Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by Heliotrope »

fangpiren wrote:
> Of course anyone who enjoys living in China must be a troll or so
> heliotrope’s sloppy logic goes.

You're misrepresenting what I said.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying your life in China. There's also nothing wrong with the Chinese people. But there's a lot wrong with what the China's government does, as mentioned their treatment of the Uyghurs, Hong Kong, South China Sea, social credit system, etc.

Taiwan has never been governed by the PRC, so no, it's not part of China. I'm aware of the PRC's claims, but saying it very loudly doesn't make it true. There is very much a border between China and Taiwan (try entering one from the other and you'll find out), so yes, China would need to attack to make Taiwan part of China, so those words do have meaning here.
'Washington' doesn't need to attack Hawaii since Hawaii recognises that they're part of the US: they pay federal taxes just like the other states of the US, use the same currency, vote for the US president, have representatives in Congress, etc.
Taiwan however is a self-sustaining, fully functional, democratically governed entity unrelated to Beijing, with its own economy, currency, etc.



> I won’t waste my time on the majority of
> what helioslop said because it’s a waste of time.

"I won't waste my time because it's a waste a time?" That's beautiful!
A waste of time because it's not true? Or because it is?
Are you saying air pollution isn't part of quality of life, or are you saying China doesn't have a serious air pollution problem?
Are you denying the Uyghur's human rights are being violated? Are you saying the Joint Declaration with regards to Hong Kong hasn't been infringed upon by means of the Hong Kong security law?



> No wonder China feels it has to educate foreign teachers!

China needs to be educated on human rights.
fangpiren
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:34 am

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by fangpiren »

shadowjack wrote:

>
> Fangpiren - your bank account is mine. Just to let you know, we can talk,
> but your bank account is mine. It belongs to me.
>

What does that mean exactly? I never had trouble repatriating my money back to the States. Also over the years I bought 2 houses in China, sold them both for a good profit and repatriated that money back as well. I guess my point is, my Chinese accounts are empty because my money was all sent back.

I’m confused shadowjack - all these hiring cycles and you are still finding it difficult to repatriate money? Ask any Chinese person to help you out. They will too. They are incredibly cool.
BM12
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:16 pm

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by BM12 »

Interesting and sad that this forum now has it's own Wumao with Fangpiren.
fine dude
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: SE Asia

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by fine dude »

How the Chinese govt's muscle-flexing and arm-twisting is leading to creative crimes of racketeering abroad.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/28/aust ... index.html
TheHuman
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:56 am

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by TheHuman »

It sounds like Fangpiren has already undergone his 20 hours of brainwashing. This is China's goal, to indoctrinate all foreign teachers so that they not only believe the lies, but they spread them to others. Luckily, this only works on weak minded people.
eion_padraig
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by eion_padraig »

@sciteacher,

Like most laws in China that comes through we've heard there will be one, but how it may be implemented by schools and which schools have to implement it is still uncertain. I'm wondering if it will need to be implemented at the foreign run schools that serve non-Chinese passport holders. At this point it's not clear. For instance AP US History was banned in China, except at the foreign run schools that don't serve Chinese passport holders, but that wasn't clear when it was first announced in various media outlets.

So far, being American in China hasn't been a negative in my experience. The biggest issue for foreigners in China of late are for those trying to travel around internally in China (since leaving probably means we can't return) and being turned away from hotels or tourist sites for fear they may be sick with Covid19. It's not happening everywhere, but I have friends traveling especially in more remote areas where they've had issues. I won't comment on the irony of it. I speak with local Chinese folks frequently, and let them know I'm American when asked. Once in a while a Chinese person will follow up that with discussion of the American government, but it's not the most common thing. In years of living here, I can remember only a few times (maybe 3 or 4) where someone was angry or hostile with me when I told them I was American. To be honest I've dealt with a lot more hostility from various Europeans over the years when they find out I'm American.

I tend to limit my holdings of RMB because it's hard to take RMB out. You have to prove that you've paid taxes, and there are more hoops to jump through if you've had it hanging out in Chinese bank. But the last time I was traveling internationally I was able to withdraw local currency from my Chinese bank card without problems.

For now it seems like a lot of posturing on both sides. It's nothing like what happened after the US bombing of the Chinese Embassy building in 1999 when the CIA deliberately targeted Chinese intelligence operatives who were believed to be giving intelligence to Serbians. That ended up being a dangerous time to be a Western foreigner in China, when the government stirred up protests against Americans. Granted things can change, but that what you have to deal with as an international teacher.

