Can I force Majeure?

Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> The burden of proof is on the plaintiff, in this case the IS. Yes, we
> disagree.


Uhm, yes, but the plaintiff sues for breach of contract. That's easily proven.
The defendant can then counter with FM but will have to proof that it applies to them.
So I also disagree with you, and I'll leave it at that.

PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

No thats not easily proven, the IT has no obligation to report to work when FM is declared nullifying the contract. The plaintiff, the IS will have to prove that the FM is invalid and the contract still enforce, to claim the IT breached the contract.
We disagree.

Heliotrope
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Re: Can I force Majeure?

Post by Heliotrope »

Declaring FM doesn't nullify the contract, not sure why you'd think that.
Only when the IT can prove it applies will the contract be nullified.

But ok, we disagree about that as well then.

PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Because thats what FM does, the parties complete whatever the FM requirements are (if thre are any) and the contract dissolves without further obligations of the parties.

Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

Nope, thats not how it works. But as said, we disagree.

shadowjack
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Re: Can I force Majeure?

Post by shadowjack »

@PG if an IT follows your advice and declares FM and expects no consequences by doing so and walking away, that teacher is going to be in for a big surprise.

Walter
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Re: Can I force Majeure?

Post by Walter »

Yip, Wuhan Dave is talking absolute gollocks. Contracts are written by the employer first and foremost for the protection of the employer. I have never seen an international school contract that offers reciprocal rights that allow employees to declare “force majeure”, and I’ve seen and written a lot of contracts.
In good schools, the declaration of “force majeure” comes with certain contractual guarantees in terms of compensatory ex gratia payments, flights and shipping, but those are discretionary and may change year on year. In many countries, immigration law may mandate that, if the employer brought in an expat on a working visa then the employer has the obligation to pay for the flight back – but that is by no means assured.
Of course, anyone can go into the head’s office and declare “force majeure” if all it means is “I’m quitting right now and heading to the airport.” In all the schools I know, that would mean: no money, no flight, no shipping, no reference. (Except of course in some countries in the ME, where it would also mean no passport until you’ve fulfilled whatever obligations the schools decide.)

PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Walter

Absolute bunk. Contracts also need to incentivize ITs and at least look like a good deal. You havent seen many contracts then and have written far fewer. The operative term in your claim is "good schools". There are plenty of contracts that the entirety of the FM cause is to the effect "in the case of FM the IT will be entirety to one months salary and repatriation", and thats it. Thee is no explicit FM determination granted to the IT, but it doesnt indicate that FM is the exclusive right of the IS either.

@SJ

What exactly are they going to be surprised by? Whats FM benefits a month salary and a ticket home. Oh a reference, that cant be easily explained away by a pandemic.

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