Location, Location, Location!

PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames Pirate

There are no ISs with reputations not indicative of their tier. Im very content professionally with my employment in DODEA.

@sid

No, right. You and @Thames Pirate are both confusing homicide which may or not be illegal and murder which is an outcome based on criminal adjudication. There are perfectly legal actions that result int he death of a human being that arent illegal and arent murder. The uncaught murder isnt a murderer at all, until thats been adjudicated, they might be a killer, but the determination of the lawfulness of that act requires criminal adjudication.
The plagiarist isnt a plagiarist until its adjudicated thats the case, adjudication is required to determine the appropriate intent of the action within the scope and context of the society. In some cultures what you call plagiarism is simply the highest form of flattery, copying the masters is how one demonstrates competency.

You do understand that there are different venues of adjudication, that innocent until proven guilty is a presumption in criminal adjudication thats appropriate to the accusations of Harvey, that its not the sole forum and venue for adjudication.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Reply

Post by sid »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Sid
> Adjudication that an individual need concern themselves with in
> terms of regulating their behavior lies in the competent judicial system of
> authority

I’m not confused at all. Just calling you on what you said.

Disagreeing with you is not the same as being confused, though I understand you may find this concept... confusing.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

You seem confused that we disagree.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Reply

Post by Thames Pirate »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Thames Pirate
>
> There are no ISs with reputations not indicative of their tier.

In other words every school that has slipped has been bumped from the top tier list? In the same way every murderer has been caught?
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Location, Location, Location!

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Thames Pirate
>
> There are no ISs with reputations not indicative of their tier. Im very content professionally
> with my employment in DODEA.
>
> @sid
>
> No, right. You and @Thames Pirate are both confusing homicide which may or not be
> illegal and murder which is an outcome based on criminal adjudication. There are
> perfectly legal actions that result int he death of a human being that arent illegal
> and arent murder. The uncaught murder isnt a murderer at all, until thats been
> adjudicated, they might be a killer, but the determination of the lawfulness of
> that act requires criminal adjudication.
> The plagiarist isnt a plagiarist until its adjudicated thats the case, adjudication
> is required to determine the appropriate intent of the action within the scope and
> context of the society. In some cultures what you call plagiarism is simply the
> highest form of flattery, copying the masters is how one demonstrates competency.
>
>
> You do understand that there are different venues of adjudication, that innocent
> until proven guilty is a presumption in criminal adjudication thats appropriate
> to the accusations of Harvey, that its not the sole forum and venue for adjudication.
=========
Wow, so then that Hitler guy shouldn’t really be considered such a bad hombre since he was never actually convicted of anything. Good to know, because I’m sure I’ve been guilty of maligning his character over the years. Or have I, since I was never convicted of slander or libel? PG World can be a very confusing place at times.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames Pirate

There are no previously 1st tier ISs that are now second tier ISs that have a first tier reputation. Second tier ISs have a second tier reputation and 1st tier ISs have a 1st tier reputation.

@WT123

No, he was never convicted but died (by suicide) pending trial, he may very well have been exonerated. Hes dead though, so whats the issue? If the Nuremberg trials were not to provide that adjudication, than why have them. Why give Harvey a trial, why bother arresting him, why charge him, just have a mob show up at his home and execute justice that way, is that what youre advocating? Could his accusers be wrong, could they be lying, could Harvey be absolutely innocent of everything?
Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Thames Pirate
>
> There are no previously 1st tier ISs that are now second tier ISs that have
> a first tier reputation. Second tier ISs have a second tier reputation and
> 1st tier ISs have a 1st tier reputation.

Yes there are. It takes time for the news of changes at a school to reach people, as there is no official list of tier 1 schools.
I've heard more than 1 person mention quite recently that there are three tier 1 schools in Ho Chi Minh City. At some point that may have been true, but most ITS who do their research will agree that isn't true right now. They also didn't know one of the schools they thought was tier 1 is now a for-profit school.
Not everybody does research all the time, and rely on old information. ITs on this board do more research than most I think, but a lot of ITs I know base themselves on past reputations that are no longer rooted in reality.


And in a murder case the court system merely establishes guilt and then passes judgement, which means the murderer was also a murderer before guilt was established.
But I moved away from Weinstein and suggested Madoff as an example of someone whose reputation (as someone you can entrust your life's savings to) wasn't reflecting reality.
Of course there are reputations that don't reflect reality. Sometimes they never did, sometimes they don't anymore. But you know this very well, you're just trolling.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

No there arent.

