Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

DomeVet
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:16 am

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by DomeVet »

Confidential references done again? Even if I already had them submitted to the original Schrole? Oh my God, forget it.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by shadowjack »

DomeVet - not sure if they were already there you have to do it again. You should ask them - but don't expect an automatic you don't need to upload them/get them again. I'd give it a 70/30 chance of 70 you are fine, 30 you have to do it again.
funteacher
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by funteacher »

I would like to ask the flipside of this question. I am part of a teaching couple with some international (MYP and IB) teaching experience. I teach math and my wife teaches Chinese. We have used Search in the past. The database is great but they're not helpful. But Search is expensive, and $450 is a lot of money to spend on Search. But mathematically, if we get better/higher paying jobs it's worth it. Also, we have been in Asia for sometime, and we know the number of Chinese jobs outside of Asia are very limited.

Would anyone in our case say that Search is worth the extra coin? We're considering not using them this upcoming cycle. We keep contact with all of our old references so filling out the profiles on other sites shouldn't be a problem.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

I would tend to agree with @bounty and disagree with @Sid, while there are some agencies that actually are hiring for ISs, its more common an agency presents an IS with 1-3 candidates and lets them make the hiring decision (its a liability issue), but more and more of the work in recruiting is being offloaded to various agencies.

I disagree with @MartElla SA and ISS arent the only reputable agencies. There are many very small ISs that have minimal recruiting that doent need a premium agency and its not cost beneficial to them to do so.
I agree with @Sj, that many of the agencies outside of the premium agencies are little more than home office shops of one or two people that are scouting on spec for an IS and getting a placement fee if they make a connection.

ISS and Schrole entered into a five year collaboration agreement, ISS still maintains their managed recruiting service separate from Schrole. There is no independent service on offer from Schrole. There databases were integrated, butt hey maintain meta data tags that allow revenue tracking and the profiles to diverge again. The advantage to ITs is a lower cost of entry into the ISS/Schrole database. In addition to lowering the cost the 1 year vs. 2 year membership benefits a substantial number of ITs, who will only be recruiting for one cycle. The disadvantage is its much harder to get into the consultant managed program if you werent already in it.

ISS is more the boutique experience and SA is more the IKEA experience.
SA doesnt support their service to ITs, because ITs arent the client, they are the commodity.

In the UK its prohibited for an individual, or agency to take coin to assist or aid an individual to find or apply for a job. There are exemptions for LEA and some edu boards, but IE and mainly SA doesnt qualify as any of those (though with the Teach Now partnership that may change). As such you dont pay SA a fee to register with their UK office.

SA invoicing changes fluctuate between associates. In the case of the UK placement office the fee difference is marginal, its not a significant amount even compared to the candidate registration fee, in exchange the SA UK office has exclusive access to a very large pool of candidates.

Its not something an IS can really predict or get a quote on. The SA UK office wont give a quote in advance what the invoicing will or could be for a UK candidate vs. a non UK candidate repped by a different associates office. Except to know that no associate will quote a placement invoice in advance and that the UK invoice fee difference is marginal compared to the standard fee. Its usually 1) Not worth the thought and effort going into it, and an IS that was seriously considering it would be better served trying to get out of the invoice fee entirely by going outside SA to begin with, its more predictable and takes less resources. 2) Rarely are any to ITS that close that the invoice different would matter. Yes hiring differences usually come down to marginal and trivial differences, but the unknown cost differential of a UK vs non-UK associate isnt likely to be one of them.
It is possible though, which creates an interesting scenario for candidates, they would typically register with the UK office, but there isnt a mechanism that forces the IT to do so, they could easily manipulate the online tool and use a different associate and pay the fee which in the scope of an ITs comp is insignificant but would then probably be marginally more competitive as a UK IT compared to other UK ITs and equally as competitive on this factor excluding all others vs other non-UK ITs. Ina system were very small differences matter, while an upper tier ISs isnt likely to consider the cost differential even as a factor and low enough ISs are more inclined to cheat the SA system anyway, there would be that segment of the lower tier ISs that could save a very small amount of coin in the invoicing cost between the short short list of UK candidates who all would otherwise have very similar resumes.

