What are my chances?

[TCH12]

Just found this forum -- what a terrific resource! Thanks to all who contribute.

I'm on the verge of making some big life decisions, but thought I'd reach out for some advice before I do something stupid. I'll try keep it brief (points bulleted, for ease of reading):

- I'm a 35 year old South African male
- BA degree in Media, with a major in English Literature
- I've been teaching ESL in Korean public schools for the past 5 years
- Married to a Korean national (we have a young daughter)
- Teaching ESL in Korea is hardly a 'career'
- Considering returning to South Africa for a year so I can do my PGCE (specializations will be 1. English as a Home Language, and 2. the Creative Arts (art, drama, etc.)
- Hoping to join the IS circuit as an English teacher, directly after doing the PGCE

Does this sound at all doable? I have enough money saved to support my family while I'm studying for the PGCE, but that's about it. As far as I can tell, my biggest obstacle will be a lack of experience teaching English as a first language (my experience teaching ESL in Korea will count for naught, surely.)

I would happily find a post in South Africa to build up the necessary experience, but there's no way I'd be able to support my family on the pittance that is a South African teacher's salary.

It seems a bit of a catch-22 that practically all IS schools demand a minimum of two years experience (usually in an IB setting). How can one gain experience sans eligibility? Is there a way of breaking into the scene that I'm not aware of? I'm definitely not expecting to be hired by a top-tier school right away. But I'd like to get there by the time I'm 40.

So how would you approach things? Huge thanks in advance, to all who advise :)

[Heliotrope]

Have you considered Teach Now to get certified?
That way you can stay where you are, keep working your current job, and do Teach Now on evenings and weekends. From what I've heard, it's not impossible to combine a full-time job with the Teach Now course, apart from the practicum part which will be full time. You'd still have to find a school where you can do your practicum, that might be the hardest part.

If you're 35 now, getting hired by a tier 1 school as an English (or Arts) teacher by age 40 is not realistic at all. If that is your plan, prepare to be disappointed. Sure, miracles happen, but not very often.

For the type of schools that will hire you right after getting certified, without any experience, IB experience will not be necessary to get hired. If you're very lucky they will offer IB and will pay for your IB training, but there are many schools that are not IB.

[TCH12]

Many thanks, Heliotrope, for the much needed reality check! Perhaps 'top-tier' was the wrong term to use -- I just mean a good school somewhere in the world that offers decent savings potential and contributes meaningfully to a sense of upward mobility for me and my family. As far as I can tell, these schools usually offer IB or IGSCE type curriculums. Does this change your opinion at all? Please be brutally honest!

Are there any countries in particular that look favorably on less experienced candidates and can act as a stepping stone? I believe many countries need two years of experience before they'll even consider issuing a visa. I wish I could find a definitive list somewhere, as information regarding this matter is strangely hard to come by.

You've piqued my interest with Teach Now! I'll check it out. I suppose the allure of doing my PGCE back home is that it'll have that specialization in English Home Language, and I'll be registered with the South African Council of Education (or SACE - the South African version of QTS) upon finishing it.

Thanks again for your valuable input!

[Verano]

There are international schools that are not top tier but pay well to support your family without having the 2 year experience with a PGCE. For example, my school is tiny and not well known, but has hired many people who did not have experience in the past and we get paid well. My South African friend was paid well in China, worked in two different schools there and had a PGCE. My current South African colleague worked at the American School in Johannesburg before going international, and they probably pay better than the local schools. However, it is hard to predict how many teachers will be looking for the position you are looking for whenever you start, especially after Covid19 crisis. I think your best bet would be the Middle East or Asia, because most school pay for housing and the salaries would be enough to support your family.

[TCH12]

Thanks for the reply, Verano! Your situation sounds encouraging. I was under the impression that China is one of the countries that demands two years post-qualification experience to grant a visa. Or am I mistaken? Where are you based, if I may ask?

[TCH12]

I'll keep an eye on this post over the next few days, just in case anyone else is willing/able to offer an opinion :)

I've already been accepted for the PGCE programme in my home country (at the same university I got my BA), so I'm on the brink of this big life move. I just don't want to lead my family down a potentially dead-end road. I'm more or less counting on some form of employability overseas (post-PGCE), which can give me a leg-up to the IT scene (going back to ESL obviously won't help in this regard).

You guys are awesome - thanks again.