No they dont the court takes a homicide and then adjudicates if it as unlawful and thus murder. Until then and only until then you just have a human that killed another human.

Madoff isnt an ISs.
Thames Pirate
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Reply

Post by Thames Pirate »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Thames Pirate
>
> There are no previously 1st tier ISs that are now second tier ISs that have
> a first tier reputation. Second tier ISs have a second tier reputation and
> 1st tier ISs have a 1st tier reputation.
>

So they have all been adjudicated? By whom, you? There are a number of listed Tier one schools that have not been "convicted" of dropping down, but they still commit the offenses. But of course when you are the judge and jury, you can acquit any school you want and continue to make that claim. The rest of us will weigh the evidence, not just your claims--especially given your rather loose understanding of truth. *grabs popcorn for inevitable semantic and/or pseudo-philosophical blather about the definition of truth*


> @WT123
>
> No, he was never convicted but died (by suicide) pending trial, he may very
> well have been exonerated. Hes dead though, so whats the issue? If the
> Nuremberg trials were not to provide that adjudication, than why have them.
> Why give Harvey a trial, why bother arresting him, why charge him, just
> have a mob show up at his home and execute justice that way, is that what
> youre advocating? Could his accusers be wrong, could they be lying, could
> Harvey be absolutely innocent of everything?

Could Hitler?

Sure, it's possible. It's also possible to be guilty but not convicted due to technicalities such as mishandled evidence. It doesn't make a person guilty to be convicted--it just means we have found them so. What makes a person guilty is actually committing the act.
Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

> Madoff isnt an ISs.

It was an example of how reputation doesn't always reflect reality.
True for people, true for schools.

And it was murder before the verdict was read. The legal system just established that it was, based on the facts.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Reputation always reflects reality, thats literally the definition of reputation. Madoff was a great guy with a great reputation, then he wasnt a great guy and didnt have a great reputation.

No it wasnt, it was homicide, until after the verdict then it as murder.
Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> Reputation always reflects reality, thats literally the definition of reputation.

That's NOT the definition at all.
The actual definition is "the beliefs or opinions that are generally held about someone or something".
Those beliefs or opinions about a person or an IS don't necessarily reflect reality.
That's why dictators hire publicity firms: to make people think they're not dictators. When successful, they don't stop being dictators, people who don't do proper research just think they aren't.


Madoff was a great guy with a great reputation, then he wasnt a
> great guy and didnt have a great reputation.

Nope. His reputation wasn't reflecting reality: he was stealing around $20 billion in principal funds that were invested with him while he still had a great reputation. He was already stealing when people were still making investments with him based on that reputation.


> No it wasnt, it was homicide, until after the verdict then it as murder.

It was always murder, they just had to prove that it was to get the verdict. 'Was' as in past tense.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

Yes it does what do you think those beliefs and opinions reflect if not reality.

Yes it did reflect reality. He wasn’t stealing he was investing by using funds from new investors to pay dividends to older investors. When the investors became unsatisfied with this, his reputation fell, because why, he wasn’t trustworthy in their perceptions.

No it wasnt, it was homicide, until after the verdict then it as murder.
Heliotrope
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> Yes it does what do you think those beliefs and opinions reflect if not
> reality.

Reality is the state of things as they actually exist. An opinion, however, is a statement that holds an element of belief; it tells how someone feels. An opinion is not always true and cannot be proven.


> Yes it did reflect reality. He wasn’t stealing he was investing by using
> funds from new investors to pay dividends to older investors. When the
> investors became unsatisfied with this, his reputation fell, because why,
> he wasn’t trustworthy in their perceptions.

He was wilfully conning people out of their money, while still maintaining a good reputation.


> No it wasnt, it was homicide, until after the verdict then it as murder.

It was murder if the murderer intended to kill the other person (sometimes with premeditation).
So if you can prove the intention (or premeditation), you demonstrate that it was a murder that took place.
The court just establishes that it was murder all along.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

Thats why the qualifier "reflect" is used in the statement.

He wasnt conning people.

Thats not what murder is, soldiers in battle intend to kill their human targets its not murder. Its homicide, its not murder until after the adjudication.
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