So I have currently worked at this school for 4 years now and this is a renewed contract, I have approached my HR department and have asked them what are the penalties if breaking the contract, please note we have to give 6 months at this school and can't leave until the end of a term, this seemed fair at the start but 6 months is crazy and when looking currently for jobs, most are only giving a term, some are advertising and from the cut of date of the applications to the start date is about 3 months or less. So HR has said if you break your contract and don't give the 6 months notice you need to pay 2 months full salary, airfares coming into the country for you and your family (even though this is renewed contract) they will not owner the first contract, all visas and dependent passes, shipping allowance entering the country and you will forfeit you shipping allowance when you leave. I agree with some but paying back airfares and shipping for a renewed contract is a bit much. I could be wrong here and people will say you had a choice when you signed the contract. This will cost someone around 11,000 pounds just to break the contract.
Would be interested to hear what other teachers/school do if you are thinking about breaking a contract. Please note the first contract was for 2 years and currently this contract finishes in December. Also, the way they will get their money back is by taking it out of your school pension fund so you are s@#$%.
Breaking Contracts
Re: Breaking Contracts
Six months and leaving at the end of a term are pretty normal in international schools. Many limit it to leaving at the end of an academic year, so you're ahead a bit on that point.
However, the penalties are pretty steep, and they do seem unfair, but you don't have much control over that. Why not avoid the penalties by giving notice? You sound like you want to avoid the risk of resigning from your current job before you are signed on for the next one, but again, this is pretty typical in international schools. Most of us have to jump into the breach, fingers crossed we find something before we hit the ground.
What do others do? Some indeed scamper off into the night, using various methods, but they've got your pension fund, so perhaps that's not a real option for you.
By the way, if there's enough in your pension fund after 4 years to fund 11,000 pounds worth of penalties, well done.
However, the penalties are pretty steep, and they do seem unfair, but you don't have much control over that. Why not avoid the penalties by giving notice? You sound like you want to avoid the risk of resigning from your current job before you are signed on for the next one, but again, this is pretty typical in international schools. Most of us have to jump into the breach, fingers crossed we find something before we hit the ground.
What do others do? Some indeed scamper off into the night, using various methods, but they've got your pension fund, so perhaps that's not a real option for you.
By the way, if there's enough in your pension fund after 4 years to fund 11,000 pounds worth of penalties, well done.
Re: Breaking Contracts
My advice is to talk to a lawyer. The school can't just make up arbitrary penalties that are not in your contract or in the country's labor laws.
If you really want to get out and they have all that money, lawyers fees might be worth it.
If you really want to get out and they have all that money, lawyers fees might be worth it.
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Heliotrope
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Re: Breaking Contracts
Remember that you them in the future for references...
It's not fair, but it's the harsh truth.
It's not fair, but it's the harsh truth.
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Heliotrope
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- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Breaking Contracts
*need
Remember that you need them in the future for references...
It's not fair, but it's the harsh truth.
Remember that you need them in the future for references...
It's not fair, but it's the harsh truth.
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Spawnboy99
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 pm
Re: Breaking Contracts
blinky wrote:
> My advice is to talk to a lawyer. The school can't just make up arbitrary
> penalties that are not in your contract or in the country's labor laws.
>
> If you really want to get out and they have all that money, lawyers fees
> might be worth it.
Its states it in the contract
> My advice is to talk to a lawyer. The school can't just make up arbitrary
> penalties that are not in your contract or in the country's labor laws.
>
> If you really want to get out and they have all that money, lawyers fees
> might be worth it.
Its states it in the contract
Response
I concur in part with @Sid, the vast majority of ISs outside of the EU have their intent date around October for what would otherwise be the end of the AY around June which is more than 6 months.
Why would you agree with any of that, you performed service, your entitled to the comp for it. These arent damages the IS is describing, these are punishments. You dont have to participate.
The IS may be taking your pension, its not likely they legally would be able to do so if you make an issue of it, or pursue it on your own. The IS may have some right to some of it back, depends on what their contribution is/as and what your vestment in it is, but if your going to break contract or pull a runner, its worth your time and probably some coin if the value of it after only 4 years is around £11K.
You dont need them for a reference, but it would be difficult ghosting 4 years of experience and spinning that.
I am inclined to agree with the prior contributors, if your contract is up in December June is right around the corner for the 6 month intent notice. You probably dont have a lot a lot of time to consult with an expert or a legal advisor, giving your notice of intent now preserves a lot of benefits. You can always approach your leadership later about staying if you dont find another appointment (and December isnt the best reporting time in the recruiting cycle).
Why would you agree with any of that, you performed service, your entitled to the comp for it. These arent damages the IS is describing, these are punishments. You dont have to participate.
The IS may be taking your pension, its not likely they legally would be able to do so if you make an issue of it, or pursue it on your own. The IS may have some right to some of it back, depends on what their contribution is/as and what your vestment in it is, but if your going to break contract or pull a runner, its worth your time and probably some coin if the value of it after only 4 years is around £11K.
You dont need them for a reference, but it would be difficult ghosting 4 years of experience and spinning that.
