@wander
Whats not legitimate about W.T.Sampson EHS?
https://www.dodea.edu/WTsampsonEHS/about.cfm
@Heliotrope
No, but they exist in the whole of the body thus the body is diseased.
A bad HR department is a bad IS.
See above; bad HR = bad IS
They possibly maybe could get a long term ABnB, you dont know that they can.
No, its much closer to 1%
No, they just know how to make it look like they are working hard.
Whats your obsession with working hard. Noobs work hard because they dont have any other options. The true measure and mark of a successful IT is figuring out the most efficient means of achieving outcomes, of how to do the least amount of work to be successful. Working hard is just saying I dont know any other way to do this.
Feeling very stressed in my new city - Advice?
-
Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> No, but they exist in the whole of the body thus the body is diseased.
Even if the arm is diseased, the rest of the body can still work properly.
> A bad HR department is a bad IS.
Nope, if the rest of the IS is great, then it could still be a decent place to work, albeit with some minor or major inconveniences, depending on how HR handles their other tasks.
> They possibly maybe could get a long term ABnB, you dont know that they
> can.
If you go to Airbnb right now, you'll see that it's indeed possible, and that it's surprisingly cheap.
> No, its much closer to 1%
We disagree.
> No, they just know how to make it look like they are working hard.
> Whats your obsession with working hard.
What's your obsession with always painting leadership in such a bad light?
They are just like teachers: most work hard and most try to do the right thing.
They get paid more. So what? They make more hours, have shorter holidays, and have more responsibilities.
> The true measure and mark of a successful IT is
> figuring out the most efficient means of achieving outcomes, of how to do
> the least amount of work to be successful. Working hard is just saying I
> dont know any other way to do this.
The best ITs I know are all very efficient, but use the time they free up by being efficient to further enrich their lessons, or take up other tasks within the department, because they want their students to have the best experience.
Same goes for leadership, they're not inefficient, but do more than they have to, as there's always more that can be done at a school. They feel responsible, just like the teachers I described.
Of course teachers are free to not further enrich their lessons or volunteer to get involved in initiatives, and use the time freed up by becoming more efficient for leisure. Nothing wrong with that.
> No, but they exist in the whole of the body thus the body is diseased.
Even if the arm is diseased, the rest of the body can still work properly.
> A bad HR department is a bad IS.
Nope, if the rest of the IS is great, then it could still be a decent place to work, albeit with some minor or major inconveniences, depending on how HR handles their other tasks.
> They possibly maybe could get a long term ABnB, you dont know that they
> can.
If you go to Airbnb right now, you'll see that it's indeed possible, and that it's surprisingly cheap.
> No, its much closer to 1%
We disagree.
> No, they just know how to make it look like they are working hard.
> Whats your obsession with working hard.
What's your obsession with always painting leadership in such a bad light?
They are just like teachers: most work hard and most try to do the right thing.
They get paid more. So what? They make more hours, have shorter holidays, and have more responsibilities.
> The true measure and mark of a successful IT is
> figuring out the most efficient means of achieving outcomes, of how to do
> the least amount of work to be successful. Working hard is just saying I
> dont know any other way to do this.
The best ITs I know are all very efficient, but use the time they free up by being efficient to further enrich their lessons, or take up other tasks within the department, because they want their students to have the best experience.
Same goes for leadership, they're not inefficient, but do more than they have to, as there's always more that can be done at a school. They feel responsible, just like the teachers I described.
Of course teachers are free to not further enrich their lessons or volunteer to get involved in initiatives, and use the time freed up by becoming more efficient for leisure. Nothing wrong with that.
Reply
@Heliotrope
The arm that is diseased could also work properly, disease need not be debilitating. The body as a whole is still diseased. If you have a cancerous tumor in your arm, you have cancer.
No, an IS is only as good as its weakest property. IS quality is not compensatory. Deficits in one factor can not be compensated for with superiority in other factors.
Available doesnt mean possible.
