Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

h1275
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:55 pm

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by h1275 »

Heliotrope wrote:
> h1275 wrote:
> > Not helping someone find a place to live after you've employed them from
> > overseas goes way beyond 'bad treatment', and more into the realm of a
> > human rights violation.
> >
> > Run, and don't look back. They've left you in a hostel ffs, how much worse
> > can it get?
>
>
> Wow, you really don't know what actual human rights violations are, do you?
> I've seen schools where the HR department was crap, but the rest of the school was
> pretty good.
> Give it a chance, and if after doing so you wanna run, you can always do so then.
>
> Plenty of schools put you up in a hostel for the first few weeks while you look for a
> place to live, but then the school finds and pays for that hostel, and puts you in
> contact with real estate agents. So yes, bad treatment.

No, plenty of schools put you up in a hotel for a couple of weeks. What OP is talking about is a hostel, i.e. a dorm room where he shares that space with several other people, often sleeping in a bunk bed. And the school didn't even arrange that, for all they care the OP could be sleeping on the street.

Problem with finding a place (on your own) and then running, is you'll probably have to pay a couple of months rent up front along with a housing deposit alongside signing a lengthy contract, and all this money won't be recouped after the school confirms what we already know - that it's a terrible place to work. The OP should absolutely take the first paycheck and run.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by Heliotrope »

The HR department is doing a shitty job. However, as said, a bad HR department doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of the school is equally bad, although I'm sure it's usually a bad sign. But to decide now, after 48 hours, that running is the best option is premature.

It's better to wait and see how that first month goes, and then make up your mind when that first paycheck actually arrives at the end of that month. If you want to avoid signing a lease right now then you can find an apartment in Belgrade for as low as 250 USD per month on Airbnb, or a single room for 175 USD.
Once you start working ask colleagues how they like it at the school. It might even be that the person who usually runs HR is on maternity leave or whatever. Jumping to conclusions gets you nothing.

shadowjack
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by shadowjack »

Schools in Europe are not bound to offer support in finding accommodation. They are 'international', but are governed more by local labour laws and taxation laws.

h1275
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:55 pm

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by h1275 »

shadowjack wrote:
> Schools in Europe are not bound to offer support in finding accommodation.
> They are 'international', but are governed more by local labour laws and
> taxation laws.

If you're going to pull 'the law' out, I'm pretty sure no where is legally bound by statute to help their employees find accommodation. That's also completely irrelevant. It goes without saying that if you recruit someone from overseas you don't just let them arrive at the airport and sort everything out themselves in a foreign language and with little knowledge of the local laws regarding renting.

Or if you want to start talking about legal obligations are all that matter, well, by that line of thinking, you're not legally obligated to show up at work on Monday morning. It's not a legal requirement that you put your best effort into the job. No where in the law of the land will it say I can't have 15 beers on a work night. Do you see where I'm going with this? There's certain standards of behavior that one should expect, and if they aren't met, cutting and running is a perfectly reasonable option.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by Heliotrope »

h1275 wrote:
> Do you see where I'm going with this? There's certain standards of behavior that one
> should expect

Oh, you mean like not omitting anything on your CV?
Or not faking references on your CV to get an admin job?
https://internationalschoolsreview.com/ ... f=1&t=7374

vandsmith
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:16 am

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by vandsmith »

h1275 wrote:
> shadowjack wrote:
> > Schools in Europe are not bound to offer support in finding accommodation.
> > They are 'international', but are governed more by local labour laws and
> > taxation laws.
>
> If you're going to pull 'the law' out, I'm pretty sure no where is legally bound by
> statute to help their employees find accommodation. That's also completely
> irrelevant. It goes without saying that if you recruit someone from overseas you
> don't just let them arrive at the airport and sort everything out themselves in a
> foreign language and with little knowledge of the local laws regarding renting.
>
> Or if you want to start talking about legal obligations are all that matter, well, by
> that line of thinking, you're not legally obligated to show up at work on Monday
> morning. It's not a legal requirement that you put your best effort into the job. No
> where in the law of the land will it say I can't have 15 beers on a work night. Do
> you see where I'm going with this? There's certain standards of behavior that one
> should expect, and if they aren't met, cutting and running is a perfectly reasonable
> option.

i wonder about this. surely, schools asking for visas and work permits for foreigners have to demonstrate that these same foreigners won't be a drag or a negative impact on the host country, right? there must be some sort of responsibility on the part of the school or business, whichever term is more relevant. i know for certain, in the schools i have worked for, they had to demonstrate to the government that the person they were hiring would be paid properly and enough that they wouldn't be applying for social assistance. at another school, i had to submit bank records when applying for visas to show that i wasn't just going to be a parasite.

if this dude is living in a hostel and the school isn't helping in any way, it must not be an international school. i'm guessing a language/english academy or part time in a local school. i just don't know how this happens. we haven't from the OP in a while though, so maybe he figured it out....?

h1275
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:55 pm

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by h1275 »

Heliotrope:

And if I was caught, I'd be fired, as that behaviour isn't up to the standard that (most) admin would believe is acceptable.