I disagree with @Sid you want to apply using both the button and directly using their email address. First, when you click the apply button, all its doing is sending a notice to the registered email address with a link for the IS to access your portfolio. Its doesnt actually send any of the application documents. Meaning the IS doesnt actually have possession of them and must if they want to create a permanent record, go into your profile and print the documents virtually (as PDFs) and then they have to store them and manage and organize them themselves, which is much different than managing emails of applications. Second, the IS is limited to what information they can access to that located in the profile. Third, ISs use different email routing and management filters for various accounts. Usually they have multiple inboxes for sorting different avenues for applications. One box might go directly to the HOS, one might go to the division principal, and one might just go to HR or some other staff member. The IT doesnt know where their email is going, so your better off applying through multiple venues thus increasing your hit and access rate. Fourth, applying directly allows you to construct a better and more complete application packet. Fifth, always follow the instructions in the vacancy.

@funteacher

If your going to use SA and get two offers through them that you wouldnt get otherwise than its absolutely worth the $450. If youre not going to use them though or only use them peripherally its probably not worth the full $450. You do have options though you can cut the cost in half by only registering one of you (most likely you for maths). This will get you the full database access and your spouse can always copy and paste email applications directly in the cases where an IS has a maths and a Chinese language vacancy. The other option is you can create a new profile and register through the UK office which has no fee or register as an intern.
Elysium82
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:30 am

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by Elysium82 »

DomeVet wrote:
> Is only using Search Associates a mistake or am I really missing out by not
> using other services? If yes, is it because of missing out on specific
> posted vacancies or just having my resume and profile activated with
> another service for potential employers to view. And if so, which other
> services should I be using? I've been teaching for 20 years and know of
> other services and have old accounts but with not an abundance of time I'm
> wondering which services I should focus my attention on.

If you are a non-native ESL teacher: don't even try. I have a BA and a PGCEi from England and no one cares. The fairs might make a difference (never been to one...my agent didn't really bother inviting me to one when I registered and then covid19 happened).

I think it is geared towards subject teachers. A teacher who is qualified enough, can find the same jobs without SA. In my opinion, you are paying for the comfort of a database that makes it easier to apply. Keep that in mind.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

The broader and more involved an ITs job search is the more value a premium agency such as SA can provide.
steve416
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:13 am

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by steve416 »

I agree that the Search database is useful. You can "filter" it as well, set email alerts etc. As mentioned above, if you are aiming for something really specific it is perhaps not worth it.

I have been tempted to activate my profile a year early and just watch the database to see what jobs come and go (market research of a sort) but the need to get references from my current employer always stops me.

Search keeping confidential references is also useful. It is hard to track someone down that you worked for a couple schools ago and ask them for a reference. This and the database are the most useful part. The actual associates don't do anything.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@steve416

If the research interest is worth the coin to you just register (perhaps as an intern candidate, thus not needing IS/employer references) under a pseudonym. You can then utilize the database to fulfill whatever your curiosities are. You can even save the coin by registering though the UK office.
steve416
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:13 am

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by steve416 »

That's a good idea. I am a UK citizen and have an address there so that could work. Thanks for the idea!
Monster
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:06 am

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by Monster »

Search Associates is expensive and when push comes to shove they do not have your back. Several of us got stuck at a very bad school in Saudi Arabia and they did nothing to help us at all and are still sending teachers to that school.

You are paying for access to their database and yes there are some great schools on there, but the majority of the schools are third tier local ones that are not really international schools.

Your associate does not actively recruit for you and all you pay for is their data base. Interestingly enough they ask you to pay to find a job and then the schools pay them high amounts to recruit from their database. I wonder how long they will be able to get away with this current set up.