Yes, we disagree, mainly because youre wrong.
Not an obsession, I have on a number of occasions come to the defense of leadership in the past.
No, they arent like teachers. Those that can do, those that cant teach and those that cant teach administrate. The skill sets between ITs and leadership are vastly different. Its the equivalent of comparing a hospital surgeon to a hospital administrator. Ones praxis is medicine the others praxis is business.
Coin matters, because its coin, its a primary enforcer, or do you not take the coin your IS offers?
They dont make more hours, but not relevant its not the quantity of work its the quality.
No they dont have more responsibilities, but assuming they did, again its not the quantity of responsibility its the quality of responsibility. As an IT your responsibility is educating the future of civilization, as a leader your responsibility is too hold meetings and sign documents.
We know different ITs. Even granting that this is true for you, efficient is not sufficient on its on, you need to be efficient and effective, and if your lessons are effective and efficient there is nothing left to do with lesson construction or curriculum design or enriching students experience. When the meal is done, you step back, and serve it, endless tinkering just makes people hungry. You are fooling no one who knows that tinkering with effective and efficient lessons is nothing more than self imposed busy work with the intent of nothing more than generating the appearance of looking busy.
No, there is not always more to be done. Exceptional leaders have the time to spin in their swivel chairs and watch cat videos because they have implemented policies and procedures and delegation that results in them having nothing to do but build ships in bottles, etc.
Wù Jí Bì Fǎn; the concept of moderation also applies to enrichment.
The arm that is diseased could also work properly, disease need not be debilitating. The body as a whole is still diseased. If you have a cancerous tumor in your arm, you have cancer.
No, an IS is only as good as its weakest property. IS quality is not compensatory. Deficits in one factor can not be compensated for with superiority in other factors.
Available doesnt mean possible.
Yes, we disagree, mainly because youre wrong.
Not an obsession, I have on a number of occasions come to the defense of leadership in the past.
No, they arent like teachers. Those that can do, those that cant teach and those that cant teach administrate. The skill sets between ITs and leadership are vastly different. Its the equivalent of comparing a hospital surgeon to a hospital administrator. Ones praxis is medicine the others praxis is business.
Coin matters, because its coin, its a primary enforcer, or do you not take the coin your IS offers?
They dont make more hours, but not relevant its not the quantity of work its the quality.
No they dont have more responsibilities, but assuming they did, again its not the quantity of responsibility its the quality of responsibility. As an IT your responsibility is educating the future of civilization, as a leader your responsibility is too hold meetings and sign documents.
We know different ITs. Even granting that this is true for you, efficient is not sufficient on its on, you need to be efficient and effective, and if your lessons are effective and efficient there is nothing left to do with lesson construction or curriculum design or enriching students experience. When the meal is done, you step back, and serve it, endless tinkering just makes people hungry. You are fooling no one who knows that tinkering with effective and efficient lessons is nothing more than self imposed busy work with the intent of nothing more than generating the appearance of looking busy.
No, there is not always more to be done. Exceptional leaders have the time to spin in their swivel chairs and watch cat videos because they have implemented policies and procedures and delegation that results in them having nothing to do but build ships in bottles, etc.
Wù Jí Bì Fǎn; the concept of moderation also applies to enrichment.
-
Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> The arm that is diseased could also work properly, disease need not be
> debilitating. The body as a whole is still diseased. If you have a
> cancerous tumor in your arm, you have cancer.
If it works properly, all the better. But in this case the arm (HR) doesn't work properly. The rest of the body might still work fine though, but that's for the OP to find out by talking to his colleagues, and make a decision based on that.
> No, an IS is only as good as its weakest property. IS quality is not
> compensatory. Deficits in one factor can not be compensated for with
> superiority in other factors.
We disagree.
And sure it can be.
> Available doesnt mean possible.
It's available, so it's possible. Cheaper than a typical hostel, so possible for anyone who signs up for Airbnb.