I am inclined to agree with the prior contributors, if your contract is up in December June is right around the corner for the 6 month intent notice. You probably dont have a lot a lot of time to consult with an expert or a legal advisor, giving your notice of intent now preserves a lot of benefits. You can always approach your leadership later about staying if you dont find another appointment (and December isnt the best reporting time in the recruiting cycle).
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Heliotrope
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Re: Breaking Contracts
Uhm, yes, you do need them for a reference. If any of your former schools is going to be contacted it's your most recent one, so it's best to just avoid having the need to ghost anything or to endanger the relationship with your current school by doing a runner.
Six months notice is pretty normal after all. Best to avoid the -indeed steep– fine by just giving notice, as Sid suggests.
It makes sense that there's a sizeable fine, and breaking contract should be avoided by both teachers and schools. I can understand why the school would take it out of your pension fund, since it's the only way to make sure you don't pull a runner without them being compensated for it, albeit the 11,000 sounds way too high.
It might be worthwhile just discussing it with your school. Sometimes schools are not unsympathetic if you have a good reason (schools are people too). If not, just give notice now and finish your contract.
Are these fines in the contract btw?
Six months notice is pretty normal after all. Best to avoid the -indeed steep– fine by just giving notice, as Sid suggests.
It makes sense that there's a sizeable fine, and breaking contract should be avoided by both teachers and schools. I can understand why the school would take it out of your pension fund, since it's the only way to make sure you don't pull a runner without them being compensated for it, albeit the 11,000 sounds way too high.
It might be worthwhile just discussing it with your school. Sometimes schools are not unsympathetic if you have a good reason (schools are people too). If not, just give notice now and finish your contract.
Are these fines in the contract btw?
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Spawnboy99
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:14 pm
Re: Breaking Contracts
Thanks,
For your feedback, some have asked if this ie terms and agreement is written in the contract, which it is so as some would state its clear in black and white. So the only course is to talk to the HOS, or if you wanting to renew that you try and negotiate different terms and conditions for leaving. My biggest issue is that they shouldn't be claiming airline tickets and shipping for a contract that is already completed and that you have honoured. Can understand airfares and shipping when you leave they shouldn't pay for (which your new school would cover).
Will update you all once have spoken to HOS and will no doubt write a review on this school in due course.
For your feedback, some have asked if this ie terms and agreement is written in the contract, which it is so as some would state its clear in black and white. So the only course is to talk to the HOS, or if you wanting to renew that you try and negotiate different terms and conditions for leaving. My biggest issue is that they shouldn't be claiming airline tickets and shipping for a contract that is already completed and that you have honoured. Can understand airfares and shipping when you leave they shouldn't pay for (which your new school would cover).
Will update you all once have spoken to HOS and will no doubt write a review on this school in due course.
Reply
@Heliotrope
No, you ant a positive references you dont need one, there are options and alternatives.
Well its also best not to allow yourself to be taken advantage of as well.
It doesnt make sense the penalty in this scenario, the IS is proposing revoking all benefits and allowances even those earned in prior contracts for full performance of service.
Why should an IS be compensated for anything, if they have damages file for arbitration. This isnt servitude.
No, you ant a positive references you dont need one, there are options and alternatives.
Well its also best not to allow yourself to be taken advantage of as well.
It doesnt make sense the penalty in this scenario, the IS is proposing revoking all benefits and allowances even those earned in prior contracts for full performance of service.
Why should an IS be compensated for anything, if they have damages file for arbitration. This isnt servitude.
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Heliotrope
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Re: Reply
Of course it's still possible to get a job without that reference, but your chances will improve vastly if you don't have to ghost the last 4 years or can't produce any references, and instead have a good reference from your current school. But yes, you can always go to a crap school where all you need to show to get a job is a credential, or merely a white face and a pulse. Serious schools want references from your most recent schools, or a very, very good explanation why you can't produce any.
And there can be a penalty for breaking contract. You've signed it, knowing what was in it. As I said, a $11,000 penalty is way too high, but both the IS and the IT should honor the contract. Unless one . doesn't live up to their end, then the other doesn't have to either. There are a few exceptions, for example if a civil war breaks out and your safety is endangered.
And there can be a penalty for breaking contract. You've signed it, knowing what was in it. As I said, a $11,000 penalty is way too high, but both the IS and the IT should honor the contract. Unless one . doesn't live up to their end, then the other doesn't have to either. There are a few exceptions, for example if a civil war breaks out and your safety is endangered.
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secondplace
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm
Re: Breaking Contracts
If those penalties are what's in the contract that you signed then that is what the school can choose to do.
Leaving now makes it hard for the school to successfully recruit for the next school year, hence why schools have intention dates and notice periods. These vary from country to country and region to region.
I would suggest talking to your school about completing the next academic year and then leaving. If this means breaking contract - maybe you're on a 3 year contract? - then you would be able to argue that you are giving them plenty of notice and they might choose to not apply the penalties.
If you really want to leave now then you will likely have to put up with the penalties, whether you think they are fair or not.
Leaving now makes it hard for the school to successfully recruit for the next school year, hence why schools have intention dates and notice periods. These vary from country to country and region to region.
