Location, Location, Location!

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

The first one of course: "Actually, I don't work. I'm a teacher, but I enjoy it, so it's more a hobby that I get paid for"?"

Dictionary terms arent finalized based on popular vote.

[Heliotrope]

> The first one of course: "Actually, I don't work. I'm a teacher, but I
> enjoy it, so it's more a hobby that I get paid for"?"

I don't anyone but you would opt for that as a likely answer.


> Dictionary terms arent finalized based on popular vote.

No, but they reflect what is a word is thought to represent in society, unless it's a technical term. If nobody used the word in a certain manner anymore but in a different one, the definition would eventually change accordingly.

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

I doubt the number of ITs who enjoy their job are the majority.

That sounds like a lot of TPF. The definition wouldnt change it would evolve, the OED would still include the historical definitions.

[Thames Pirate]

Actually, Heliotrope is right. That is exactly how it works. As usage changes or as words are created, they are modified or added to the dictionary based on common understanding of meaning. If a meaning is archaic, this is noted. Meaning is also related to context, and in this case context says that Heliotrope is right.

I love that any claim PsyGuy decides is wrong is now attributed to me and dismissed as TPF without any basis in reality.

We all know that good schools do not remain so. We know that poor leadership can turn a previously good school into an awful place to work. We know that schools commit ethically questionable or even illegal acts that turn them into a nightmare. We know that teachers give up on programs or retire/move on, causing programs to collapse. Good schools CAN remain good, but they don't do so simply because people recognise the name.

Also, yes, some practices from decades past are still relevant. However, you said once teachers have figured it out, they're done. Those teachers from the 1980s who are still up with recent literature and who have updated their practices are those who never think they're done. They don't make a school go stale. It is those who think that doing it well once means that is how it should be done forever who wreck a school.

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

Actually no, @Heliotrope is wrong thats not how dictionary entries and revisions are done. Though definitions are marked as archaic.

Its dismissed as TPF because it doesnt have any basis in reality.

Good ISs do remain good, the historical stability of such ISs is nearly unbreakable. Good ISs dont hire bad leadership. Good ITs leave and good ITs replace them thus sustaining their programs.
People recognize the name because they have established and maintained being good ISs.

No, the vast majority of practices from decades past are and continue to remain the same. Not doing it once, doing it right for a decade means thats how it should be done.

[Heliotrope]

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> I doubt the number of ITs who enjoy their job are the majority.

Well, I never said that they are, I just said that even the ones that enjoy it would describe their job as 'work, simply beause if you get paid to do it, it's your work.


> That sounds like a lot of TPF. The definition wouldnt change it would
> evolve, the OED would still include the historical definitions.

Evolution is change.
And yes, it would still include the historical meaning of the word for a certain number of decades, but that would no longer be the operational meaning of the word.

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

So someone who goes to Bhutan and teaches without salary as a volunteer 8am-4pm, 5 days a week, prepares lessons, marks student assignments, issue grades, attends meetings with parents and other staff they arent working because they dont arent getting paid?
You dont know what work is.

But not all change is evolution. Operational definitions are not dictionary definitions. You dont know hat operational definition means.

[Thames Pirate]

Good ITs often don't leave the "golden ticket" jobs, but stay where they are and keep doing things the way they have always done. They get complacent and no longer do after school clubs or programs (or do them poorly), no longer show up to events, and no longer try new things. So the formerly good teachers become bad. If this group reaches a critical mass, the school can become average or even bad.

Bad leadership can be people hired by boards (which DO change) or promoted from within to a position for which they are not qualified or not ready. These people can make bad hiring decisions, thus further pulling down the quality of the school.

Often even the good leadership can be fooled by the number of years on a resume and will hire teachers likely to become those fossils mentioned above rather than dynamic teachers with slightly less experience. This also means that the good teachers end up at the formerly Tier 2 school until it becomes the better place for students and teachers.

Those on the paid site can look at the reviews for the "top" schools. Some of them are still fantastic. Others have a series of horrible reviews. Asking around gets similar results. The same is also true of "Tier 2" schools; many of them have amazing reviews from parents and teachers alike.

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

No, thats TPF, they get good at practice and keep doing good practice. Ne things arent better things. They havent become bad because they dont meet the criterion of @Thames Pirate.

Thats TPF, sure bad leadership can do that, but were talking about the top established ISs, that dont generally have bad leadership, and good leadership doesnt go work for malevolent ownership. Thats part of ho good established ISs stay good.

They arent fossils, theyre highly experienced and competent ITs who just because they make it look easy doesnt mean its inferior. Dynamic like energy doent mean good, just because an IT has the years of experience that has allowed them to be efficient doesnt mean they arent great at teaching. Having some younger less experienced IT who believes energy and action is productivity and efficacy is wrong. Thats just more TPF nonsense.

TPF bunk, tier 2 ISs are never better than tier 1 ISs, thats why theyre tier 2.

[Heliotrope]

PsyGuy wrote:
> So someone who goes to Bhutan and teaches without salary as a volunteer 8am-4pm,
> 5 days a week, prepares lessons, marks student assignments, issue grades, attends
> meetings with parents and other staff they arent working because they dont arent
> getting paid?
> You dont know what work is.

If that's your opinion, why wouldn't teaching be work for me if I enjoy my job then?

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

"Job" and "work" are not the same/equal.

[Heliotrope]

Having gone through countless reviews, and having talked extensively to ITs that have worked at (former) tier 1 schools: yes, tier 1 schools that have had a good reputation for a long time can still go from good to mediocre. People will still refer to it as tier 1 because it had that designation for so long it has become an assumption that it will always be that way, where some of those schools would be considered tier 2 when given the proper scrutiny.

And the same goes for schools that are regarded as tier 2, but have grown and matured to the point where they should be considered tier 1, given the same scrutiny. It's just as hard for a former tier 2 to get regarded as tier 1, as it is for a former tier 1 to lose that tier 1 label after most of what made it tier 1 has withered.

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

Having conducted exhaustive research and interviews and having discussed extensively with ITs past and present at tier 1 ISs, tier 1 ISs do not become mediocre ISs, if that were true they would no longer be tier 1 ISs. Were tier 2 ISs to grow out of tier 2 than they would be tier 1 ISs. Saying otherwise is nutter TPF talk.

[Heliotrope]

PsyGuy wrote:
> @Heliotrope
>
> "Job" and "work" are not the same/equal.

If I get asked what line of work I'm in, I shouldn't say I'm a teacher?
And you've used 'work' where you could have used 'job' in past comments.
You're grasping at straws.

If you'd like, I can say I enjoy my 'job'. Does that mean it's not a real job?

[Heliotrope]

So once a school is tier 1, it will always be tier 1, until the end of times?