. Everything else - not our problem. And let the gears turn - and they won't turn fast.

The original IS is going to slow walk everything. 30 days. OK. Release letter - we have to vet it with our legal team. Someone was sick. Oh, paperwork submission needed from you - etc etc etc.

It might not get to that - but an IS can be very creative in how it applies sanctions without applying sanctions.
reisgio
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:17 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by reisgio »

I am so sorry that you have to work in China.
PsyGuy
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Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

The LW can stay in China for the duration of their resident permit, they do not have to fly back, unless they let the IS cancel the resident permit, this is avoided by not giving the old IS your passport.

Otherwise yes, the IS can do all kinds of bad things to make life difficult, and there isnt going to be a civil separation, which is why the success of this plan going forward hinges on the new IS being able to secure a new work permit regardless of the circumstances the old IS is left in, and regardless of the old ISs cooperation.
Psychometrika
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Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by Psychometrika »

OP, you might be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire on this one. There is no guarantee the potential new school will stick to their word, on classes or housing or otherwise, either.

Keep in mind they are knowingly and willingly poaching you from another school in a time of crisis. This speaks volumes about their attitude towards respecting contracts including the one the are offering you in an attempt to lure you away.

Nothing you posted about your current school sounds like a leave in the middle of the year dealbreaker to me given the circumstances of this year. I know the pain of having classes switched at the last moment, but as others have mentioned this is not unusual for IE, and this year in particular will be crazy as schools are desperate to fill slots.

I don’t know the full circumstances you are in, but personally I would stick with the devil I know (unless things are truly intolerable) and stick it out for at least a year rather than roll the dice on a new place in the middle of a pandemic.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

The 14 hour days, teaching courses the IT didnt sign up for is a deal breaker, it would be for me and it is for the LW. 'Pandemic' isnt carte blanche for an IS to disregard contracts, agreements and generally do what ever they rationalize as 'the best interests of the IS and students'.

The new IS may very well not stick to anything thy say either, but thats true of any IS, but a maybe is better than where the LW is at we know they dont have any significant regard for the IT and scheduling, etc. At least here the LW has a promise of more coin.
Psychometrika
Posts: 74
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Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by Psychometrika »

The residence permit is also tied to your work permit. If you quit your job you have 30 days to transfer your residence permit and get a new work permit from your new employer or get a tourist visa (which may not even be an option now) if you want to stay in country. There is also a 30-day humanitarian visa you can get to help with this. This is probably why the new school is giving you 30 days to make this happen.

In normal times this is not usually a big deal and is doable even if the old employer hates you. However, at the moment the various Plan B options (tourist visa, making a visa run to HK) are not viable so if you hit a snag your only choice might be to leave the country and start over. As such, jumping ship is a risky maneuver right now, so I would be really careful before making the leap.
chemteacher101
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Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by chemteacher101 »

Whatever you do, please do share the outcome. It'd be interesting to see how this works out.
PsyGuy
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Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@Psychometrika

No its not. That 30 days, it only happens if you allow the IS to cancel the residence permit, this is avoided by not giving them your passport. You dont have to transfer your residence permit at all. Theres nothing to transfer. All the residence permit has other than control and ID numbers is the name, date of issue, date of expiration, place of issue, and purpose of residence (there is a note section as well). There is nothing to transfer or 30 day deadline or anything else for that matter. Its a myth perpetuated by the IE and EE industry to control ITs and ETs, its fear mongering. The only truth to it is if you give your passport to the IS they can have the resident permit canceled (you could do the same thing yourself), and that prior to the 2017 changes your Z visa, foreign expert certificate and work permit were all intertwined. Combined these allowed you to live and work in China and were linked to your employer. Thats not true any more. Avoiding this issue now is simple, dont give the IS your passport, no problem to solve. The LW only needs a new work permit. The LW can live in China until the date of expiry on the resident permit.

No, they are giving the IT 30 days because thats the length of notice the IT has to give.

