Sending kids to local schools

Post Reply
kellysensei
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Sending kids to local schools

Post by kellysensei »

My family and I would like to move to either Japan or Taiwan. I'm a US-certified ESL teacher with a Master's degree and 13 years experience. It is my understanding that "free" tuition for teachers' kids at international schools in Japan is a taxable benefit, which would cost us thousands of dollars a year. So I have three related questions:

1. If we decide to send our two boys (currently ages 9 and 8) to a local school instead, would that increase my chances of getting hired because they wouldn't have to deal with tuition/taxes for my dependents? Or would most international schools prefer my kids to go to their school?

2. Is there anyone here that has sent their kids to local schools in Japan or Taiwan and can tell me about their experiences?

3. Is "free" tuition also a taxable benefit in Taiwan, or is it truly (mostly) free there?

Thanks for any input!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

It wont cost you thousands of dollars a year in Japan. ISs average the ledger rate of USD$10K for tuition/place waivers. The Japanese deduction is ¥1.1M which is about USD$11K. So youll get one child without tax liability, and you'll pay USD$1-2K for the second child in tax
The tax rate in JP is 10% if youre making ESOL coin and 20% if your not (but youll get deductions), Whats a bigger concern for you is ISs are moving more towards 1 full waiver per employee and 50% off for a second child but thats at the full rate.
In Taiwan the tax rate is 20% and tuition/place waivers are taxable but you get a deduction.

It would effect your marketability all of zero, unless the IS is at capacity, but if it is, its going to be a higher tier IS that you cant undercut the comp policy, you will get whatever the comp is according to scale. Youre not saving them anything it takes nothing to calculate and withhold taxes. Youre probably costing them more, since the ISs office staff is likely going to be the one handling translation and interpretation with the local JP DS. Many ISs would be offended to some degree if you werent putting your kids in the IS compared to the local DS.
If your kids are of the traditional white/anglo look and are well behaved they would expect your children to attend the IS.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Sending kids to local schools

Post by Heliotrope »

I have a few friends and former colleagues at the two main international schools in Taipei, and I've visited many times and got tours of both schools. I would highly recommend both Taipei and these two schools. Then again, Japan is also an excellent place to be, although your savings potential will be lower there.
Right now with the pandemic going on Taipei would be one of the best places to live right now, as they're handling it very well there with only under 10 deaths.

Both of these Taipei schools are great places to work, and both will let you save a lot. The American one will let you save more, but the European one one will still let you easily save over 20/30K a year on one income without any effort (20K rather than 30K with kids unless you are a teaching couple).

The teachers there that have kids sometimes send them to local schools if they're still young, so they can learn Mandarin Chinese through immersion. At one of the schools (I forgot which one) the Head even sends his/her kids to a local school for that reason. With your kids being 9 and 8 I might recommend against this though, unless they already know some Mandarin. Also, the Taiwanese educational system is still mostly rote learning, which is why the aforementioned teachers that send their kids to local schools transfer them to their IS at grade 3 or 4, when they have a firm grasp of the language, but before the rote learning really takes flight and turns them into robots.
But nobody sends their kids to local schools to become more appealing to the ISs, and I think for these two schools it wouldn't matter much, although neither would mind it at all if you do send your kids to local schools as some of the admin with young kids do it themselves.
However, it wouldn't increase your chances of getting hired.

The free tuition in Taiwan isn't taxed, at least not at these two schools, and with your experience I wouldn't consider any of the other ISs in Taiwan (there's one in Kaohsiung that is ok but not great but the rest are pretty bad).
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

I dont agree with @Heliotrope saving 20K-30K is possible at those ISs its not very realistic.
Taiwan is somewhat of an anomaly in IE. It has a very small first tier an almost non existent second tier and a very large third tier comprised of a lot of ESs. While those handful of ISs at the top would understand sending your kids to a DS many of the ISs that arent those ISs would be various degrees of offended.
There are top tier ISs that absorb the taxes on tuition/place waivers.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Discussion

Post by Heliotrope »

From what I've heard 20K is easy and 30K is very well possible without having to be frugal, and that's with a non-teaching spouse and two kids. This is at the European IS that pays less than the American one. At the American IS you can apparently save double that amount without much effort, also with kids. The high pay and the quality of life in Taipei is why it's VERY hard to get a job there. The European one is on fewer ITs radar (also because their website looks really bad) but it's still competitive to get in there, and a great school where you save lots of money and have a very pleasant lifestyle in an awesome city.

Message me on the paid forum if you'd like me to give you the contact details of teachers at either of these two schools so they can tell you themselves how they like it there.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

We disagree.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Comment

Post by Heliotrope »

Ok
kellysensei
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:04 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Sending kids to local schools

Post by kellysensei »

That makes me feel much better about the tax situation in Japan, if true.

