Planning ahead. How can I become an IT in Germany?

PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@majorreaction

You could do your field experience in DODEA, you dont get to pick your location though and you have to entirely fund the costs yourself. It can result in references and experience that would have utility to getting into DODEA as a FTE DT/IT, it assumes however that your leadership is willing to expend the resources to do so and keep you, or help you with their relationships and connection to leverage you into another campus/complex. There is however no real priority or preference having done your field work in DODEA. If at the end of the year you just get good luck and a hand shake thats all you get.

We havent had a functional transfer program in years and likely the previous program will never come back. If some semblance of a transfer program does return, transfers within priority categories are based on SCD (System Computation Date) and there would be a LOT of DTs/ITS ahead of you, and Germany as part of the EUR was/is a popular transfer destination. You cant go into DOEA thinking whatever appointment you get youre going to be able to transfer to where you really want to go anymore.

It is very rare that DTs leave DODEA for IE, it happens, and DODEA experience would be the same as any other edu experience, however DODEA isnt the most developed or SOTA when it comes to edu meds/ped/asst, and your resume would likely have some holes in it that would need balancing.
Youre probably looking at 6 years in IE building your resume as a literature IT before your going to be a serious candidate for a first tier German IS.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Planning ahead. How can I become an IT in Germany?

Post by Thames Pirate »

shadylane wrote:
> Thames Pirate wrote:
>
> You will want to move away
> > from big agencies for this; look instead for smaller schools, often
> > boarding schools--schools like Louisenlund or Schloss Salem.
>
> Are you sure about Salem ? I'd heard that it was extremely competitive. Maybe next
> the OP should apply to Eton College in the UK or Exeter Academy in the US if they
> fancy a jaunt in one of those countries ?

Salem is nowhere near the reputation of Eton/Exeter, though it is certainly more known than Lund or some of the myriad other small or boarding schools. I don't know whether or not they hire newly qualified teachers; they might not. But it is one of a great many schools that are off the beaten track of "International School [CityName]" and it was one of the first small schools that came to mind. But it certainly isn't the Eton of Germany.
PsyGuy
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Inquiry

Post by PsyGuy »

@ Thames Pirate

What would be the Eton or Exeter of Germany?
Thames Pirate
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Re: Inquiry

Post by Thames Pirate »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @ Thames Pirate
>
> What would be the Eton or Exeter of Germany?

You are assuming there is one. I wouldn't say there is.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Planning ahead. How can I become an IT in Germany?

Post by Thames Pirate »

OP--If you are figuring on several years before getting to a school like MIS anyway, you may as well do them at either a smaller school in Germany or another IS where you can get curriculum experience, etc. There is nothing wrong with the DODEA option, but you would essentially be teaching in an American school that just happens to be in Germany and probably not IB, either. MIS would probably prefer curriculum experience and experience with an international student body to DODEA. So it really depends on what your ultimate goal is--just living in Germany? Teaching at MIS? Different goals have different routes.

If your goal is just living in Germany, the country is currently experience a teacher shortage. If you can get your language skills up to speed, you could absolutely do a Ref and become a teacher in a German school. Otherwise, just look at the myriad schools that teach in English. Even domestic schools with English as the language of instruction might be a good option. Or consider the DODEA.

But if your goal is MIS or FIS, you will likely be better off going to other ISs for a few years and just applying for every possible vacancy while you gather experience until you get the job you want.
shadylane
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Re: Inquiry

Post by shadylane »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @ Thames Pirate
>
> What would be the Eton or Exeter of Germany?

Salem was founded by Kurt Hahn, who also founded Gordenstoun - the school that most of the British Royal family attended.

It's Germany's most famous boarding school. It is what I believe you might call, an 'elite' school.

Some of their alumni are:

Cleo von Adelsheim (b. 1987), actress and hereditary princess of Oettingen-Spielberg
Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh (b. 1921) (He later attended the British Salem School at Gordonstoun, as did his sons)
Queen Sofía of Spain
Princess Irene of Greece and Denmark — daughter of king Paul I of Greece and princess Frederica of Hanover
Begum Inaara Aga Khan (as Gabriele Thyssen)
Berthold Maria Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg (b. 1934), major general and eldest son of count Claus von Stauffenberg
Alice Ricciardi-von Platen (1910–2008), - and author of the world's first documentary about the mass killings of disabled and mentally ill persons by the Nazi regime
Golo Mann (1909–1994), writer and son of Thomas Mann
Monika Mann (1910–1992), writer and daughter of Thomas Mann
George Mosse (1918–1999), historian and grandson of Rudolf Mosse
Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann (1916–2010), German political scientist (though she earned her Abitur in Göttingen)
Ferdinand, Prince of Bismarck (born 1930), head of the princely house of Bismarck
Thames Pirate
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Re: Inquiry

Post by Thames Pirate »

shadylane wrote:

> It's Germany's most famous boarding school. It is what I believe you might call, an
> 'elite' school.

Perhaps, but Lund, Torgelow, Solling, Birklehof--they are generally all lumped in that category. Plenty of people--rich locals included--that have heard of one but not another of those. I don't know that there is a single school that tops the charts.
shadylane
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Re: Inquiry

Post by shadylane »

Thames Pirate wrote:
> Perhaps, but Lund, Torgelow, Solling, Birklehof--they are generally all lumped in
> that category. Plenty of people--rich locals included--that have heard of one but
> not another of those. I don't know that there is a single school that tops the
> charts.

Their fees are all lower than Salem's. Some of them by about €12k per year. Salem has an international reputation amongst the world's elite that the others don't either.
GrumblesMcGee
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Re: Planning ahead. How can I become an IT in Germany?

