Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@secondplace

Fair enough, your trying to predict future outcomes with less than a crystal ball, but your making guesses on whimsy and serendipity, you still have to make the guesses though.
None of that, not a single bit of variance is explained or predicted in this leadership perpetuated myth that you have to do a third year or an extra year or an extra contract beyond what you contracted for or you wont get into upper tier ISs, your IE career will stagnate, or youll be doomed. As long as the IT (again), 1) Completes their contract, 2) Has a positive reference and 3) Has an explanation for the movement. This myth is nothing more than lower tier ISs attempting to reduce their attrition and maturation rate and lower their recruiting costs by peddling this idea you have to stay longer or you wont get the golden ticket to an elite tier IS because talk is cheap compared to actual tangible incentives that would actually motivate an IT to stay. ISs that people want to stay at and extend their contracts have real carrots to offer not ephemeral dream carrots, and leadership warnings of grave consequences ahead.
This isnt about whether a sequence of events can predict future events, its because @SJ started in his second post the the LW "2 and done is the kiss of death internationally" and whether there is some unwritten rule that if you dont stay longer than your contract bad things await you in your career, and its bunk, its a scare tactic to keep ITs chained to work environments they dont want to be in, its fear mongering.
secondplace
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Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by secondplace »

@psyguy

Looking at it from a school sustainability perspective I want teachers who are likely to commit beyond two years so that we can build, and maintain, momentum and, where needed, make effective and long lasting change.

This has nothing to do with fear mongering, but rather a genuine belief that this is better for the school and the students.

Paradoxically, I also don't want people who get stale and aren't open to moving our school forward.

But I don't think genuine and lasting improvements can be achieved through a succession of 'two and done' teachers. From what I've read, and conversations I've had in schools, I know that's not just me.

Will 'two and done' teachers get jobs - of course. Will they get 'good' jobs - yes, but they might be pipped to the post by people with longer stays in their history. Then again, they might not.

Still, none of this will change my preference for teachers who it seems might be likely to commit.

Inevitably, you'll disagree.

x
Heliotrope
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Post by Heliotrope »

Your coin flipping metaphor is wrong. When it comes to human behaviour a pattern can lead to predictions that are more accurate than mere chance. A coin can't decide which way up it lands, but an IT does decide whether or not he commits longer than the minimum two years.
If I see two dogs, and one of them always bites people when petted, and the other one usually doesn't, I'd feel more comfortable petting dog #2.
Of course most recruiters will think the 2-2-2-2-2 IT will be less likely to stay longer than the other IT that has longer stints on his/her CV.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@secondplace

The momentum you speak of may well be momentum of apathy, what your building may not be of any value, your changes may be wrong and bad.
Your belief whether genuine or not is nothing more than your beliefs, they arent valid or true because you believe them to be.

Thats not the fearmongering though, the fear mongering is the selling of this hidden idea that ITs have to do more than their contract or it will kill their career, which isnt true, and the ISs and leadership that do that are attempting to trade in fear mongering and scare tactics because talk is cheap.

Your thinking that it cant be, again, as above in your believes doesnt mean they arent true or its not possible. Your "might be likely to commit" is nothing more than a guess, and your preferences are just that, your preferences.

@Heliotrope

No, its not wrong, your assumption is that the events comprising the behavior are dependent on one another, and youd be right if that assumption were true, but its not their independent events. ITs dont decide that they left their last IS and all the ISs before that after two years and thus thats the cause for them leaving the current IS, they leave for other more pragmatic reasons, thus the events and resulting behavior are independent.
Inanimate objects are not conscious and ITs are, but its people that made the coin, designed it and flipped it, still having sentience and consciousness does not make all events dependent on one another.
Its not a minimum two years its the contracted two years, the contract isnt a starting point to the term of service, it describes the full length of service.
I wouldnt pet either dog, but thats a pathological example, your assumption is that the dog that always bites people always will, its the same error as claiming the dog that always bites people has been biting people so long its time for the dog not to bite the next person. It would also help to know why the dog supposedly always bites people. Your - is pathological your defining one option as undesirable and one as less undesirable, those qualities dont exist in the real scenario of length of commitment in an IE career.

Of course thats just your claim that recruiters will think that, your claims arent self authenticating, nor is your conclusion that 2-2-2-2-2 is less likely to commit to an IS, its just your guess.
secondplace
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Are there any ex-teachers on this board?

Post by secondplace »

@psyguy

"Your belief whether genuine or not is nothing more than your beliefs, they arent valid or true because you believe them to be.
Your "might be likely to commit" is nothing more than a guess, and your preferences are just that, your preferences."

And my beliefs and preferences will continue to inform my actions. Which in this instance would be to hire the person who I felt, on balance, was more likely to commit beyond a two year contract.

x
Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

While past behaviour isn't always a perfect predictor of future behaviour, it does help predict it quite well, especially if that past behaviour shows an obvious pattern (such as five instances in a row). That would change if there were major changes to the IT's personal life: were he/she to have a child, he/she might be more likely to stick around longer the next time around.

But even though this idea that "the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour" is an oversimplification, it's still useful, but more importantly: many people (and recruiters are usually people after all) believe this to be true. So the pattern of five 2 year stints in a row will inform recruiters choices.

By the way, I've never heard of any school 'trade in fear mongering' by telling ITs that leaving after two years will kill their careers. I think ITs tell each other this based on their experiences. I personally see very few tourist teachers at higher tier ISs.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Youre confusing behavior and decision making. This isnt some IT that always yells as a defense mechanism to confrontation. Nor are these 5 decisions to leave after to years because two years have passed, these decisions were very likely made for different reasons.

This is untrue its not many leadership or people.

Leadership that used a negative reference as leverage for ITs to renew contracts.
Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

I'm not confusing anything.

And when people see a pattern, they expect it to repeat. And actually, it often does.

I've never heard of leadership that used a negative reference as leverage for ITs to renew contracts. I'm sure it happens sometimes somewhere, but it would be the exception, not the rule.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

We disagree and yes its an exception.
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