Just because I might behave 'unacceptably' to some paper pusher who spends his day watching youtube, doesn't mean I'm going to accept bad behaviour that affects me.

Vandsmith:

Perhaps, but even if there is no 'legal' obligation at all, there certainly is an obligation to ensure your foreign employee has a place to sleep for the night. Just basic standards of decency.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by Heliotrope »

h1275 wrote:
> And if I was caught, I'd be fired, as that behaviour isn't up to the
> standard that (most) admin would believe is acceptable.

It's behaviour 99% of all people would think is unacceptable.


> Just because I might behave 'unacceptably' to some paper pusher who spends
> his day watching youtube, doesn't mean I'm going to accept bad behaviour
> that affects me.

Grow up man, most admin probably work harder than you do.
Yes, their pay might be too high compared to a teachers salary, but quit justifying your unethical behaviour with their supposed cushy life – many admins I know make a lot more hours than the average teachers, and none of them watch YouTube videos during work hours. And even if they did, there's no excuse for your unethical behaviour.


> Perhaps, but even if there is no 'legal' obligation at all, there certainly
> is an obligation to ensure your foreign employee has a place to sleep for
> the night. Just basic standards of decency.

You're talking about decency? Haha!

PsyGuy
Posts: 9405
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Yes it is. An IS with bad HR is a bad IS, just as a person with a diseased arm has a diseased body. Leaving someone to shuffle from hostel to hostel for a bed every night is beyond the pale of bad.
No you havent those ISs with poo HR were poo ISs.
ISs put you up in a hotel for some time, not a hostel which is basically a dormitory and this IS didnt even do that, they couldnt even get the IT a stable bed for a week.
I concur with @h1275 securing an apartment/flat for the long term without the assistance of your IS is going to cost a lot of coin you arent going to gt back when the IT realizes they need to execute their exit strategy.

Do you have a source for this 99% statistic, or is this just a claim of @Heliotrope?
No leadership works harder than an IT. Success as an IT is learning and developing efficiencies so that you work less. Early career ITS struggle with much more work because they havent developed the routines and materials that make the job easier.
What would be an excuse for what @Heliotrope defines as unethical behavior (you are just repping yourself right, your not repping some group or organization, your just writing for @Heliotrope?). You dont have some authoritative code of IT ethics to cite do you? What @h1275 is describing behavior wise is unethical because @Heliotrope claims its unethical and your claim of 99% unacceptability is just one you conjured on the wind right?

Even assuming its true, that leadership put in more hours, its what the nature of those hours include. Working a few more hours on the job that involves watching cat videos on you tube, spinning around in their swivel chair or 'meetings' is not the same caliber of work as an IT in a classroom of students.

Yes, @h1275 is taking about decency. ITs and their ISs and by proxy their leadership are in a relationship, one that both parties want to work, and work well. That relationship probably isnt sustainable if the IS neglects the basic needs of the IT. How does what this IS is doing equate to a healthy relationship? Relationships can usually tolerate a certain amount of subterfuge and deception and still be healthy, ignoring basic needs typically does not.

@SJ

How is that in any way relevant? Is there any IS thats bound by anything to assist an IT is securing housing? Is there a "local labour laws and taxation laws" that would mandate an IS to offer assistance in finding housing?

@vandsmith

True in some regions, recruiters and ISs are required to show they are providing some minimal standard of coin to secure a visa. Im unaware though of any requirement to settle an IT within a specific period of time or that there is a minimum quality of housing mandated.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> Yes it is. An IS with bad HR is a bad IS, just as a person with a diseased
> arm has a diseased body.

The rest of the body can still work fine. Don't discount a person based on a disability.


> Leaving someone to shuffle from hostel to hostel
> for a bed every night is beyond the pale of bad.

