@Heliotrope
ITs also like to stay at good ISs that treat them well, recognize their value, and compensate it accordingly. When that no longer is happening or dosnt happen and the IT wants to depart for better opportunities after to years if that be the case there is no secret or hidden requirement that you have to stay longer than to years as long as again 1) Complete your contract, 2) Have a positive reference and 3) Have an explanation for the movement.
Thats utterly untrue, your own example proves it, the IT in position #2 who had a 10 year position stayed only 2 at the next IS. Whereas the IT in position #1 may very likely be ready to settle down and put in that long term commitment.
Are there any ex-teachers on this board?
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Heliotrope
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Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> ITs also like to stay at good ISs that treat them well, recognize their
> value, and compensate it accordingly. When that no longer is happening or
> dosnt happen and the IT wants to depart for better opportunities after to
> years if that be the case there is no secret or hidden requirement that you
> have to stay longer than to years as long as again 1) Complete your
> contract, 2) Have a positive reference and 3) Have an explanation for the
> movement.
Sure, you can leave after two years, that's your right, and when it's not a good fit, you should.
But if you have left ALL your schools (or at least the last 5 ones in a row) after two years, that tells ISs looking at your CV that you're likely to do it again at your next one.
> Thats utterly untrue, your own example proves it, the IT in position #2 who
> had a 10 year position stayed only 2 at the next IS. Whereas the IT in
> position #1 may very likely be ready to settle down and put in that long
> term commitment.
Not 'utterly untrue'.
I guess at that particular IS, the school didn't treat him/her well, or didn't recognize his/her value, and didn't compensate it accordingly. It can happen occasionally. One or two 2 year stints needn't worry recruiters, as long as the IT has showed he/she is capable of committing past the first contract. The 5-10-2-4 years IT had three longer commitments at a previous schools, and only one 2 year stay. The IT in position #1 may indeed very likely be ready to settle down, but his/her track record will make recruiters think that he/she will just do another two years and move on, as has happened five times before.
Anyone in recruiting can tell you that good (or most) ISs will prefer IT #2, as he/she is more likely to stick around.
> @Heliotrope
>
> ITs also like to stay at good ISs that treat them well, recognize their
> value, and compensate it accordingly. When that no longer is happening or
> dosnt happen and the IT wants to depart for better opportunities after to
> years if that be the case there is no secret or hidden requirement that you
> have to stay longer than to years as long as again 1) Complete your
> contract, 2) Have a positive reference and 3) Have an explanation for the
> movement.
Sure, you can leave after two years, that's your right, and when it's not a good fit, you should.
But if you have left ALL your schools (or at least the last 5 ones in a row) after two years, that tells ISs looking at your CV that you're likely to do it again at your next one.
> Thats utterly untrue, your own example proves it, the IT in position #2 who
> had a 10 year position stayed only 2 at the next IS. Whereas the IT in
> position #1 may very likely be ready to settle down and put in that long
> term commitment.
Not 'utterly untrue'.
I guess at that particular IS, the school didn't treat him/her well, or didn't recognize his/her value, and didn't compensate it accordingly. It can happen occasionally. One or two 2 year stints needn't worry recruiters, as long as the IT has showed he/she is capable of committing past the first contract. The 5-10-2-4 years IT had three longer commitments at a previous schools, and only one 2 year stay. The IT in position #1 may indeed very likely be ready to settle down, but his/her track record will make recruiters think that he/she will just do another two years and move on, as has happened five times before.
Anyone in recruiting can tell you that good (or most) ISs will prefer IT #2, as he/she is more likely to stick around.
Reply
@Heliotrope
No it doesnt, it says nothing. The IT in position 1 is the better choice all other factors being equal.
ITs also like to stay at good ISs that treat them well, recognize their value, and compensate it accordingly. When that no longer is happening or dosnt happen and the IT wants to depart for better opportunities after to years if that be the case there is no secret or hidden requirement that you have to stay longer than to years as long as again 1) Complete your contract, 2) Have a positive reference and 3) Have an explanation for the movement.
No it doesnt, it says nothing. The IT in position 1 is the better choice all other factors being equal.
ITs also like to stay at good ISs that treat them well, recognize their value, and compensate it accordingly. When that no longer is happening or dosnt happen and the IT wants to depart for better opportunities after to years if that be the case there is no secret or hidden requirement that you have to stay longer than to years as long as again 1) Complete your contract, 2) Have a positive reference and 3) Have an explanation for the movement.