> Yes, we disagree, mainly because youre wrong.
Well, obviously I think you are wrong, so yes, we disagree.
> Not an obsession, I have on a number of occasions come to the defense of
> leadership in the past.
I've noticed that generally you are very anti-admin, in a defeatist way sometimes.
But I'll believe you when you say you've come to the defense of leadership, perhaps I've missed those posts.
> No, they arent like teachers. Those that can do, those that cant teach and
> those that cant teach administrate. The skill sets between ITs and
> leadership are vastly different. Its the equivalent of comparing a
> hospital surgeon to a hospital administrator. Ones praxis is medicine the
> others praxis is business.
I didn't say they have the same skill set.
If you read my reply again, you'll see I said: "They are just like teachers: most work hard and most try to do the right thing."
> Coin matters, because its coin, its a primary enforcer, or do you not take
> the coin your IS offers?
Yes. So?
Do you think they should get paid the same as teachers?
I'm ok with them making more money. I wouldn't want those hours and that many days. I prefer teaching, I enjoy the time off to travel, and my salary is more than adequate.
> They dont make more hours, but not relevant its not the quantity of work
> its the quality.
They make way more hours than teachers at all the schools I've worked at.
Nothing wrong with the quality of their work either.
It's both quality and quantity for most admins I know, but I've had the fortune of working for some good ones. I'm sure plenty of admins are less capable, just as there are plenty of teachers who do the bare minimum or less.
> We know different ITs. Even granting that this is true for you, efficient
> is not sufficient on its on, you need to be efficient and effective, and if
> your lessons are effective and efficient there is nothing left to do with
> lesson construction or curriculum design or enriching students experience.
You can always do better. And for many of my colleagues, that seems to be their mantra.
> No, there is not always more to be done.
You can always do better. And for many of my admins, that seems to be their mantra.
> @Heliotrope
>
> The arm that is diseased could also work properly, disease need not be
> debilitating. The body as a whole is still diseased. If you have a
> cancerous tumor in your arm, you have cancer.
If it works properly, all the better. But in this case the arm (HR) doesn't work properly. The rest of the body might still work fine though, but that's for the OP to find out by talking to his colleagues, and make a decision based on that.
> No, an IS is only as good as its weakest property. IS quality is not
> compensatory. Deficits in one factor can not be compensated for with
> superiority in other factors.
We disagree.
And sure it can be.
> Available doesnt mean possible.
It's available, so it's possible. Cheaper than a typical hostel, so possible for anyone who signs up for Airbnb.
> Yes, we disagree, mainly because youre wrong.
Well, obviously I think you are wrong, so yes, we disagree.
> Not an obsession, I have on a number of occasions come to the defense of
> leadership in the past.
I've noticed that generally you are very anti-admin, in a defeatist way sometimes.
But I'll believe you when you say you've come to the defense of leadership, perhaps I've missed those posts.
> No, they arent like teachers. Those that can do, those that cant teach and
> those that cant teach administrate. The skill sets between ITs and
> leadership are vastly different. Its the equivalent of comparing a
> hospital surgeon to a hospital administrator. Ones praxis is medicine the
> others praxis is business.
I didn't say they have the same skill set.
If you read my reply again, you'll see I said: "They are just like teachers: most work hard and most try to do the right thing."
> Coin matters, because its coin, its a primary enforcer, or do you not take
> the coin your IS offers?
Yes. So?
Do you think they should get paid the same as teachers?
I'm ok with them making more money. I wouldn't want those hours and that many days. I prefer teaching, I enjoy the time off to travel, and my salary is more than adequate.
> They dont make more hours, but not relevant its not the quantity of work
> its the quality.
They make way more hours than teachers at all the schools I've worked at.
Nothing wrong with the quality of their work either.
It's both quality and quantity for most admins I know, but I've had the fortune of working for some good ones. I'm sure plenty of admins are less capable, just as there are plenty of teachers who do the bare minimum or less.