There really isnt much risk if any, the new IS has already determined they can get a new work permit for the IT, otherwise they wouldnt be going through the work of recruiting them.
sid
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Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by sid »

Interesting theory, but the IS doesn’t need your passport to cancel your visa. That’s the normal route, but it’s not required. Cancellation happens with the stroke of a key on a computer. It is meant to be also recorded in the passport, but the cancellation happens regardless.
It does give me interesting visions of non compliant expats strutting around, chest out, singing “nah nah Na Na nah, you can’t get me”. But no, China doesn’t work that way.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

Yes it does work that way. You dont have a visa, as in Z visa anyway. You have a resident permit and a working permit. The IS can cancel the working permit, thats why the LW has to ensure the new IS can get them a new work permit, but not the resident permit. Its an interesting facade of an ISs HR department being all powerful but no, it just doesnt work that way.
sid
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by sid »

It’s not the IS that has the power, it’s the government. They issue and cancel in their system. And they won’t be stopped by a little thing like a foreigner playing “hide the passport”. The school will inform the government that the person is no longer employed and has absconded with their passport. The government will conclude that this person no longer has a right or reason to hang around in China, and they will tap the keys that take it all away. The next time this person shows their ID to an official, in a new visa application, at a traffic stop, at the border, the system will flash red, and interesting questions will start flying. Doesn’t sound like fun to me.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

No they wont. The government doesnt cancel a resident permit because an employee left their job. The employee isnt absconding with anything, its their passport. The government will conclude the work permit issued is no longer applicable and will invalidate it, which has all of zero to do with their resident permit. The individual gets to keep their resident permit, gets to continue living in China and their will be no red flashing anything and no interesting questions.
sid
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Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by sid »

This whole thing is making me laugh.
Picture the equivalent situation in the UK, the US, or anywhere really.
A foreigner’s right to live and work in the UK is under review. The foreigner is asked to participate in the process but instead hides under their blanket. The inexorable forces of government and the law keep going. They do not grind to a halt in the face of this stunning maneuver. They simply laugh and proceed. And the foreigner loses any opportunity to contribute or present their side. The government does not assume the foreigner has some amazing reasons for behaving this way. They examine what they are given by those who do participate. And they are told this foreigner quit their job and is no longer cooperating with the employer or the government. So what does the UK government do? Same as the US, same as China.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

No, the laughable part is you attempting to equate two things, two groups as the same. The employer and the government are not one in the same. Cooperating with the government is expected and mandatory, cooperating with the employer is not. The IT doesnt have to provide the passport to the IS for canceling, because thats what the IS wants and because the IS says so. The IT doesnt owe the IS cooperation.
The government isnt asking the IT to participate, its the IS asking, no demanding. Take Japan for example, the IS want to cancel an ITs work visa (Humanities/International Services) they demand the IT surrender it for canceling, which the MOJ in Japan can do, but they (the MOJ) arent requesting or requiring the IT to do so, the IS is. If the IT complies with the employer then yes the MOJ can cancel the visa, but the IT isnt require to do so, nor are they obligated to grant the ISs request, because all it is a request. This is the same for China. China can cancel the resident permit, but they arent going to do that if the passport isnt presented and solely at the behest of the IS, because the IS says so and wants it that way.

This is a common, laughable, misconception of leadership, this unwavering belief that they are in charge and the decision makers, when the reality is they only have those rolls, while they are paying for them. They got those thing in the past because of the coin they paid for them, as soon as the employment relationship is severed they dont get to demand compliance, or cooperation anymore. Leadership becomes just another nothing and nobody.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: How to resign and transfer my visa?

Post by sid »

Why do you keep insisting I'm writing about the school? It is the government that can do all this, as I clearly wrote repeatedly. The school simply tells the government about the situation. And in most countries, the school/employer is actually required to inform the government if a foreign worker quits or is fired from a job related to their visa situation. I don't know about China for sure, but it's pretty standard in other countries.
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