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Heliotrope
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Re: Reply
Do you think an IS wouldn't expect a candidate with FIVE 2 year contracts in a row to just do another 'two and go'?
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> I think they may conclude that this IT is ready to settle down for the right IS,
> and that leadership would think theyre the right IS.
========
It is possible. People often believe that a serial cheater would never cheat on him/her and are ready to settle down because they have finally met someone worth giving all of that up for. Of course they are also usually wrong.
> @Heliotrope
>
> I think they may conclude that this IT is ready to settle down for the right IS,
> and that leadership would think theyre the right IS.
========
It is possible. People often believe that a serial cheater would never cheat on him/her and are ready to settle down because they have finally met someone worth giving all of that up for. Of course they are also usually wrong.
Reply
@WT123
I dont disagree, an IT might spend a decade at one IS to leave and spend only 2 at the next IS, and IT might spend 10 years with 5 2 year stays and then stay a decade at the 6th. What absolutely isnt true is that an IT with a 2 yer contract has to stay some third or longer year or they wont be taken seriously, or it will damage their marketability, again as long as the IT 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and 3) Has an explanation for the movement, they are fine.
I dont disagree, an IT might spend a decade at one IS to leave and spend only 2 at the next IS, and IT might spend 10 years with 5 2 year stays and then stay a decade at the 6th. What absolutely isnt true is that an IT with a 2 yer contract has to stay some third or longer year or they wont be taken seriously, or it will damage their marketability, again as long as the IT 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and 3) Has an explanation for the movement, they are fine.
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Heliotrope
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- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> What absolutely isnt true is that an IT with a 2 yer contract has to stay some
> third or longer year or they wont be taken seriously, or it will damage their marketability
No, not if it happens once or twice, (or even three times, especially if it's at the start of your career), but FIVE 2 year-stays in a row will definitely hurt your chances, as almost all schools will expect another 2 year stay if they hire you.
And with five 2 year stays, I don't think you would be very believable if you blamed all of those departures on the IS not valuing you, or 'lack of fit'.
> What absolutely isnt true is that an IT with a 2 yer contract has to stay some
> third or longer year or they wont be taken seriously, or it will damage their marketability
No, not if it happens once or twice, (or even three times, especially if it's at the start of your career), but FIVE 2 year-stays in a row will definitely hurt your chances, as almost all schools will expect another 2 year stay if they hire you.
And with five 2 year stays, I don't think you would be very believable if you blamed all of those departures on the IS not valuing you, or 'lack of fit'.
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secondplace
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm
Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?
So, to refer back to the 5-10-2-4 year teacher...
...well, guess what I got loads of questions about at interview for the (and counting...) 4? That's right, the previous 2 year job.
Which I have no problem with as I was only a few months, 4 maybe, into that second year before I was applying for and interviewing for jobs. It was logical that schools would ask about that.
Schools look at this. Schools take this seriously. I agree that teachers, and schools, are free to honour contracts. And they should. But these factors are taken into consideration when schools hiring. It would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
...well, guess what I got loads of questions about at interview for the (and counting...) 4? That's right, the previous 2 year job.
Which I have no problem with as I was only a few months, 4 maybe, into that second year before I was applying for and interviewing for jobs. It was logical that schools would ask about that.
Schools look at this. Schools take this seriously. I agree that teachers, and schools, are free to honour contracts. And they should. But these factors are taken into consideration when schools hiring. It would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
Reply
@secondplace
Sure but having a recruiter or leader ask about is exactly why, again, as long as the IT 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and 3) Has an explanation for the movement, they are fine. You had an explanation that was satisfactory.
Sure but having a recruiter or leader ask about is exactly why, again, as long as the IT 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and 3) Has an explanation for the movement, they are fine. You had an explanation that was satisfactory.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @secondplace
>
> Sure but having a recruiter or leader ask about is exactly why, again, as
> long as the IT 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and
> 3) Has an explanation for the movement, they are fine. You had an
> explanation that was satisfactory.
You can plausibly explain three 2 year contracts perhaps, saying it wasn't a good fit or whatever, but if you try to explain five the school will likely think you're just coming up with excuses to hide the fact that you're a tourist teacher.
Nothing wrong with a tourist teacher btw, but higher tier schools generally won't be interested in hiring those, as they prefer teachers who can stick around, and with five 2 year contracts behind you they will not think that that's going to be you.
> @secondplace
>
> Sure but having a recruiter or leader ask about is exactly why, again, as
> long as the IT 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and
> 3) Has an explanation for the movement, they are fine. You had an
> explanation that was satisfactory.