I would suggest talking to your school about completing the next academic year and then leaving. If this means breaking contract - maybe you're on a 3 year contract? - then you would be able to argue that you are giving them plenty of notice and they might choose to not apply the penalties.
If you really want to leave now then you will likely have to put up with the penalties, whether you think they are fair or not.
Reply
@Heliotrope
Thats not true, every IT/DT got a job at the start of their career without a teaching reference. This IS doesnt sound like its that good of an IS, likely the bottom of the third tier if thats the draconian penalty assessment for breaking contract.
Did they know what it was though. The LW rote they had to go ask HR hat the penalties are, if they were in the contract, all you would have to do is look at the contract. It sounds at best that the contract may have stipulated the notice and intent time but forgo the penalties for not complying.
@secondplace
It doesnt sound like that is the case though. It sounds at best that the contract may have stipulated the notice and intent time but forgo the penalties for not complying.
Lots of things are hard, it doesnt mean an IS has any right or entitlement to make up a penalty because they say so.
The LW doesnt need to stay they can submit their intent no and meet the 6 month and end of AY requirement. Thats not the LWs question, its how bad would it really be if they broke contract.
No this is a renewed contract the LW already completed the first contract and the IS wants to penalize against that as well. The LW completed their first contract and now the IS is saying they arent going to complete their obligations under the first contract that has already been performed.
Thats not true, every IT/DT got a job at the start of their career without a teaching reference. This IS doesnt sound like its that good of an IS, likely the bottom of the third tier if thats the draconian penalty assessment for breaking contract.
Did they know what it was though. The LW rote they had to go ask HR hat the penalties are, if they were in the contract, all you would have to do is look at the contract. It sounds at best that the contract may have stipulated the notice and intent time but forgo the penalties for not complying.
@secondplace
It doesnt sound like that is the case though. It sounds at best that the contract may have stipulated the notice and intent time but forgo the penalties for not complying.
Lots of things are hard, it doesnt mean an IS has any right or entitlement to make up a penalty because they say so.
The LW doesnt need to stay they can submit their intent no and meet the 6 month and end of AY requirement. Thats not the LWs question, its how bad would it really be if they broke contract.
No this is a renewed contract the LW already completed the first contract and the IS wants to penalize against that as well. The LW completed their first contract and now the IS is saying they arent going to complete their obligations under the first contract that has already been performed.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1167
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Reply
Yes, you start out without references at the start of your career. That's why you usually start at a bad school, because you lack experience, and they have to guess what kind of teacher you will be without references to give them an idea.
So if you choose not to ghost the 4 years experience, you will have those 4 years on your CV, which will get you into a better school, and higher on the pay scale at that school.
All the more reason to make sure you can get good references, or those 4 years won't count for anything when recruiting.
We don't know if it's in the contract, it hasn't been mentioned. The standard contract might state what (flights, moving allowance, etc.) you will have to pay for when breaking contract, without listing the actual amounts. So maybe the OP went to HR to ask what it actual amounts the total adds up to. Also, don't underestimate how many ITs lose track of where their contract is, or will just go to HR rather than going through the contract.
We don't know, only the OP knows.
So if you choose not to ghost the 4 years experience, you will have those 4 years on your CV, which will get you into a better school, and higher on the pay scale at that school.
All the more reason to make sure you can get good references, or those 4 years won't count for anything when recruiting.
We don't know if it's in the contract, it hasn't been mentioned. The standard contract might state what (flights, moving allowance, etc.) you will have to pay for when breaking contract, without listing the actual amounts. So maybe the OP went to HR to ask what it actual amounts the total adds up to. Also, don't underestimate how many ITs lose track of where their contract is, or will just go to HR rather than going through the contract.
We don't know, only the OP knows.
Reply
@Heliotrope
Not always true, most ITs start out with their 2 years in DE before entering IE. Not every IT starts out at the bottom, its entirely possible to get a tier 1 appointment with no prior IE experience.
You dont lose those four years permanently. You ghost them, complete a contract with a positive reference, likely ata better IS than the one the IS is at, and then you put those four years previously ghosted back on your resume and buried under the current most recent experience.
It might, but if it sid that, and the L experienced all those things surely they know how much they cost. How hard is it to put together what to years of your salary is, etc. Why would anyone need to ask HR about that? But yes we dont have all the data from the LW.
I would be very surprised if an IT did not know where there current contract is, or having these questions would at least go find it before going to HR.
Not always true, most ITs start out with their 2 years in DE before entering IE. Not every IT starts out at the bottom, its entirely possible to get a tier 1 appointment with no prior IE experience.
You dont lose those four years permanently. You ghost them, complete a contract with a positive reference, likely ata better IS than the one the IS is at, and then you put those four years previously ghosted back on your resume and buried under the current most recent experience.
It might, but if it sid that, and the L experienced all those things surely they know how much they cost. How hard is it to put together what to years of your salary is, etc. Why would anyone need to ask HR about that? But yes we dont have all the data from the LW.
I would be very surprised if an IT did not know where there current contract is, or having these questions would at least go find it before going to HR.