Dataset for average international school salaries

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marieh
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Dataset for average international school salaries

Post by marieh »

Does anyone know if such a dataset exists? I'd rather not reinvent the wheel by trying to scrape the SA or ISS sites.
sid
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Re: Dataset for average international school salaries

Post by sid »

The major recruiting agencies all have them, as do the major accreditation agencies. ISR could in theory have built them from data in the reviews, though I don't recall seeing them.
There are multiple challenges.
Data held by recruiting agencies is self-reported by school leadership. In my experience, schools are pretty honest about it, but some have claimed the figures are rigged. Regardless, those agencies don't have full salary scales, but just a couple specific points on the scale. Not all schools are represented though, with different agencies skewing towards different tiers of schools. The average at a podunk mom and pop agency is going to be far lower than Search's average.
Data held by accreditation agencies is self-reported as well, and again just reports a few specific points. Even though those agencies have access to official salary scales for all accredited and aspiring schools, they don't deploy their own people to farm all those separate documents; they just trust the schools to do it. Schools have no reason to be dishonest here, but there's no external confirmation. Again not all schools are represented - accrediting agencies skew towards established schools in higher tiers, so averages will be higher but not represent the full market. And you probably can't get hold of this data from accrediting agencies unless you hold a high leadership position in a member school.
ISR data comes from individual teachers who often don't have access to the full salary scale. So they're guessing what the salary ranges are. And again, there's no external confirmation, so who's to know what's right? If you look at what is posted in different reviews for the same school, it's often wildly different. As for representation, ISR hits all parts of the spectrum of schools, but it's very patchy. Some schools have escaped any notice at all, others have tons of reviews.
If someone wants to build a better mousetrap, there's room here. But how? Ideally you want verified information from all international schools. There's no realistic way to get it.
fine dude
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Re: Dataset for average international school salaries

Post by fine dude »

I would simply pick 3-5 countries where I want to work long-term and create a spreadsheet of pros and cons, including salary, benefits, saving potential at the top 3-5 schools. Let's say if I do that with Thailand, Singapore, Switzerland, Taiwan, and Japan, I'm not going to see much variation at the basic salary level as all new teachers can't go beyond a minimum of, say step 10 or 12. What is more important is estimating your monthly/annual savings after deductions towards your liabilities (travel, college debt, mortgage, kids' college tuition, parental support etc.) in each of these countries.
marieh
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Re: Dataset for average international school salaries

Post by marieh »

Thanks sid and finedude. Thought this might be one of those topics that had too many variables to form a reliable data set, but I thought I'd at least ask. For the record, this was just because I wanted to practice my python/R skills by comparing average American public school vs. IS salaries and their benefits. I'm happy at my current school but I'm also very bored.
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

The global average as of 2019 is 32K.

There are a number of sources. I generally disagree with @Sid in intent if not content. Saying all the major recruiting agencies have them is disingenuous, if we look at just the premium recruiting agencies (SA, ISS) they have data, but its more a collection of points, its very self report and tends to be inflated and inaccurate. ITs have had exactly a BA+4 or MA+8 an not gotten the listed salary offer. As ITs use this resource in both late stage recruiting but also in their own screening, its in the ISs interest to present as positive a picture as possible. As its self reported there is no mechanism to actually validate the data ISs provide, many just click the update button every year whether there are changes or not. The data is as @Sid indicated range restricted by the quality of the associate ISs that use the recruiting service, it doent capture the entirety of the spectrum, but restricted range of data.
The data held by accreditation agencies typically just contains an average, its also of restricted range as accreditation agencies vary in quality and there are many ISs that arent accredited by the typical agencies or arent accredited. It would provide you a skewed and inflated value. Theres more of a risk in an IS misrepresenting this data and if you look at data points there is some surprising differences between what an IS reports for a recruiting agency and what they provide to an accreditation agency. As @Sid indicated though there really isnt a validation mechanism, salary data isnt a critical or even priority value, its almost purely used as a research value, so there isnt a lot of resources being channeled into the integrity of that data.
The same issues exist with ISR and other sites. While they may be guesses, they may not be guesses, ITs talk among each other and one of the first things they ask when the working relationship goes a little deeper is how much the other IT makes. Whether that report is accurate may indeed be an issue, but its not a guess.

