I've seen those things, too. I have seen folks hide out to avoid negativity--but the passionate ones will find like-minded individuals and seek out ways to collaborate in whatever limited capacity they can. I have been that person at some schools.
I have also seen the ASP for cash types, and it is a shame. But at least they are not dumping the work on a select few who do not only ASPs but student council, field trips, etc. It's those who do nothing outside of teaching their classes, never show up for school events, etc. who really drive me crazy because the rest of us pick up the slack. The extras for cash without passion are not ideal, but they aren't the worst colleagues.
Traits of Best Colleagues
Re: Traits of Best Colleagues
I don't understand how anyone could just focus on teaching. Isn't it mandatory to offer at least one activity? That's how it works at most schools and it's part of our employment contract. I do MUN and also coach a sport. The earliest I go home on any given day is 5:30 pm, if am lucky.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Traits of Best Colleagues
Totally depends on the school. I worked in a public school where being part of at least one committee/team/initiative was required, and I have worked at ISs where nothing but teaching was required. I have also worked at a school where it was not required, but everyone just pulled their weight. It's those who don't do more than the minimum, whatever that is, who are not great colleagues.
Discussion
I tend to agree with @finedude,there are a majority of ISs that if you dont belong to 'THE' click or one of the clicks, you will end up being the subject of that clicks conversation and focus, and without a ready available outlet for socialization outside the IS, that environment becomes deeper and more pervasive.
There are ISs that dont have ASP programs at all, and other ISs where offering an ASP is optional (the IS may only have athletic competitions and MUN for example, and that program is part of the ITs contract) or ASP programs are voluntary but come with extra compensation.
There are ISs that dont have ASP programs at all, and other ISs where offering an ASP is optional (the IS may only have athletic competitions and MUN for example, and that program is part of the ITs contract) or ASP programs are voluntary but come with extra compensation.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Discussion
PsyGuy wrote:
> I tend to agree with @finedude,there are a majority of ISs that if you dont
> belong to 'THE' click or one of the clicks, you will end up being the
> subject of that clicks conversation and focus, and without a ready
> available outlet for socialization outside the IS, that environment becomes
> deeper and more pervasive.
>
> There are ISs that dont have ASP programs at all, and other ISs where
> offering an ASP is optional (the IS may only have athletic competitions and
> MUN for example, and that program is part of the ITs contract) or ASP
> programs are voluntary but come with extra compensation.
The majority? Do you have research to back that up, or is it just your personal experience at some ISs?
It's not consistent with my experiences at ISs at all. The are always social groups at schools (or anywhere) based on shared interests (bar hoppers, families with kids, outdoor-enthusiasts, etc.), but at none of the schools I worked at were these groups so tightly-knit that they wouldn't readily allow others to join them, so I wouldn't call them cliques. There's also usually a lot of overlap between groups (a bar hopper that also likes to run marathons), and social events where everyone would be invited.
> I tend to agree with @finedude,there are a majority of ISs that if you dont
> belong to 'THE' click or one of the clicks, you will end up being the
> subject of that clicks conversation and focus, and without a ready
> available outlet for socialization outside the IS, that environment becomes
> deeper and more pervasive.
>
> There are ISs that dont have ASP programs at all, and other ISs where
> offering an ASP is optional (the IS may only have athletic competitions and
> MUN for example, and that program is part of the ITs contract) or ASP
> programs are voluntary but come with extra compensation.
The majority? Do you have research to back that up, or is it just your personal experience at some ISs?
It's not consistent with my experiences at ISs at all. The are always social groups at schools (or anywhere) based on shared interests (bar hoppers, families with kids, outdoor-enthusiasts, etc.), but at none of the schools I worked at were these groups so tightly-knit that they wouldn't readily allow others to join them, so I wouldn't call them cliques. There's also usually a lot of overlap between groups (a bar hopper that also likes to run marathons), and social events where everyone would be invited.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources.
> We disagree.
Ah, no sources again.
We indeed disagree then.
> I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources.
> We disagree.
Ah, no sources again.
We indeed disagree then.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> You inquired "Do you have research to back that up, or is it just your
> personal experience at some ISs" I replied "I only post from
> experience, research and trusted and reliable sources."
That's meaningless. You always say it when you are unable to produce sources to actual data, or are unwilling to say it's nothing more than your own personal experience.
It would be different if you'd said "I only post from experience." But then you wouldn't be able to claim that "there are a majority of ISs" where "if you dont belong... etc.".
> @Heliotrope
>
> You inquired "Do you have research to back that up, or is it just your
> personal experience at some ISs" I replied "I only post from
> experience, research and trusted and reliable sources."
That's meaningless. You always say it when you are unable to produce sources to actual data, or are unwilling to say it's nothing more than your own personal experience.
It would be different if you'd said "I only post from experience." But then you wouldn't be able to claim that "there are a majority of ISs" where "if you dont belong... etc.".