For the time being, I'm happy to be based here. The money is excellent. I really appreciate a lot about about Chinese culture and the ease of living here (not everything of course). I have excellent colleagues. I can understand folks who don't like it as much, and it's good there is a whole world out there for you to consider.

Eion
grdwdgrrrl
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:26 pm

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by grdwdgrrrl »

It's nothing like what happened after the US bombing of the Chinese Embassy building in 1999 when the CIA deliberately targeted Chinese intelligence operatives who were believed to be giving intelligence to Serbians. That ended up being a dangerous time to be a Western foreigner in China, when the government stirred up protests against Americans.

I was there then. It was scary. The university I was at in Shanghai was blaring horrible things over the campus loud speakers to get the students riled up. No one came to my classes. Students were yelling that if they saw an American, they would stab them. I almost repatriated. However, things calmed down eventually.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

If the 20 hrs of cultural PD turns someone off, they probably arent going to handle China well as a whole. I doubt 20 hrs of PD is going to brainwash anyone.

China cares about control, control of coin. Thats why Macau, HK exist as SARs and why Taiwan hasnt been reduced to glass.
One article does not a fact or prediction make. Though I wouldnt be surprised and wholly expect they will institute a more binary classification of students.

Not a SJW, happy to take coin over principles. Principles pay nothing, so will happily take the 30 pieces of silver.

China doesnt want to be isolated they just want China global. They ruled the world once (at least their understanding of it), they miss that.
China fully understands the concept and nature of human rights, they just dont agree with them.

Well the propaganda, sorry PD, Thailand makes you do doesnt help well. To that end the various culture and history and studies courses various states in the USA make you take to retain or obtain their state credential doesnt help (unless youre a history DT).
The IT sector (particularly ET) in China has been rather dubious as a whole for a long time. Although I don’t necessarily agree with their approach, I find it difficult to blame them for wanting to clean it up, regardless of their motivations as Im also aware of the large want for ITs where jobs often outweigh the supply when it comes to quality ITs an ETs. There are just that many ISs/DSs/ESs in China as China is just that large. I anticipate a hollowing out of the 2nd tier ISs in China and the only foreseeable job safety will be in Chinese DSs/ISs.
The new rules are probably going to be as they have been in the past, a soft touch approach for true expat ISs, with increasingly harder implementation as the IS resembles a DS in student composition. It is also going to matter (and as a practical matter, to a greater degree) what you teach. Yeah, if youre a history IT youre going to have a greater degree of risk factors than a PHE or a maths IT.

The current tensions between the USA and China are 50% each Xi Jinping and Trumps accounting.
I tend to like the Chinese government, as it tends to ignore me or is to my advantage in my past interactions. Things like protesting in HK, Uyghurs, and the social credit system dont really apply to or effect me. I've dealt with a lot more hostility from various Europeans over the years over Americanism, its easier to say your Canadian.

Its not a tad bit Orwellion, its just Orwellion, full stop. The IB and other western curriculum will adapt, either formally or informally. The IBO doesnt have the spine or the clout to put China to the line over anything, its just too big a market to lose and China wouldnt care if they "lost" the IB.

China does not have the best students and while their coin tends to be on the higher end of the spectrum its not THE best. The students behavior is certainly better than many western regions but thy arent significantly better compared to the rest of Asia as a whole. China has far from the best living conditions, but that could depend on how you define "living conditions". Some ITs have a very narrow definition and some broad definitions move into quality of life and lifestyle factors.

Taiwan is a province of China because China says so, and China has a pretty big gun aimed at Taiwans head. Loud doesnt really factor into it.
Hawaii is a US state, what surprises me is how many Americans think you need a passport to visit the island.

We live in interesting times.
fangpiren
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:34 am

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by fangpiren »

[quote=PsyGuy post_id=59375 time=1596330919 user_id=68047]
If the 20 hrs of cultural PD turns someone off, they probably arent going to handle China well as a whole. I doubt 20 hrs of PD is going to brainwash anyone.

China cares about control, control of coin. Thats why Macau, HK exist as SARs and why Taiwan hasnt been reduced to glass.

China doesnt want to be isolated they just want China global. They ruled the world once (at least their understanding of it), they miss that. China fully understands the concept and nature of human rights, they just dont agree with them.

The current tensions between the USA and China are 50% each Xi Jinping and Trumps accounting.

Its not a tad bit Orwellion, its just Orwellion, full stop. The IB and other western curriculum will adapt, either formally or informally. The IBO doesnt have the spine or the clout to put China to the line over anything, its just too big a market to lose and China wouldnt care if they "lost" the IB.

