contract back out repercussions

brillo
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:30 am

contract back out repercussions

Post by brillo »

So our school asked for contracts to be signed this December, it used to be January.

I was feeling pretty happy (end of term mood) and signed.

Now some excellent vacancies are up in considerably better cities, with considerably better packages.

If I were to back out of the new contract, what would the repercussions be? Is it that much of a 'big deal' or is it pretty common?

Thank you for your insight.

sid
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by sid »

Depends on your school, and they matter hugely. If you try to back out, they might refuse to give you letters of reference, which will make it pretty hard to get into a better school with a better package. Similar problem if you try to apply without telling them - you won't get too far without needing a reference.

In some schools, with a sympathetic head, they might be ok with you changing your mind at this point. It is ONLY December, after all. If you're going to try it, try sooner rather than later.

Quite probably a huge debate will follow about the ethics of this type of move. Again. It's been done. We all have our entrenched opinions.

brillo
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:30 am

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by brillo »

Thanks for the response :)

I'll think on it over Christmas, they haven't started advertising yet so I suspect that they're waiting for people to come back in the new year and say they've changed their minds. It's very much a tier 2/3 school so we were all a bit miffed at being asked this early on.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by Heliotrope »

Signing in December isn't very early, it's pretty standard actually. It might feel early for you because you're used to a January signing. With the exception of Western Europe, there will probably be more re-signings in November than January.

Every year there will be excellent vacancies in nice cities with good packages, but it sounds like you're surprised by it. Are you teaching a very niche subject, for which there are rarely vacancies?

I'm one of those with an entrenched opinion, which is that you signed a contract and you should honor it, just as we expect schools to honor the contracts. You could have know there would be interesting vacancies, so that shouldn't be a reason to change your mind now.
But if you have a sympathetic Head, you could float the idea and see what he/she says. Just be willing to honor your commitment if (s)he doesn't like it, as it will be hard to get another job without his/her support.

PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

I would concur with @Sid in part, that it really depends what your leadership thinks. It is only December and while peak recruiting season is right around the corner, its not here yet (you have about a week) and if your IS has a sizable recruiting burden ahead of them, one more vacancy isnt that big of a deal (unless your leadership wants to make it a big deal). Thats different if your vacancy changes their recruiting strategy, such as attending a fair, etc.
Where I dont agree is in the difficulty of doing it without your current leadership, but it depends on a number of factors, chiefly among them is that if you stealth recruit and you ghost your current IS what will your resume look like? If it still has marketability for positions at those ISs you want you dont have to worry about repercussions. If it leaves a pretty big gap that you cant fix, then its likely you are going to have some issue with your resumes utility.

The other problem is that, even if your IS does let you out and they cooperate in terms of references and everything, it still leaves you in the same position as most ITs. Just because those better vacancies are available doesnt mean you will get one and you will not have the safety of your current IS to come back to if it doesnt work out for you. If your IS lets you withdraw your renewal then they have to recruit to fill your position, and you dont have a position to come back to. You will have to find a new job regardless and it might not be one of those better ISs or more desirable regions.

I am entrenched in the other camps philosophy. The "word is your bond" is not a suicide pact and smart people change their minds when the data and metrics change. In no other profession if a better offer came around would you be faulted by going with the better deal, not doing so is what many people would call "stupid". If you were a data scientist with Acme technology and Apple came calling youd be a nutter to stay with Acme if Apple offered you a better deal. If you were a doctor working in some rural clinic and the Mayo clinic came knocking youd be a nutter to stay in the boonies for a better offer. If you were a footballer for the Letchworth club and Manchester United came knocking youd be dumb not to take that deal. Why would IE be any different, oh right because it makes the job of recruiters and leadership MUCH harder. You dont need your current ISs leadership or IS at a if another IS wants you.

I also concur in part with @Heliotrope, in that December isnt early for notice at all, its getting earlier and earlier but October is common.

vandsmith
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:16 am

Re: Response

Post by vandsmith »

.
>
> I also concur in part with @Heliotrope, in that December isnt early for
> notice at all, its getting earlier and earlier but October is common.

october is common? i've never heard of an october date! i guess if GRC keeps getting bigger it will be.

shadowjack
Posts: 1900
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by shadowjack »

I know of at least one school that was early/mid November but is not late SEPTEMBER!

PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

Intent letters are commonly required around Halloween which is October and have been around that date for sometime.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by Heliotrope »

vandsmith wrote:
> october is common? i've never heard of an october date! i guess if GRC keeps
> getting bigger it will be.

All schools I've worked at, and the majority of the ISs that I know about require your intent in either November or December.

h1275
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:55 pm

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by h1275 »

Just cancel the contract with the first school and take the better offer. In any other industry, an employee who gets an offer for more money/a nicer location/better career prospects would drop their old employer without a care in the world, and it's no different here. You have to look after number 1, no one else will.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by Heliotrope »

h1275 wrote:
> Just cancel the contract with the first school and take the better offer.
> In any other industry, an employee who gets an offer for more money/a nicer
> location/better career prospects would drop their old employer without a
> care in the world, and it's no different here. You have to look after
> number 1, no one else will.

What better offer? Read the OP's question again.

h1275
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:55 pm

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by h1275 »

Heliotrope wrote:
> h1275 wrote:
> > Just cancel the contract with the first school and take the better offer.
> > In any other industry, an employee who gets an offer for more money/a nicer
> > location/better career prospects would drop their old employer without a
> > care in the world, and it's no different here. You have to look after
> > number 1, no one else will.
>
> What better offer? Read the OP's question again.

This of course assumes the OP gets one of those nice positions, otherwise the point is moot.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by Heliotrope »

h1275 wrote:
> This of course assumes the OP gets one of those nice positions, otherwise the point
> is moot.

Well, you have to cancel your current contract first before getting another offer, since they will definitely contact your current school if you're applying anywhere else, and if they hear that you just signed your contract your current school will likely fire you for applying elsewhere after signing, and that other school will no longer want to hire you for the same reason.

h1275
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:55 pm

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by h1275 »

Heliotrope wrote:
> h1275 wrote:
> > This of course assumes the OP gets one of those nice positions, otherwise the
> point
> > is moot.
>
> Well, you have to cancel your current contract first before getting another offer,
> since they will definitely contact your current school if you're applying anywhere
> else, and if they hear that you just signed your contract your current school will
> likely fire you for applying elsewhere after signing, and that other school will no
> longer want to hire you for the same reason.

Then weigh up the chances of obtaining one of those positions vs the risk of quitting and getting nothing. 'Loyalty' or 'sticking to your word' shouldn't come into it, however.

Heliotrope
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: contract back out repercussions

Post by Heliotrope »

h1275 wrote:
> Then weigh up the chances of obtaining one of those positions vs the risk of quitting
> and getting nothing. 'Loyalty' or 'sticking to your word' shouldn't come into it,
> however.

You don't understand the hiring process, do you?
To get a shot at one of those positions you will first have to rip up the contract you just signed at your current school, which will lead to them giving you a bad reference (and possible firing you on the spot), which in turn will make sure you DON'T get one of those positions because any school will want a reference from your last school.
So there you are, possibly without a job for the next six months, without a chance at a job at a better school. Good luck getting into a better school if you ghost that current job. Also, the reference from the school before your current one might mention your current (ghosted) school to any potential new employer.
Great advice!

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