possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

chiliverde
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possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by chiliverde »

Anyone familiar with my posts on this forum will have seen that this past year we have been looking at all the possibilities for our future as a family. Here's the current thinking and rundown:

I am a Pre-K-5 classroom teacher with 15 years of experience in international schools. Currently teaching at a Tier 1/2 in Bangkok.

Husband is seriously thinking of switching careers to teaching, upper grades, and doing the Teach Now certification. Right now we are doing research and he is observing in classrooms.

Husband is a French citizen, functionally fluent in English but not at the academic level, which might prove problematic for editing/correcting papers in English, etc.

He has two masters, one in Journalism and an MBA. Are we too optimistic in thinking he has broad potential content areas given his background? We are cognizant of the fact that he would be handicapped by not being a native speaker. He also knows that French would be a clear path that would make sense, so we'd be interested in suggestions for how to increase his qualifications in this content area beyond just being a native speaker.

Obviously, content area knowledge is an important start, but far from everything. Our plan, if he gets certified, is to stay in Asia for a few more years so he can get experience, ideally in IB, and then aim for a mid to top tier school in Europe. Obviously the safer financial choice is staying in Asia longer than this, but we would like to be closer to family and live an overall European lifestyle, if possible. We have two young children.

We would love to hear any advice on what we should be taking into consideration at this point, given our situation, be it additional qualifications or experiences my husband should look in to, and how marketable we might be when we eventually get him past NQT status. Journalism is proving an impossible field, so we're hoping that all possible futures are at least sunnier than what we are looking at now.

TIA
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Whats the spouse want to do?
They have a degree in journalism and while thats great for an ELA elective or an ASAP for the IS paper its very different from making them a literary scholar. Add that to not being an NES, and having zero experience and thats a really lite resume and a difficult sell. If they focus more on the MBA whats their business experience and their subject competency? There isnt a lot of (if any) economics below SLL, even with business your still looking at being limited to upper secondary for an IT who has no experience and may not have a background in economics beyond a course in micro/macro economics, and with no exam scores, your not looking at even a mid tier IS thats going to give an IT SLL to make a FTE schedule. Add some other social studies/humanities fields and your more marketable because you can fill a lower secondary appointment, but thats a huge risk for an IS to put an IT with that resume in an SLL subject. That leaves french which is interesting since they are a native speaker, because it opens up the opportunity of teaching at a FS/lycee where the NES issue of being a literature IT is moot. They would be far more marketable as a modern language IT, because qualifications matter less than fluency.
Which brings the conversation to you, your going to have to play a significant role in getting your spouse an offer, to the point that your either at such low tier ISs that they are desperate that you can make a spousal appointment part of the deal for the IS to get you, or you have to be such a super star elementary IT (and by that I mean are you in the same list as Maria Montessori) that upper tier ISs wont blink about an appointment for the spouse to get you.

What your spouse needs is experience and its going to be difficult and/or painful to get it with the resume your spouse has. The best place to start would be your current IS, and see if they would be interested in keeping you for another couple years and give the spouse an appointment as part of the deal. This would give them a classroom from which to explore the various credentialing options.
Id hold off on the Skills based pathway such as Teach Now or Teach Ready, and look into getting a MA provisional credential in literature or business (depending on the extent of his MBA and business background). The MTEL exam for those subjects can be taken in a lot of global locations minimizing travel. Then use that credential and try mock recruiting, and see what interest they get and what feedback your spouse gets.
chiliverde
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by chiliverde »

Thank you, Psy.

My whole career has been in international elementary, so my knowledge of upper level credentialing is really limited. My understanding (possibly wrong) is that it's possible to get credentialed in different areas at the upper level by taking multiple Praxis tests. Of course no amount of credentialing equals any amount of experience, which is why we getting his foot on that initial rung and into the classroom will be important. I'll look into getting him in at my school, but not sure it's possible given reasons I'd rather not get into. Failing this, at least Teach Now gives him the mentorship, in addition to the pedagogy and educational theory that he will need. As much as we'd love to save 6k, we don't know if it's the right choice with his profile. That said, will definitely look into the MA credential and mock recruiting as a short term option.

In terms of what he would like to do, he feels the most confident pursuing teaching French, but doesn't want to limit himself or his marketability. Economics and history is a stretch, but with his background, perhaps lower level math and media studies? We figured that more certs would make him more marketable, but are willing to be corrected on this.

We figure we'd also face a possibility of eventually being hired in the same city, different schools, either due to lack of available jobs or our differences in profile/experience. Thinking of ultimately looking to francophone countries (Belgium in particular) that has a great school I could aim for, and some lesser ones for him, as well as backup for me. This would be in a few years after he gets more experience here in BKK.

What else should we be keeping in mind?
blinky
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by blinky »

With an MBA, he should market himself as an IB business studies and DP Econ teacher. His MBA is his most valuable degree. DP Econ is being taught by many people without an Econ or Business degree at all, or people with just a BBA and cert. Econ is in high demand in Asia.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@chiliverde

Yes, there are states that allow additional endorsements to be added through various professional testing (such as PRAXIS), thee arent typically limited to single content subjects but can include SPED/SEN/LD, primary, ESOL, etc.