China does not have the best students and while their coin tends to be on the higher end of the spectrum its not THE best. The students behavior is certainly better than many western regions but thy arent significantly better compared to the rest of Asia as a whole. China has far from the best living conditions, but that could depend on how you define "living conditions". Some ITs have a very narrow definition and some broad definitions move into quality of life and lifestyle factors.

Taiwan is a province of China because China says so, and China has a pretty big gun aimed at Taiwans head. Loud doesnt really factor into it. Hawaii is a US state, what surprises me is how many Americans think you need a passport to visit the island.

We live in interesting times.
[/quote]

Most of what you say is opinion but you are wrong about Taiwan. Taiwan is a province of China. The PRC is recognized worldwide, which means that there is worldwide acceptance of Taiwan as part of China. Even the States agrees to this. Carter formalized Taiwan’s position 50 years ago.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by Heliotrope »

fangpiren wrote:
> Most of what you say is opinion but you are wrong about Taiwan. Taiwan is a
> province of China. The PRC is recognized worldwide, which means that there
> is worldwide acceptance of Taiwan as part of China. Even the States agrees
> to this. Carter formalized Taiwan’s position 50 years ago.

Nope. Most of those countries, including the US, acknowledge that the PRC is of the opinion that Taiwan is part of the PRC, but they don't necessarily share this opinion that China has a right to Taiwan. Also, the only reason most of these countries do acknowledge this is to get access to the Chinese market since China will not do business with states that don't.

Plus, countries recognize Russia, but that doesn't mean they recognize that Crimea is part of Russia. It's the same with China and Taiwan, with the difference being that Taiwan is in fact an independent entity, while Crimea has been seized by Russia.

As long as Taiwanese people don't pay taxes to the PRC government, have their own government, and you can't travel between China and Taiwan without a passport and visa, they're not one country.
Actually, Taiwan has an equally strong claim to consider China as their territory. So, also not very strong at all.

But by all means, keep trolling.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Hong Kong and Macau are absolutely part of China, the PRC. They do not pay taxes to China, have their own governments, and issue their own passports. The issue of a visa is misleading, you do not need a "visa" to travel between Taiwan and Hong Kong or Macau. Yet they are part of China.

This is easy, please cite the post 1945 date of Taiwans declaration of independence from China (PRC), after Taiwan declared independence from Japan at the end of WWII?

Further be advised that under the National Security Law of China (HK) your actions may be subject to arrest, and detention as a traitor and member of a rebel alliance.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

Taiwan has never been controlled by the PRC.
Taiwan and a few islands around it are the ROC, which was once comprised of the area now controlled by the PRC plus Taiwan and those islands. So if the PRC thinks Taiwan should be part of the PRC, they'll have to conquer it like they did the rest of China.
For now, they don't control it, and most other countries merely acknowledge that China claims it, but they don't actually say that claim is justified.
Illiane_Blues

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by Illiane_Blues »

I agree that Taiwan is not part of China, but I wouldn't say that in China, and def not in a classroom there.
If I had no other offers, I would accept a job in China if the school was one of the three I once shortlisted even if I had to take that course.
Too bad lot of the higher paying jobs are in countries with bad track records in human rights such as China, Angola, and Saudi.
secondplace
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by secondplace »

ROC - Republic of China (Taiwan)
PRC - People's Republic of China (China)

Easy enough.

The world, much of it, accepts Taiwan as its own place but also lets the PRC take a UN seat and agrees that the ROC should compete at the Olympics as Chinese Taipei.

Geopolitics and RealPolitik collide.

Check out 'Prisoners of Geography' for a great read on geopolitics. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00Y16BEM2/ ... TF8&btkr=1
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Beginning Of The End for China Foreign Teachers?

Post by shadowjack »

fangpiren wrote:
> shadowjack wrote:
>
> >
> > Fangpiren - your bank account is mine. Just to let you know, we can talk,
> > but your bank account is mine. It belongs to me.
> >
>
> What does that mean exactly? I never had trouble repatriating my money back to the
> States. Also over the years I bought 2 houses in China, sold them both for a good
> profit and repatriated that money back as well. I guess my point is, my Chinese
> accounts are empty because my money was all sent back.
>
> I’m confused shadowjack - all these hiring cycles and you are still finding it
> difficult to repatriate money? Ask any Chinese person to help you out. They will too.
> They are incredibly cool.

LOL - Me saying that to you is like China saying to Taiwan that Taiwan belongs to China when it patently, clearly, does not.
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