Reply
@Heliotrope
Meaningless too @Heliotrope does not in fact indicate an absence of meaning, or that meaningfulness can and does exist outside of @Heliotrope.
I state "I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources. " because I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources.
Meaningless too @Heliotrope does not in fact indicate an absence of meaning, or that meaningfulness can and does exist outside of @Heliotrope.
I state "I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources. " because I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> Meaningless too @Heliotrope does not in fact indicate an absence of
> meaning, or that meaningfulness can and does exist outside of @Heliotrope.
> I state "I only post from experience, research and trusted and
> reliable sources. " because I only post from experience, research and
> trusted and reliable sources.
You keep posting "I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources" when you're asked to show where you found the data that backs up your claims.
You never post any links to actual sources, you just copy-paste your "I only post ...", so maybe it's not without meaning, but more that its meaning has changed for those who have read enough posts on this forum and are familiar with your non-data approach to discussions. What it has changed to I will leave to your imagination.
> Meaningless too @Heliotrope does not in fact indicate an absence of
> meaning, or that meaningfulness can and does exist outside of @Heliotrope.
> I state "I only post from experience, research and trusted and
> reliable sources. " because I only post from experience, research and
> trusted and reliable sources.
You keep posting "I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources" when you're asked to show where you found the data that backs up your claims.
You never post any links to actual sources, you just copy-paste your "I only post ...", so maybe it's not without meaning, but more that its meaning has changed for those who have read enough posts on this forum and are familiar with your non-data approach to discussions. What it has changed to I will leave to your imagination.
Reply
@Heliotrope
I dont owe you anything, Im not obligated or mandated to comply with your requests.
Not all data is digitally retrievable and associated with "links" as you describe. Original works of literature for example.
Only data matters and I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources.
I dont owe you anything, Im not obligated or mandated to comply with your requests.
Not all data is digitally retrievable and associated with "links" as you describe. Original works of literature for example.
Only data matters and I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> I dont owe you anything, Im not obligated or mandated to comply with your
> requests.
Nope, but it doesn't help your case if you always refuse to tell us where you get your information from.
> Not all data is digitally retrievable and associated with "links"
> as you describe. Original works of literature for example.
Then you can just mention the book and the page number. Easy peasy. Lemon squeezy.
> I only post from experience, research and trusted and
> reliable sources.
Well, that's not the prevailing opinion, since you're so unwilling to show your work. And we're teachers, so we tend to want to see it.
> I dont owe you anything, Im not obligated or mandated to comply with your
> requests.
Nope, but it doesn't help your case if you always refuse to tell us where you get your information from.
> Not all data is digitally retrievable and associated with "links"
> as you describe. Original works of literature for example.
Then you can just mention the book and the page number. Easy peasy. Lemon squeezy.
> I only post from experience, research and trusted and
> reliable sources.
Well, that's not the prevailing opinion, since you're so unwilling to show your work. And we're teachers, so we tend to want to see it.
Reply
@Heliotrope
Im unaware of any such case Im attempting to persuade @Heliotrope of.
Not all non-digital data exists in the form of a book. Nor am I aware of any obligation or mandate to share reference or citations with @Heliotrope.
Im not subject to conforming data to the prevailing opinion of @Heliotrope nor to satisfy @Heliotropes wants.
Im unaware of any such case Im attempting to persuade @Heliotrope of.
Not all non-digital data exists in the form of a book. Nor am I aware of any obligation or mandate to share reference or citations with @Heliotrope.
Im not subject to conforming data to the prevailing opinion of @Heliotrope nor to satisfy @Heliotropes wants.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> Not all non-digital data exists in the form of a book.
You can mention the source, even if it's not a book.
If you ever went to university, this should be very basic stuff for you.
PsyGuy wrote:
> Nor am I aware of any obligation or mandate to share reference or citations with @Heliotrope.
> Im not subject to conforming data to the prevailing opinion of @Heliotrope
> nor to satisfy @Heliotropes wants.
I'm not saying that you have to. All I'm saying is that someone who makes claims but can't back them up with sources will not be taken very seriously, so by always copy-pasting "I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources" without a willingness to share those sources, you're invalidating any point you're trying to make, and not just to me.
> Not all non-digital data exists in the form of a book.
You can mention the source, even if it's not a book.
If you ever went to university, this should be very basic stuff for you.
PsyGuy wrote:
> Nor am I aware of any obligation or mandate to share reference or citations with @Heliotrope.
> Im not subject to conforming data to the prevailing opinion of @Heliotrope
> nor to satisfy @Heliotropes wants.
I'm not saying that you have to. All I'm saying is that someone who makes claims but can't back them up with sources will not be taken very seriously, so by always copy-pasting "I only post from experience, research and trusted and reliable sources" without a willingness to share those sources, you're invalidating any point you're trying to make, and not just to me.