Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by Thames Pirate »

Malarazz wrote:
> Again, thanks everyone for your comments.
>
> @Thames Pirate wrote:
> > If you are also certified in econ, that's a huge plus.
>
> Wait, is it really? So if I get a double credential in MA in Math and Econ, that
> would be a lot more helpful than a single credential in Math? I've never considered
> that, but I'm sure it can't be that hard to add a second subject on the credential.
> And if you're right that it's a huge plus, then it should definitely be worthwhile to
> try doing that, whatever the extra work may be.

I can't speak to your certification requirements, but I can say that being able to teach in two departments is always helpful. This is particularly true at smaller schools. Econ is the hardest of the humanities to fill; you often get generic social studies teachers who are weak in economics teaching it. Getting a specialist is hard. So yes, very much worth the effort.


> Interesting suggestions, I'll keep that in mind, specially Sri Lanka. I'm sure it
> would be safer than Venezuela.

> Oh man, sorry but all these acronyms are throwing me for a loop. I understand ISs
> means International Schools, but when you say "either the BS or AS could be
> interested", what does that mean? What is the SCD program, from a google search
> it appears to be the UK equivalent of a PhD? And I understand LW refers to me, but
> I'm just curious what it stands for?

He's known for his random acronyms. AS is American School and BS is British School. No idea what LW stands for, but the rest of the internet forum world uses OP. Understanding his acronyms is a skill in and of its own.

>
> I'm starting to like that plan. Move to China right around November after I get my MA
> credential(s) and teach English. Be on the lookout for IT positions from December up
> until April or whenever it is that recruiting tends to end. Maybe I'll get very lucky
> like Thames Pirate's friend and get a job at a tier 2 school in Malaysia at that
> point. Otherwise, I'll hope find a job at a worse school and/or worse location.
> Either way, I'll tell my english school "sorry guys, gotta run, peace out~"
> 4 months into the contract and start acquiring IT experience.

Lots of schools hire before December, and in Europe the hiring picks up again late (May). Try not to pull a runner if you can avoid it as it can affect recruiting down the road. Obviously there are reasons one might need to do so, both personal and professional, but the more clear and above-board you can be, the better.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Malarazz

No, its not realistic that maths crosses over to economics. Economics is the most difficult social studies and humanities to find, but its often paired with business or with other social studies courses to make a FTE appointment. Thats what you need to do if economics is what you want to teach. However, I strongly disagree with @Thames Pirate, an IS isnt going to split a maths IT who can teach SLL maths for something like economics. What you find is a maths IT who does physics or CSci.

Its not difficult adding additional subjects in MA you just have to take the appropriate MTEL exam.

Everywhere is probably safer than Venezuela.

IS = International School
BS = British School
AS = American School

I meant that in one of those high conflict areas such as Sri Lanka, and Venezuela, even with minimal credentials and basic qualifications a mid an upper tier IS may be interested in a high needs (such as maths) IT. ITs sign contracts early and then as the summer winds down and they actually have to get on the plane (thats the biggest fear leadership has, that the IT wont get on the plane) they bail and then these ISs have to find someone at the last minute.

SCD = School Direct, its a variety of programs that include salaried, tuition and school centered routes in the UK (England) that essentially involve working with or through a DS. They are basically internship routes of getting QTS.

LW = Letter Writer. The LW is the OP (original poster) who creates and titles the first post that appears in the topic index. Our threads and topics get long sometimes and go off on tangents or are revived at later points. The OP is the writer of whatever the current topic or subject is within a thread. So youre the LW and the OP for this topic but if a poster "Snarf" comes by in a month and asks a similar question as yours but with their own story and attaches it to this one. Than your still the LW, if anyone wants to refer back to you, but Snarf becomes the OP for whatever replies are posted in regards to them.

Id move earlier, if your getting your credential in July, you want to be there middle of August to take advantage of any no shows, by November ISs will have figured out a solution regardless of what it is.

In the recruiting cycle early recruiting starts generally in October/November. Peak recruiting starts in January and ends in February. Then dump fairs until Ma
Illiane_Blues

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by Illiane_Blues »

Nobody uses LW though, so if people reading it don't know what it means, it kind of defeats the purpose of including it in an answer.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by Thames Pirate »

You probably won't find a split economics/maths job, true, but it makes you way more marketable if a school is looking for one or the other. Any cross-credentialing makes you more marketable, especially in high-needs fields. It means that when they suddenly need someone to teach one section of econ, they have you available--something they would not have if they chose another maths teacher. Schools prefer the flexibility. Also, your dream school might be hiring for econ but not maths or vice versa. Flexibility is always a plus, and again, actual econ specialists are not exactly a dime a dozen.