He needs to get in the classroom though at the TOR, you cant piecemeal or cobble together FTE experience from various types of PTE experience at least not for the entirety of the ITs experience. An It with 2 years of FTE experience, followed by two years of PTE experience and then another year of FTE experience has the potential thats at least in the realm of possibility of getting that 2 years of PTE experience to count for 1 year of FTE experience for salary. An IT though whose entire record of experience is PTE or substitute/relief/supply teaching or ET experience counts for zero.

Teach Now doesnt provide mentorship, not in anyway you would reasonably define mentorship. They lay almost the entirety of mentorship, resourcing and guidance on the field work mentoring IT and its IS. Unless your problem is with your IS and your supervising IT/leadership they ill tell you to go and talk to them.
ell there certainly is some meds/peds/asst theory that he will get, I wouldnt say it met the threshold of what an IT needs though to go out on their own and make it happen. Part of the problem is the time frame for studies, there just isnt the time there to make connections. Its little more than a different format for reading a teaching for dummies guide or creating a chef by giving them a cook book. The other part is that the material like the vast number of EPP/ITT programs is far more to the side of theory and scholarship than it is to practitioner and application. Its akin to the difference between being a physicist and being an engineer.
Teach Now though will give him something, there is value in what they provide, far more than an assessment based pathway that measures how well you can navigate selected response tests than it does your actual knowledge of teaching and being able to apply and create with it in the classroom.

Thats why I suggest pursuing the MA provisional, assessment pathway, credential. It will allow them to check off the "certified/credentialed" box and find out what their marketability and utility is, whose willing to pay coin to have them in their classroom, and at what tier and region of opportunities does that happen. The goal of this is getting passed the screening barrier, since a lot of ISs and opportunities above the bottom third tier will bin/trash applications that dont check that "certified/credentialed" box without investing USD$6K in a EPP/ITT program.

Every IT has to face the issue that whatever you do limits your marketability to do anything and everything else. Any time you spend building experience in teaching X is experience your NOT teaching Y. Those choices and those experiences create limitations. Your spouse will be better off committing to a pathway to maximize the most utility going forward a opposed to testing the waters looking for a spot thats slightly more advantageous. These arent forks in the road that cant be explored again in the future, just understanding that going back means going back in your career progression, but decision paralysis isnt any better.

I dont know what his MBA was in or what his applicable business experience was in (or if he ever even used it). If his MBA focus was economics and he worked as an economist or a business economics journalist, hes probably okay pursing economics and business studies as a subject field. If the MBA was a generalist program and he never used it for anything, than I can see why you might reach the conclusion it a stretch.
Lower secondary and primary maths presents a challenge, most ISs dont want to handicap themselves with a maths teacher thats limited and many of the smaller ISs and lower tier ISs are going to want a maths IT that can do all levels. The marketability and demand of an IT drops significantly if they cant do calculus, and drops to even with other secondary saturated subject fields if they cant do algebra.
Media studies is rarely a FTE position, theres a handful of vacancies every year but without experience in it with a mostly empty resume they could be waiting forever to get an appointment thats likely never going to come. In the other scenario media studies is an elective with ITs having a course load of other humanities and literature courses.
More endorsements do have value, up to a point. That point being somewhere between 4 and 6 endorsements depending on the fields, beyond that your seen less as a specialist with multiple competencies and more and more as a generalist who isnt an expert in anything. Further, as has been discussed experience is king compared to endorsements, credentials make you legal, they provide some assurance you know which side of the room to stand on, but experience is what gets recruiters and leadership to pull the trigger.

Get them in a classroom, the edu field has a really high turnover rate and figuring out if this sis something your spouse can do as a career is the priority, then figure out what teaching direction they are going to go. I concur with @blinky there are a lot of ITs teaching economics and business without an academic background in it at all, but they are comfortable teaching the subject, if your spouse isnt comfortable doing it than thats going to show, and if they dont want to teach it, why bother in the first place. I get your spouses chosen career path has evaporated but jumping into teaching because of a lack of options isnt going to make for a successful or enduring second career. Yes, this job gets easier with experience as you develop efficiencies and you have firm lessons, but its dealing with adolescents and their drama all day, every day 180 days out of the year. If your spouse cant get to that point here more of the tasking his brain can do on autopilot, and they are waking up everyday thinking how can I get out of actually not having to teach today before that happens, its not going to be a sustainable career and they will be back to this point again sooner rather than later.

What else should you be keeping in mind? Not teaching. Seriously he cant create a blog and monetize that? If teaching is something to get past this point, look into French language instruction, theres bound to be a language learning center nearby thats looking to add french as a language they can provide, or even putting out a shingle and doing french lessons on his own.
chiliverde
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by chiliverde »

Psy, thanks for adding your detailed and considered opinion. It confirms a lot of things I've been feeling in my gut. There really are not a lot of good options at this point, and teaching is only a survivable profession if there is a solid passion and devotion there. We've all found ourselves in schools/years where we would have given up if not for this driving force.