Post by GrumblesMcGee »

*Yawn*

The whole "2 years experience" is a popular talking point for many recruiters and (by extension) agencies, and therefore it's filtered down into generic advice for teachers interested in IE.

It's not that it's a bad guideline. But it's so riddled with caveats (even the stubborn PG alludes to "limiting conditions") and exceptions as to render it a very, very weak guideline. Even the hypotheticals raised as alternatives to two years in DE are often overly rigid (e.g., starting at a "T3 in China").

There's nothing approaching consensus here, and anyone who suggests otherwise is being disingenuous.

That said, for a college junior (presumably without other job experience, i.e. not a non-traditional student) without much teaching experience or international experience, you have to be realistic. What's in your best interest in terms of development and mentoring? Are you ready to not only start a new career (and your working life) while also jumping head-first into a new culture? How are you going to handle issues relating to authority, power-distance, etc. (with colleagues, local admins, students, parents) if you're also just forming your identity as a teacher?

Recruiters are always going to be wary of how candidates will handle change. The more elements that are changing, the more concerns that will raise. Are you going to finish your contract or decide you want to go home? Are you going to adapt to the curriculum, to the students, to the culture?

I could sense in a lot of recruiters that I wasn't worth the risk, and I have great qualifications and a long history of overseas travel. They just felt better going with more of a known quantity.

On the other side, ask yourself about the schools that (likely) *would* offer you a job. What do they see in you? If the answer is that you're the best (on paper) that they could get, that's a cause for concern. You have to be willing to say no, even at the risk of abandoning Plan A (teaching internationally). I had my share of those interactions with schools and agencies.

Beyond the "every job search is different" cliche is the fact that every candidate has different wants/needs/limits. If you *really* want to teach internationally, you can jump in (see earlier comments about what/where you'll likely be). If you really want to aim, long-term, for a specific kind of job or location, your path will likely be different.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Inquiry

Post by Thames Pirate »

shadylane wrote:
> Thames Pirate wrote:
>
> Their fees are all lower than Salem's. Some of them by about €12k per year. Salem has
> an international reputation amongst the world's elite that the others don't either.

Not among locals. There have even been some pretty awful negative reports. It has an outsider's elite status that falls flat within the host country.
shadylane
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Location: SE Asia

Re: Inquiry

Post by shadylane »

Thames Pirate wrote:
> Not among locals. There have even been some pretty awful negative reports. It has
> an outsider's elite status that falls flat within the host country.

I guess it depends who you talk to. Europeans, and Germans especially, really don't like those with money. For someone to send their child to an expensive private school instead of the local Gymnasium attracts a lot of criticism, both of the family and the school. It's not for nothing that wealthy Germans tend to hide their wealth.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Planning ahead. How can I become an IT in Germany?

Post by Thames Pirate »

Pretty much!
majorreaction
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Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:46 am

Re: Planning ahead. How can I become an IT in Germany?

Post by majorreaction »

Thames Pirate wrote:
> OP--If you are figuring on several years before getting to a school like
> MIS anyway, you may as well do them at either a smaller school in Germany
> or another IS where you can get curriculum experience, etc. There is
> nothing wrong with the DODEA option, but you would essentially be teaching
> in an American school that just happens to be in Germany and probably not
> IB, either. MIS would probably prefer curriculum experience and experience
> with an international student body to DODEA. So it really depends on what
> your ultimate goal is--just living in Germany? Teaching at MIS? Different
> goals have different routes.
>
> If your goal is just living in Germany, the country is currently experience
> a teacher shortage. If you can get your language skills up to speed, you
> could absolutely do a Ref and become a teacher in a German school.
> Otherwise, just look at the myriad schools that teach in English. Even
> domestic schools with English as the language of instruction might be a
> good option. Or consider the DODEA.
>
> But if your goal is MIS or FIS, you will likely be better off going to
> other ISs for a few years and just applying for every possible vacancy
> while you gather experience until you get the job you want.

Thank you for the great advice. I think you are probably right. I guess the only daunting part about going with the smaller school in Germany route is not only learning a second language but being comfortable enough to teach in that language as well. Between school studies and a job im not sure if I could commit the time needed.

I know for certain that I don't want to do my two years here in the states. I want to go abroad. My ultimate goal would be to end up in MIS. I suppose going to a different IS at first could be another option. I would probably be limiting myself to tier 3 schools in Asia/Latin America/ME for the first 2 years though, right? I wouldn't be totally opposed to that if only for two years. I could use that experience to move into maybe a tier 2 IS in Northern Europe (If not Germany if I got lucky) or a better school in Asia.

Idk, I've definitely got some things to consider.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Planning ahead. How can I become an IT in Germany?

Post by Thames Pirate »

There are a lot of smaller or larger but less known international schools--some good, others less so--in Germany. Phorms (in several cities), accadis in Bad Homburg, IS Braunschweig, SIS (in several cities), tons in Berlin, QIS Muenster, and so on.

Many of these are quite international, great places to work, etc. They aren't big or known enough to be tier 1 or to get lots of applications, but don't discount them.
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames Pirate

If you were locked in a room and you couldnt leave until you named an IS/DS in Germany that was as close to an Eaton or Exeter which IS/DS might that be??

@majorreaction

A tier 3 IS in Asia/ME/LCSA is a far more realistic option for gaining experience assuming you dont have something like German language ability to leverage into a DS in Germany. Even after those first two years your still not going to be marketable for a tier 2 or tier 1 IS in Germany. Your going to be working the circuit for about 6 years before thats something where youre a viable candidate.
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