[inmortus]

Since you asked for an opinion, I'll give you mine: it's all about how committed you are to the idea of teaching internationally Vs potentially returning home... You can do Teach Now, get a US teaching license, and with these qualifications you would be able to find an initial job that allows you to live well (not great) probably at a less desirable location. You could probably even get a job right now at a 3rd tier school while you do Teach Now, and if it is an IB school, get some IB experience while doing that.

The main downside with this route Vs getting a PGCE is that it would not allow you to (later in life) move back home and work as a teacher in South Africa. If that is a deal breaker, then you really don't have any other options other than the PGCE.

I would say, that the PGCE's only benefit really is being able to work back home. There really is no other additional benefit (when compared to Teach Now) that I can think of. Either of those will allow you to say you are a qualified teacher. Teach Now will allow you to do it right now, even while you work either as an ESL teacher in Korea or at some 3rd tier school.

Whether you need prior experience to get a job (or not) really is more up to individual country's immigration system, and how much "pull" (or not) the school has. Some countries allow schools to hire whomever they want. In this case, it really depends on whether the school wants you. Other countries require experience but may allow schools that have pull to hire whomever they want. And in other cases some countries will actually study each case individually and you may not get a work permit without a license and experience. China is a bit (in my experience) in the second category. You're supposed to need a license and experience, but it really varies a bit by province, and in some provinces, the schools manage to hire whomever they want. It's the same for India, for example.

That's my 2 cents.

[sid]

For my two cents worth, I'd say you're on the right track. It might take a little longer to get to the top than by 40, but you should be able to get there.
Which countries/schools are less demanding about experience? Start by crossing off your list all the countries where people say "I've always dreamed of living there" or where everyone and their brother is planning a holiday someday. Stick to the countries that inspire people to say "Hmm, I don't really know about..." or "Where's that?" Or even the ones that get responses like "Surely you don't want to move there!" The less the country appears on people's radar, the higher the chances that you're in with a chance. Having lived in a couple of those countries, I can vouch for how much fun they can be, how rich culturally, and how well your pay packet will probably do in the local market.
Also avoid the name brand schools and those with a sense of superiority. They can be pretty limiting in terms of who they allow themselves to hire, even if the country allows them to take newbies. Some of these schools are actual gems, even if they don't have an international reputation and 50 year history to lean on.
You're correct that schools will probably not give you credit on the pay scale for your previous experience as an EAL teacher. However, they may well find you more intriguing than other new teachers, because you have been at the chalk face before. It can be seen as a win for them - a cheap teacher with more experience than most cheap teachers. And many countries don't care whether your experience is as a K-12 classroom teacher or an EAL teacher - on paper, it's teaching experience, so can be used to get a visa. It's down to the country, so won't work everywhere, of course, but it's worth a try.

[Verano]

I don’t want you to get your hopes up too high. Although getting a PGCE and not having 2 years will experience can get you a job, it is not always easy. It all depends on how many teachers applied to the position, and what the school is looking for. For example, one of the schools that I worked at in Europe had a last minute position at the end of the year around June. All the experienced teachers at that time have probably gotten their jobs, and the teachers who applied to the position did not have a lot of experience. However, the school had to choose one of them. There was an opening during the school year in another school due to medical leave, and again the candidate pool was not as great as if the search was in the fall/winter for the following academic year. I am currently in Japan and am working at a well-paid school. However, the majority of the international schools in Japan that are not top tier schools do not pay as well as the top tier schools. I have worked in Europe for 6 years and Latin America for 8 years, and it was the same situation. Generally top tier schools pay better and hire people who have ample experience.

[TCH12]

@inmortus
@sid

Thank you for your collective 4 cents (worth more to me than you know).

I’ll consider the options carefully (Teach Now vs PGCE) and cast my net wide, once done. My wife and I are open to the idea of living pretty much anywhere for the first two years, as long as it’s safe and we can get by financially (teaching in South Africa fails on both fronts). I should also mention that I have a BA (Honours) in Film Studies, and something of a passion for film and photography. Perhaps schools will fancy having a filmmaker at hand.

Regarding Teach Now: Do online qualifications enjoy the same esteem as on-campus qualifications, these days?


@Verano

Many thanks for the extra info. I’m aware of the risk element, but hopefully a bit of persistence and clever self-marketing will get my foot in the door somewhere. And some luck, of course!