You can plausibly explain three 2 year contracts perhaps, saying it wasn't a good fit or whatever, but if you try to explain five the school will likely think you're just coming up with excuses to hide the fact that you're a tourist teacher.
Nothing wrong with a tourist teacher btw, but higher tier schools generally won't be interested in hiring those, as they prefer teachers who can stick around, and with five 2 year contracts behind you they will not think that that's going to be you.
Reply
@Heliotrope
You can by the previous example of 2,2,2,2,2,2 explain 4 even 5, since thats what happened. This would make you a traveler IT, and again, as long as the IT 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and 3) Has an explanation for the movement, they are fine. Even at upper tier ISs.
You can by the previous example of 2,2,2,2,2,2 explain 4 even 5, since thats what happened. This would make you a traveler IT, and again, as long as the IT 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and 3) Has an explanation for the movement, they are fine. Even at upper tier ISs.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
Yes, you can explain all of them, but it becomes less credible. It's the pattern that raises concerns.
And anyway, anyone hiring that sees a resume with five 2 year stints in a row will assume the candidate will very likely only stay 2 years at their school as well, if hired. And for most upper tier schools that's a turn-off.
And anyway, anyone hiring that sees a resume with five 2 year stints in a row will assume the candidate will very likely only stay 2 years at their school as well, if hired. And for most upper tier schools that's a turn-off.
Reply
@Heliotrope
Youre confusing predictability and pattern and thinking they are synonymous with one another, for these are independent events. Your suffering from the same fallacy that flipping a coin 10 times and getting heads 10 times means you can make any type of prediction about what the 11th coin flip will be, and it doesnt. Just as the 10 year appointment had no way of predicting the next appointment would be only 2 years in the previous example. Maybe the IT with a series of 2 year appointments is ready to settle down, and maybe the IT with the 10 year appointment is still hurting and needs to move around.
No it doesnt become less credible without knowing what the explanation is. I was following my spouse around on their career track in different regions because her employer had us moving around every two years for a decade has a different credibility than two years is about how long it takes me to get tired of that particular beach.
No its not, not if the upper tier IS thinks theyre the whole cupcake and the hello kitty sprinkles, and they see the IT as having experience and perseverance and the personality to survive and thrive with 5 different HOSs and how many countless staff in 5 different environments. As opposed to someone who stayed 10 years because they didnt want the challenge, got comfortable and complacent, and their only leaving because they got divorced and the ex-spouse is now seeing the senior leadership they report too.
Youre confusing predictability and pattern and thinking they are synonymous with one another, for these are independent events. Your suffering from the same fallacy that flipping a coin 10 times and getting heads 10 times means you can make any type of prediction about what the 11th coin flip will be, and it doesnt. Just as the 10 year appointment had no way of predicting the next appointment would be only 2 years in the previous example. Maybe the IT with a series of 2 year appointments is ready to settle down, and maybe the IT with the 10 year appointment is still hurting and needs to move around.
No it doesnt become less credible without knowing what the explanation is. I was following my spouse around on their career track in different regions because her employer had us moving around every two years for a decade has a different credibility than two years is about how long it takes me to get tired of that particular beach.
No its not, not if the upper tier IS thinks theyre the whole cupcake and the hello kitty sprinkles, and they see the IT as having experience and perseverance and the personality to survive and thrive with 5 different HOSs and how many countless staff in 5 different environments. As opposed to someone who stayed 10 years because they didnt want the challenge, got comfortable and complacent, and their only leaving because they got divorced and the ex-spouse is now seeing the senior leadership they report too.
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secondplace
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm
Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?
"As opposed to someone who stayed 10 years because they didnt want the challenge, got comfortable and complacent, and their only leaving because they got divorced and the ex-spouse is now seeing the senior leadership they report too."
You got me, that's exactly how it went...
I agree that having a credible explanation for a sequence of 2 year contracts could work, and a certain mobility in faculty can be a good thing.
But, I also know that in schools I have been at part of what we have considered is longevity and how long someone might stay for. The word 'might' is important there, as clearly there's no imperative on people to stay beyond their contract. But in trying to build sustainability we have always looked for those who it seems likely will stay longer.
You got me, that's exactly how it went...
I agree that having a credible explanation for a sequence of 2 year contracts could work, and a certain mobility in faculty can be a good thing.
But, I also know that in schools I have been at part of what we have considered is longevity and how long someone might stay for. The word 'might' is important there, as clearly there's no imperative on people to stay beyond their contract. But in trying to build sustainability we have always looked for those who it seems likely will stay longer.