> We know different ITs. Even granting that this is true for you, efficient
> is not sufficient on its on, you need to be efficient and effective, and if
> your lessons are effective and efficient there is nothing left to do with
> lesson construction or curriculum design or enriching students experience.
You can always do better. And for many of my colleagues, that seems to be their mantra.
> No, there is not always more to be done.
You can always do better. And for many of my admins, that seems to be their mantra.
Reply
@Heliotrope
No, it doesnt work fine, because HR is broken. We disagree.
No, it cant. We disagree.
No, available does not equal possible, and it may not be possible. We disagree.
No, "generally" isnt an obsession. Its not defeatist its realism. You missed those posts. We disagree.
No, I read your post, leaders are not just like teachers. We disagree.
So, coin matters. I dont have a position on the issue of IT and leadership compensation disparity to the extent such a disparity exists.. A number of ITs would justify greater compensation than leadership.
We disagree that those differences exist.
No, it doesnt work fine, because HR is broken. We disagree.
No, it cant. We disagree.
No, available does not equal possible, and it may not be possible. We disagree.
No, "generally" isnt an obsession. Its not defeatist its realism. You missed those posts. We disagree.
No, I read your post, leaders are not just like teachers. We disagree.
So, coin matters. I dont have a position on the issue of IT and leadership compensation disparity to the extent such a disparity exists.. A number of ITs would justify greater compensation than leadership.
We disagree that those differences exist.
-
Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> No, it doesnt work fine, because HR is broken. We disagree.
I said HR was broken. The rest might still work fine.
> No, it cant. We disagree.
It can. We disagree.
> No, available does not equal possible, and it may not be possible. We
> disagree.
I can book it in under 5 minutes. So yes, possible.
> No, "generally" isnt an obsession. Its not defeatist its realism.
Spoken like a true defeatist.
> You missed those posts. We disagree.
Yes.
> No, I read your post, leaders are not just like teachers. We disagree.
They are in those respects. We disagree.
> So, coin matters. I dont have a position on the issue of IT and leadership
> compensation disparity to the extent such a disparity exists.. A number of
> ITs would justify greater compensation than leadership.
> We disagree that those differences exist.
We disagree.
> @Heliotrope
>
> No, it doesnt work fine, because HR is broken. We disagree.
I said HR was broken. The rest might still work fine.
> No, it cant. We disagree.
It can. We disagree.
> No, available does not equal possible, and it may not be possible. We
> disagree.
I can book it in under 5 minutes. So yes, possible.
> No, "generally" isnt an obsession. Its not defeatist its realism.
Spoken like a true defeatist.
> You missed those posts. We disagree.
Yes.
> No, I read your post, leaders are not just like teachers. We disagree.
They are in those respects. We disagree.
> So, coin matters. I dont have a position on the issue of IT and leadership
> compensation disparity to the extent such a disparity exists.. A number of
> ITs would justify greater compensation than leadership.
> We disagree that those differences exist.
We disagree.
Reply
@Heliotrope
No, the whole doesnt work fine, because HR is broken. We disagree.
It cant and it doesnt, we disagree.
You can, you are not everybody. Your availability and ability is not universal availability, thats TPF. What if the LW doesnt have a bank card, etc.
No, they arent, we disagree.
No, the whole doesnt work fine, because HR is broken. We disagree.
It cant and it doesnt, we disagree.
You can, you are not everybody. Your availability and ability is not universal availability, thats TPF. What if the LW doesnt have a bank card, etc.
No, they arent, we disagree.
-
Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
It has been pointed out in another thread that our back and forths are not productive.
Even though I disagree with most or all of what you've just said, I'll refrain from replying, and trust other people's judgement to identify misinformation or opinions stated as fact as such in any of your (or my) replies.
Even though I disagree with most or all of what you've just said, I'll refrain from replying, and trust other people's judgement to identify misinformation or opinions stated as fact as such in any of your (or my) replies.