You mentioned June is toward the end of the academic year? In Korea the school year runs from March to February. Schools in South Africa typically run from January to December. Do international schools have a cycle of their own? If I go for the PGCE (as opposed to Teach Now) I’ll be qualified to teach in January of 2022. Hopefully that’ll coincide with a hiring season somewhere in the world.


Thanks again, all!

[sid]

The question of online qualifications is a messy one. Some countries, notably in the ME, will not recognize online degrees. But that is not necessarily the same as an online qualification. Best to cast a wide net and speak individually with the schools to make sure there's no issue.
It tends to be the richer schools that offer film as a course - it is rather pricey to outfit the film lab. But you could offer your services to make promotional films, which would be a bonus to the schools that don't have the funds for it.
The international school year is most typically late August or early September to some point in June. There is considerable variation on that theme, and of course you have countries/regions that follow southern hemisphere calendars, though not nearly so many as you'd predict. Quite a lot of international schools in the southern hemisphere stick to the August-June calendar no matter what the local norm is. A January start is possible - in most schools, you'd be picking up for someone who had to leave midyear. There aren't as many jobs available in that time frame, but there isn't much of a pool of available candidates either, so it somewhat evens out. You should have a Plan B to take you through to August if you cannot secure a job for January. Be active about that Plan B - register for hiring fairs and such. You can always back out if you don't need them in the end.
Good luck.

[TCH12]

@sid Thank you, that answers everything perfectly.

[TCH12]

Nothing like a thread like this to put the fear of God in you...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7403

Damn. Lol

[PsyGuy]

Ar you white or non-white?

Short Answer:

Do the S.Africa PGCE it will provide better longitudinal utility than doing a skills based pathway such as Teach Now. Youve also already made the decision anyway.

Long Answer:

Your ESOL experience isnt worth anything, but that doesnt mean it doent have utility. You are a better and cheaper noob, but thats only among other noobs and nobody will pay you coin for it. They arent going to find you intriguing.

Its making their bones in DE, whether its S.Africa or elsewhere. ISs arent usually resourced or organized to provide the support and mentoring of an edu, and they tend to be unforgiving.

IB isnt really a need until you get to upper third tier or second tier ISs.

If you want to take a shortcut, your best pathway is working the contacts and network you have access too now in SK.

Id look at either an assessment based pathway such as the MA Provisional credential or the FL Teach Ready skills based pathway. Teach Now is a 12 week field experience which means you need a job, and your in SK. If your doing it for free than your working 8+ hour days, and you still have to work to feed your family. Teach Ready is 5 days. You can then use the letter from Teach Ready to apply for the HI Provisional (entry grade) credential.

You could be in a tier 1 IS by 40, 5 years isnt unreasonable if your okay with a hardship location. Typically an IT can move up or across (from a hardship to a more desirable IS at the same tier). Youre likely to be disappointed though in most cases, and I would agree with @Heliotrope.
There are many floater third tier ISs that will meet your requirements.
I concur with @Sid stay stay from the "I've always dreamed of living there" or where everyone and their brother is planning a holiday someday" and focus more on the "Hmm, I don't really know about..." or "Where's that?" Or even the ones that get responses like "Surely you don't want to move there!".

Its not so much a visa issue, as your ESOL experience will likely meet the immigration requirements.

The ME and hardship parts of Asia (China, Myanmar, etc.)

The PGCE has more advantages, such as its half way through a Masters, it worth actual credits academically, etc. Teach Now and the credential is only worth something if you keep renewing it, but outside of a credential to teach it doesnt have a lot of tangential utility, especially when there are easier ays of getting a credential.

I agree with @Sid, film is usually only a subject the upper tier ISs can afford, and even then youd have to likely teach something else for most of your coarse load to make an FTE vacancy (though you have your ASP taken care of).

Online degrees can have issues, as some regions wont accept them. There is less of an issue with credentials (still an issue) but whats more likely to be an issue is an ISs leadership that feels non academic pathways are inferior. They want to see that youve really studied the meds/peds/asst. Those leadership arent a majority. There rarely is a difference in validity between credentials, but a recruiter/leader will take one look at your resume and see you werent academically prepared.

Many ISs regardless of location or what the local norm is follow a western, Fall too Summer calendar.

Yeah that happens.

[Smoko]

Semi-related question - how much are South African teachers/qualifications discriminated against in IE?

It's interesting to see a South African PGCE outrank a US teaching licence, albeit academic pathway vs skills based.