Whatever you do try to find out as much about the school as you can and read between the lines of reviews etc. Remember they are there to make money and they primarily work for the school as they are the ones paying the most cash.
meerkat
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:05 am

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by meerkat »

Agreed w/ Monster. Not a huge fan of Search Associates. I thought SA would provide some sort of support for teachers who have been misled, their contracts were not honored, or had contractual problems with an international school that they matched on SA until I and a few other colleagues experienced otherwise. SA offered no support whatsoever despite multiple complaints from several SA represented teachers about the same school, which is not even an international school per se, but as long as they are paying their fees, they are on SA's database. The so-called school is still advertising positions on SA and continuing their bad practices with new contracts/ hires. It would have been nice if SA were being diligent with verifying schools' credibility as much as they are concerned with teachers' profile photographs. (which I think, is about to change now as they have been "working on creating more diverse, inclusive, and equitable organization" - in their words-, and no profile photographs will be required starting 2021)

My associate is a sweet old guy, but he has never provided me with any valuable information, insight or advice over the past 5 years. He only repeats what I already know or can learn by reading profiles. I attempted to change associates, but that seems near impossible. Once you choose an associate while you are first signing up you are pretty much stuck with that one, either you like it or not. We, international school teachers basically pay for SA's school database and to see who is advertising what. (Some ads may even be outdated). That's about it. The rest is up to the teacher. I always recommend applying to the school directly. If you already have a "dream list" check those schools' websites in November, use your '6 degrees of separation' to find someone who worked/working at that school to get more info (and to spread a good word about you ;)

I've seen schools advertising positions before teachers giving their letters of intent or officially resigning, but teachers cannot reactivate their SA accounts without getting letters from their current HoSs, directors, principals, which I don't think is fair either. Overall I find SA far from being good, but they have been around the block for a while. So there is that.
Elysium82
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:30 am

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by Elysium82 »

Elysium82 wrote:
> DomeVet wrote:
> > Is only using Search Associates a mistake or am I really missing out by not
> > using other services? If yes, is it because of missing out on specific
> > posted vacancies or just having my resume and profile activated with
> > another service for potential employers to view. And if so, which other
> > services should I be using? I've been teaching for 20 years and know of
> > other services and have old accounts but with not an abundance of time I'm
> > wondering which services I should focus my attention on.
>
> If you are a non-native ESL teacher: don't even try. I have a BA and a PGCEi from
> England and no one cares. The fairs might make a difference (never been to one...my
> agent didn't really bother inviting me to one when I registered and then covid19
> happened).
>
> I think it is geared towards subject teachers. A teacher who is qualified enough, can
> find the same jobs without SA. In my opinion, you are paying for the comfort of a
> database that makes it easier to apply. Keep that in mind.

Let me update my earlier comment:

Just finished my first fair with them. As I was saying stay away from them if you are a non-native English teacher (even if you are highly-qualified. Passports matter more). They can't help you and what others have mentioned is true too (they wont support you properly). It is all about access to what is already out there. If you want the luxury of having everything right in front of you, then go for it....but even that wont guarantee a job offer. So...do the maths...is it worth paying 250 CAD for that?
chemteacher101
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:57 pm

Re: Is only using Search Associates a mistake?

Post by chemteacher101 »

I completely agree that SA don't really have your back, and that they are not useful other than because of their database. Having said that, you previously posted: "I have a BA and a PGCEi from England and no one cares"; I am not sure if you have already asked here for a general view of you and your possibilities, but having a BA ad a PGCEi is not "highly qualified" by any means. The PGCEi is not an actual teaching license (does not get you QTS), which means that if all you have is that, it basically equates to being considered unqualified by many schools (and some countries immigration systems).

Independently of this, I would say that non-Native English teachers are (generally) not really taken into account by many schools. It varies, of course, but the reality is that in many countries, parents are paying for the "correct" look/passport/accent... It's a sad reality, but it is a reality...
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

A PGCEi is not a credential, but it far more than some 100hr TESOL certificate, in the third tier many ITs are working with a PGCEi, just as there are many ITs working with nothing more than an M.Ed or other degree. There are a number of US credentials that will not get you QTS either and require little more than taking some exams.

IE is very much English colonial edu, outside of some TAs, aides and FL or some sports ITs, IE is really not interested in non-native English ITs, no matter what the statements of inclusivity say. SA isnt going to sit in the room, and they dont make offers or appointments.
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