It's not helping with accommodation that is bad. The 'shuffle from hostel to hostel' is due to the hostel being overcrowded.
As said, there are affordable month-long options on Airbnb.
But I agree, the HR department should have sorted something out.


> I concur with @h1275 securing an apartment/flat for the long term without
> the assistance of your IS is going to cost a lot of coin you arent going to
> gt back when the IT realizes they need to execute their exit strategy.

That's why I wouldn't sign anything long term right away, but give it a month to see how the rest of the school performs. If fellow teachers say it's a decent place to work despite 'hostel-gate', then you can look at signing a lease.


> Do you have a source for this 99% statistic, or is this just a claim of
> @Heliotrope?

It's a guess based my interactions with all the people I've gotten to know throughout my life. But I have to admit, it might be 97%.


> Even assuming its true, that leadership put in more hours, its what the
> nature of those hours include. Working a few more hours on the job that
> involves watching cat videos on you tube, spinning around in their swivel
> chair or 'meetings' is not the same caliber of work as an IT in a
> classroom of students.

My principal eats dinner in their office 4 days a week, sees their kids only just before they go to sleep on those days, and works most of their weekend as well. Also working during holiday breaks while we teachers are scuba diving. That's not watching cat videos, that's working hard. They do get paid handsomely for it, but let's not discount the hours of hard work they put in.

Nexttrip
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by Nexttrip »

Heliotrope wrote:

> My principal eats dinner in their office 4 days a week, sees their kids only just
> before they go to sleep on those days, and works most of their weekend as well.
> Also working during holiday breaks while we teachers are scuba diving. That's not
> watching cat videos, that's working hard. They do get paid handsomely for it, but
> let's not discount the hours of hard work they put in.

This has been my experience as well with the majority of the admin with whom I have worked (although I've worked in a lot of Tier 1 schools). My admins, in general, have been super workaholics and were/are often the first in, last to leave, rarely eat lunch type of workers. Most of the time, I wish they would get more of a work/life balance to take a bit of the pressure off the rest of us who, although we are good at what we do, aspire to have a work/life balance.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by Heliotrope »

Nexttrip wrote:
> Most of the time, I wish they would get more of a work/life
> balance to take a bit of the pressure off the rest of us who, although we are good at
> what we do, aspire to have a work/life balance.

Even though it's tier 1, at my school most teachers leave for home at around 3:30pm and there's no pressure from admin to stay longer, as long as you get your work done. Some teachers still do some work at home, some do stay longer at school because they prefer to keep home and work separate, and others get everything done before 3:30pm.
A friend of mine is currently working at a tier 1 where teachers boast about how many hours they put in, so there is some peer pressure there to work late, but according to my friend admin just looks at results and not the number of hours you worked.

PsyGuy
Posts: 9405
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

No, I didnt state disability, I stated disease.

An IS tolerating or standing aside while an IT shuffles from hostel to hostel because of overcrowding is a bad IS. Not that its relevant but the IS did absolutely nothing.

Again, the IT cant even find a place to sign a long term lease at.

Its a guess that might be 1%.

A principal I know "eats breakfast 300 yards from 4000 Cubans who are trained to kill them".
Again, its not the quantity its the quality.
No, thats working inefficiently. You are confusing effort with work.

wander
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:05 pm

Re: Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?

Post by wander »

This doesn't sound like a legitimate school is my first thought. I would try to find a way to get settled but also develop an exit plan.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> No, I didnt state disability, I stated disease.

Then replace 'disability' with 'disease'.
Not all diseases spread to the rest of the body.


> An IS tolerating or standing aside while an IT shuffles from hostel to
> hostel because of overcrowding is a bad IS. Not that its relevant but the
> IS did absolutely nothing.

Yeah, that's a bad HR department.


> Again, the IT cant even find a place to sign a long term lease at.

They can get a cheap Airbnb for a month tomorrow to get a chance to talk to the current teaching staff to find out if it's just a HR department or if the IS is bad overall.


> Its a guess that might be 1%.

It's much closer to 99%.


> A principal I know "eats breakfast 300 yards from 4000 Cubans who are
> trained to kill them".
> Again, its not the quantity its the quality.
> No, thats working inefficiently. You are confusing effort with work.

It might be the inability to delegate, but all Heads I've known work hard. There will be some that don't, just as there are teachers that don't work hard enough to justify their salaries. Most Heads and most teachers do work hard however, and make an honest effort to do their job well, and in general Heads make quite few more hours than teachers, and work part of the teacher's holidays.

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