I think we'd only consider sending our boys to a local school in Japan, not Taiwan, since I've been teaching them Japanese since they were babies and they both have a basic understanding of the language.

I know about TAS and TES in Taipei (and KAS) and of course would love to work there. It looks like TES has quite a few ESL teachers, so fingers crossed one of them decides to leave next year. :-)

We'd slightly prefer to be in Japan because I've lived there before, my family has all been there before, and we all speak varying degrees of the language (I've passed JLPT N2). But we fell in love with Taiwan, too, when we visited in 2018. So wherever I can get a job, we'll go, and we'll be happy. I think. :)
mamava
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 7:56 am

Re: Sending kids to local schools

Post by mamava »

Besides cost, there are a lot of factors to consider. Having a "basic understanding" of a language isn't the same as knowing it. In a local school that is teaching in the local language (knowing it 7-9 years to become academically fluent), there will be a considerable amount of time in which your children's academic progress would be impacted by not knowing the language. A full-immersion would hasten things along, but in cases where I've worked with kids who speak 0 English and come to an English-medium school, a considerable amount of academic content takes a back seat to carrying the weight of learning the language. Local schools often don't have 2nd language services, either.

Some cultures are quite homogenous and students may be excluded because they're different or because they don't speak the language well enough or because of reasons we wouldn't understand if we are not part of the culture. As an example, when we lived in China, my 7 year old daughter was sad and said because she couldn't be friends with the Korean girls in her class. When I asked her why, she said it was because they did too much homework so they couldn't play and were only friends with their homework friends. Most of the Korean students went to hog-wans (spelling?) after school and tended to socialize with the children they rode those buses with and with the children of people associated with their parents' work. I don't know if that is a cultural "truth" but it was a common denominator for most of the Korean children in our school. She eventually did have friends who were Korean; however, they tended to be families who had spent time in the US, Canada, or Australia and has adopted different attitudes about work and school.

It's a long way of saying that there could be exclusionary factors that you're not aware of and a transition into a local school for a foreign child could be time-consuming and challenging. I would seek out families who have done it and ask about their experiences to see if it's right for your family.
sciteach
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 am

Re: Sending kids to local schools

Post by sciteach »

Here is an interesting question. Is attending a Japanese school going to be cheaper than attending an international school which has a taxable component? I don't know the answer to this - but it's something to think about.

There are a limited number of local schools which support foreigners learning the local language, but do they allow expat students to attend just because of a whim?

I've taught international students who attended Japanese schools and have seen positives and negatives. If I had very young kids (early primary) and I had decided to live the rest of my life in Japan - then I'd consider sending my kids to a Japanese local school. I would not do it at a middle or high school level though as it's just mean to both the student and school as elementary school in Japan is so focused on learning the alphabet which is something that's much easier in other countries.

One thing to significantly look at is I've seen students who have completed up to Grade 3 in their home country (Europe), then attend a local school in asia (not in English apart from language class) and then go into an English language school in middle or high school. The students ability to think in a home language was retarted (severely limited) as these students could not technically explain their ideas in one succinct language. Watching parents understand what has happened in their child's schooling is one of the most uncomfortable and sad things I've have seen in my educational career. As such - if you have to go to Japan, Korea, China or Taiwan just suck up the few extra thousand in taxes and do the right thing.

To others - remember this is my opinion and take it as a grain of salt. Also note that your childs English will suffer even at a high quality international school compared to at home. I've taught at way too many places and find that kids that come from the UK/US/Australia/Canada/NZ will not significantly improve their vocabulary apart from what they learn in class. To put it simple - the education is good quality but the general knowledge of different words will be limited as many students have parents who do not speak English at home.
Verano
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue May 05, 2020 3:11 pm

Re: Sending kids to local schools

Post by Verano »

I taught in Japan over a decade ago at a ‘local’ international school(cheaper than the well-known schools such as ASIJ and YIS), and a lot of the students had a Japanese parent and a foreign parent. They were in local Japanese schools and got bullied because of they didn’t look Japanese, which is why their parents paid more to get them into the school where I taught. I don’t know if the culture changed after a decade, however, it might be something you might not want to risk.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

I dont disagree with @mamava, there is certainly a significant cultural component to socialization at that age that impacts foreign expat students. Asian cultures have a really strong work and study ethic. In Japan you go to a Japanese wedding and all the friends from both the brides and grooms side are all from elementary and childhood.
Language is another issue being proficient with it as a foreigner or expat is not the same as being native in the language at academic grade level. Kids usually get some novelty attention but then when it comes to building relationships there can be real problems.
Post Reply