You can get the data if you want, its not hard actually. Various wage and labor ministries/departments collect such data to provide social programs and to asses tax and other liabilities. Much of it is in some form of public record or available for research purposes.

Forming a valid and reliable data set (though not exhaustive) isnt the issue or even the problem its whats the utility of such an endeavor. Unless your comfortable with time tables on the scale of the US census (10 years), your not going to produce any conclusions thats arent quickly outdated and of little use or utility.
Heliotrope
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Re: Dataset for average international school salaries

Post by Heliotrope »

Sid makes some good points.
The SA data is in my experience pretty reliable. I've seems cases where the actual salary was higher than what their profile mentioned. But while SA has both tier 1 and tier 3 schools, their average won't be one that represents any kind of global average.

And to get that global average is kind of impossible, unless you first define what you consider to be an international school, and that will be arbitrary. A lot of schools call themselves international that many ITs would never consider to be a real IS.
If you drive through some cities it seems like they have close to a hundred ISs if you go by their names alone, but almost all of them will have no ITs and no international students, and are only partially taught in English (I know some that have no English at all) - adding 'international' is just marketing sometimes.

Also, if you somehow get an average, that won't help you. Salaries are not important - savings potential is. Just like a certain salary in Dayton will let you live comfortably, that same salary will not go as far in San Fransisco. Internationally it's a lot more skewed.

But you can choose a definition for what you consider an IS that will make it possible to get a dataset (for example all SA and ISS schools), use Numbeo data for cost of living, and then work out a way to get to a savings potential for each school, and average that. But there might be more interesting ways to practice your python/R skills.
inmortus
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Re: Dataset for average international school salaries

Post by inmortus »

As a non-native English speaker, I always find it a bit contradictory to believe that "true" international schools run in English and not in other languages... Would a multilingual school not be more international than a monolingual English-speaking school? Is a French lycee running French curriculum with almost no host nationals somewhere in Asia less international than the American school next door to it running A levels and common core with a similar student population? What about the local bilingual school next to those, running both IGCSE and DP programs that is accredited by CIS but has mostly local students and a few expat teachers?

Definitions of what makes a school international seem to diverge, with some thinking it's the curriculum, diversity of students (but not teachers), diversity of teachers (but not students), main language used in the school (with some clearly thinking English is the only acceptable language for a school to be international) , location or a mix of all these things.

Off topic, apologies.
Heliotrope
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Re: Dataset for average international school salaries

Post by Heliotrope »

@inmortus

You're right, it doesn't have to be English.
PsyGuy
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Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

There are many ISs that do not deliver there program in English such a French lycees, German/Swiss ISs, Japanese, Korean ISs to name a few. Having the ISs curriculum delivered in a language outside of English does not inherently invalidate the IS.

It is common to operationally define terms when citing such research such as what qualifies as an IS for purpose of the treatise. Yes, its arbitrary, but so are many things with value.

Salaries are absolutely important. You cant save what you dont make. Saving potential is one goal of a number of goals such as quality of life, etc.) which will vary in importance of priority between ITs.
Heliotrope
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Re: Discussion

Post by Heliotrope »

Salaries are of course important, since you need it to calculate your savings potential.
Unless you don't eat & drink and don't need a place to live, you can't save your whole salary.
If I see a school's salary advertised in a country I don't know, I need to know how much of that salary I will spend on my basic needs. Everything else you can save, or choose to to spend on travel, country club membership, etc.
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

You need salary to calculate many financial aspect of being an IT, it not just an abstract number its real coin.
There are some ISs tht provide you housing and free meals, you could live off nothing. You do realize there are some ITs that are essentially volunteers who earn zero?
Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> There are some ISs tht provide you housing and free meals, you could live
> off nothing.

Knowing that housing and meals are provided is the additional data that you would need to know calculate savings potential.
Once you know they are provided the salary could equal the savings potential (although nobody I know ONLY spends money on food and rent), but just knowing the salary wouldn't tell you that.
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