I love that PsyGuy's own applicant scoring system (which is completely his own and not anything official) gives points for cross credentialing but when I suggest it, he becomes contrarian.

The thing is that it won't hurt and it might help significantly. Worth doing.

I do agree that LW is stupid since nobody uses it or understands it. But hey, whatever.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Illiane_Blues

I use it, and I write a lot.

@Malarazz

Having additional credentials helps but its not cross credentialing, which is what the PASS states, "3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)", its not just having more than one credential. Its got to be a vacancy thats combining what would otherwise be two or more IT appointments to staff what would be strictly less than FTE appointments. Maths/Physics thats a common one you find, Maths/Science, less common, Maths/ICT, rare but not unheard of. Maths/Economics, no.

Having additional credentials increases your marketability allowing you to apply competently for more vacancies, but its no better utility than any other IT, including those with a single credential.

@Thames Pirate

Totally official.

Wrong, thats not what your position is your debating simple having additional credentials as being cross credentialed. Thats not what the PASS states, it clearly states "Must be schedule-able", its not additional credentials, that just exist in some TPF bubble.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by Thames Pirate »

Can't be scheduled if you aren't credentialed, so you may as well be credentialed. Unless the school doesn't care about licensure at all, in which case you wouldn't want to work there. Scheduling is the school's issue, not yours, and it varies across schools and by year. Being cross credentialed allows the school flexibility in creating the schedule, which is why Psy assigns it points in the made up scoring system. He isn't wrong about it being of added value. Creating a schedule is beastly, and having teachers that can be plugged in across courses and departments gives a school more options than posting a one year 0.2 Econ job.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by shadowjack »

We have an Econ/Math cross at our school. It is not uncommon at smaller schools.
marieh
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by marieh »

We have an Econ/Math cross at our school as well. The two subjects are just as complementary as physics/math, in my opinion.
Psychometrika
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by Psychometrika »

I teach primarily HS Math and am slated to teach AP Econ next year. I've also had to take over in the middle of year at a previous school when another teacher, who taught mostly history and did not have an econ background, was hopelessly floundering in covering AP Econ material. A lot of social studies teachers, unless business is their area of focus, struggle with teaching econ/business courses.
Illiane_Blues

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by Illiane_Blues »

We have a Math teacher at my current (midsize) school who also teaches a few hours of Econ this year, and at two of my previous schools (both small to midsize schools) there was a Math-Econ IT (0.5/0.5).
I'm credentialed myself in two unrelated subjects, and so far two schools have utilised that.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

We disagree.

@Thames Pirate

Np, Not how it works, ISs dont recruit and then figure placements after that, thy schedule and then recruit for appointments they have to fill.
Scheduling is an IS issue that directly effects ITs and recruitment
Additional credential is not equivalent to being cross credentialed. Thats why being cross credentialed in economics for that .2 FTE vacancy with social studies and other humanities would be valuable but thats not something you find from maths.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

There were just 4 replies in just over a day where ITs said there are Econ/Math cross ITs at their schools, so I imagine lots of schools will be quite happy if you're able to teach both and it will give you an edge over candidates who can only teach one or the other.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Getting a real job at a real school without experience

Post by Thames Pirate »

I am credentialed in three subjects and have taught them all--sometimes scheduled before hiring, sometimes slotted in after being hired, sometimes scheduled a for something new in year two. I have seen colleagues moved mid-year for maternity covers and even saw a teacher switched over to cover a colleague who was very ill for several weeks right before IB exams. The sub took the other teacher's classes so he could take the Econ.

The people on here who don't disagree with me simply because of sour grapes all say the same thing. I think a math/Econ guy can count and do a CBA well enough to come to the logical conclusion.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

The issue isnt if there are maths ITs filling in on some type of basis teaching econ, its if they were recruitd for those roles, which they likely werent. Even if they were nothing surprises me, and I find 4 contributors unpersuasive.

@Thames Pirate

Im credentialed in over 40. I have not taught them all.
Emergency shuffling of faculty is not recruiting for that specific combination.
The evidence just isnt there to support that math/econ is a commonly recruited cross appointment.
I disagree.
Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

You're only assuming they weren't. They might very well have been hired for those roles, especially the ones that are .5/.5.
Either way, I'm assuming the schools were quite happy to hire someone who can teach more than 1 subject, allowing the school some flexibility when making future schedules.

Of course you find 4 contributors unpersuasive, as they didn't support your argument.
Post Reply