The decision is completely his to make. I will continue to reinforce that if this does work, he will need to spend a lot of time, maybe all his time, in language schools or very low tier ISs, and all the day to day misery that this can entail. Observing at my school paints a very different picture indeed of what it can be like and again, I'm here after 15 solid years.

Would welcome any other opinions.
expatscot
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by expatscot »

I wonder if the real stumbling block might be his level of English? Maybe he should look at getting this to a level where he would be able to read & mark IB EEs or IAs (which he would need to do in any IB school, regardless of level.) Perhaps a year doing this and then look at teaching.

There is a French school in Bangkok - it might be worth getting in touch with them to visit and see some teaching there. He might feel more comfortable once he's done that.


But ultimately, as psyguy says, teaching really isn't something you go into if you're not sure about it. It took me 14 years wondering "what if?" before I finally did - and even then, that was after spending some time in and around schools in different capacities.
chiliverde
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by chiliverde »

Right, so he's been considering this for a few years, and is currently doing observations in several schools. I'm trying to play the role of almost discouraging him, basically making sure he knows that it will be hard for many years, he'll need to network and make his career happen on his own, he may be working in bottom of the barrel schools, and he will need to have a driving force that makes it worth it for him in the bad days/months/years.

In terms of getting the more technical academic English he needs, I'm not sure if there is a way for him to do this outside of just experiencing it for himself in his first school. But it is true that at the moment, French seems like the more viable option.
shadowjack
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by shadowjack »

Chili,

there are many ISs where your husband, with a certification is marketable. An MBA in Business would go a long way in the Business Studies and Economics areas of the IB. It won't necessarily be years - you are, after all, planning to market yourselves as a teaching COUPLE, right? If not, you should. You will be the opener of doors - if you have solid qualifications then doors will open for your husband. When Mrs. Shadowjack started, I was the door opener. Now we are co-equal in different areas of the curriculum. Don't be so quick to discount that and to think that it necessarily entails banishment to the dregs of the teaching world. :-)
chiliverde
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by chiliverde »

Thanks for weighing in, SJ. Absolutely, the plan would be to market ourselves as a teaching couple. My profile is strong, even though my field is pretty saturated, and I generated a lot of interest last search, even though my search was quite small and I had two dependents. So we'll see. We're just cognizant that aiming in the near future for top tier as a couple might not be possible, and it might be better to have me continue at upper schools and him and a lower, rather than both of us settle for lower, if that makes sense.
chiliverde
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by chiliverde »

What about this idea for this year:

classroom teaching of some kind, however he can swing it + MA provisional credential + an IB training course? And obviously constantly trying to level up from there. The good thing about BKK is there are so many IB schools here.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@chiliverde

The issue with observations is that they can be grossly skewed. Who are they observing a noob IT whose stumbling over everything, or a veteran IT who makes it look easy because after a decade it really is easier?

I dont see what the benefit compared to the cost of an IB workshop. IB leadership know that weekend or online workshops dont make an IT competent to do anything, it make them legal in terms of their authorization, that is all. Are there ISs that will give some value to it, saving them some coin, absolutely. What really needs to happen is have your spouse shop their resume around and see who is interested and what opportunities it generates, an IB workshop isnt going to turn it around if the end of the day your spouse has nothing or the only interest they get they wouldnt accept an appointment from.

@SJ

I dont disagree but regardless of academic background if the IT isnt comfortable with the material, they arent going to be comfortable doing it even in the field of humanities/social studies where economics (and to a lesser extent business is in demand), especially if the IT has to spend two years just figuring out how to make a lesson work for one year and managing a classroom the second year.
chiliverde
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by chiliverde »

So my husband has decided to go for it, and is about halfway through Teach Now. We are unexpectedly on the job hunt for next year and are open to a a wide swath of countries, given our unusual situation and that it's so late. We have two kids though, so it needs to be fairly safe and family friendly.

Are there any countries with visa restrictions for NQTs? As in, countries where a school would not be able to hire him even if they wanted to, because he has so little teaching experience? We worry about me accepting a job and him a student teaching placement, but then being unable to find work after due to restrictions.
shadowjack
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by shadowjack »

Hi CV!

If you don't really find anything for the 2020-2021 year, I might have a lead for 2021 - 2022.

What is he looking at for his teaching areas? Is French one of them, given his native fluency? French A, for schools that offer it as an option instead of French B, is logical if you look at it that way.

Are you making a change too, to upper levels?

Good luck!

Shad
chiliverde
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Re: possible futures for an unusual teaching couple

Post by chiliverde »

Shad,

Thank you so much - we'd be grateful to hear of any opportunities! I have some interviews lined up this week that I'm really excited about, but we'll see. If there is a PM on this thing (I've never figured out how that works) are you able to contact me that way?

And yes to French, good point on the A vs B. He has a decade long career in journalism and video filming/editing, so lots of potential skills he can bring to clubs or one-off classes. His English is excellent.

I've taught all across the EY and Elementary board - next year it seems like there are lots of jobs going in Asia in EY (no surprise there), so I might be making a turn back to that. Would love to get more experience in upper levels eventually though.
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