Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are we?

marieh
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are we?

Post by marieh »

Hi everyone. My husband and I are considering moving on to a new school after our current contract ends in Spring 2020. While we know we are hireable in general, we are curious as to how feasible it would be to find positions at a Tier 1 school at this point in our careers. I would be looking for a HS math position and he would be looking at an administrative position (principal, assistant principal, etc.). Here’s our current stats:

Years of teaching experience (all overseas): 6 years, all in the same semi-dangerous developing country
Dependents: No, just a dog
Ages: 35 and 36

My Background:
• B.S. and M.S. in Mathematics from state schools
• U.S. teaching license for 6-12 Mathematics
• 6 years experience teaching AP Calculus, 3 years teaching AP Physics 1 and regular physics, 2 years teaching AP Statistics and AP Physics C at the high school.
• 3 years experience teaching classes (Business Statistics and Applied Calculus) at the school’s new community college in addition to my high school position.
• 3 years coaching swimming, 3 years coaching track and field

My Husband’s Background:
• B.S. in Exercise Physiology (state school) and a M.S. in Education with a concentration in Ed Tech from Johns Hopkins
• U.S. Principal License
• Previous experience teaching AP Chemistry, chemistry, and AP Computer Science
• 3 years experience as Assistant High School Principal
• Founder/Head of the school’s new community college
• 2 years experience as Assistant Head of School

Schools we'd be interested in include:
The American International School of Muscat
Singapore American School
IS Frankfurt
Vienna International School
International School of Prague
American School of Warsaw
Taipei American School

So, are we at all competitive as a couple for schools of that caliber, or should we temper our expectations a bit? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
sid
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by sid »

Those are pretty high-reach schools. They'll have tons of applicants for any position they have open.
I've run leadership searches at schools of that level. Your husband's CV is pretty thin compared to the other CV's of leadership applicants. Ok, not so thin as the no-chancers who claim they're ready to leap straight from the football pitch to the Principal's chair, but the competition will include at least 20 applicants with some combination of the following: 20+ years in education, multiple international postings, postings in school with more similar natures (ie, not hardship posts), IB pedigrees (since your list has a lot of IB going on), multiple leadership positions in different schools....
Your list is also quite short, and no guarantee that any of those schools would have a suitable post open at the right time. Probably some will, but your list will be shortened by the simple fact that they're not hiring.
You would do better to open your list up to just about any place with a suitable opening. Apply, apply, apply.
Not having dependents doesn't make much difference at this level. The schools you list would bring you and extra kids if you were the right candidate. If you open your list, it might give you an advantage at some of the smaller or less well-funded schools.
Good luck.
marieh
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by marieh »

Thank you for your reply, Sid. I appreciate the realistic perspective and agree that we'd have a lot of competition in those upper tier schools. We are certainly open to lower tier schools in other countries and will definitely pursue any leads we get. I suppose there's always the hope, however, that we will make it into a dream school.
Heliotrope
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by Heliotrope »

I agree with @sid.
I always like to stay positive, but I really think you're not competitive enough for any of those schools.
The schools you mention are on pretty much everyone's list (although The American International School of Muscat is not up there with the rest of them, in my opinion), and a lot of the people who will be interested in the same positions will be way more competitive than you.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't apply (miracles do happen, and perhaps for one of them you will be exactly what they're looking for at that moment), but it does mean you should also apply at a whole lot of other schools, including schools that are less desirable. There are loads of charming and interesting but lesser known schools out there, some with great savings potential, others with an inspiring academic environment, some in awesome cities, and even a few with all of the above (for example, you mention a school in Taipei, but there's another IS in Taipei, which is great as well, just less well-known, although that one would still be a reach).
Cast a wide net, see which of the schools will interview you, and then pick the best of the offers.

You also might want to consider looking at cities where you can both apply at different schools, and not both at the same, as sometimes a specific combo of vacancies is hard to find, especially if one of them isn't 'Early Years teacher'. Cities like Bangkok and Singapore have tons of schools, so perhaps you can both get jobs there, just not at the same school.

Good luck!
shadowjack
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by shadowjack »

Marieh,

people win the lottery, so apply away. At the same time, if you are putting all your eggs into this basket of schools, it is not likely to pay off as Sid said.

What I would do is look for a middle school - great school in a not-as-great/desireable country, preferably with IB experience to cover the other side of the IB/AP divide. It makes you both more conversant with both.

Good luck!
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

I would generally concur with @Sid, with the exception that if some senior leadership position at the AP/VP/DP level opened or an appointment such as athletic director your spouse could be competitive. Stranger things have happened in IE.

My instinct is as you have already stated youre marketable, and your even marketable to tier 1 but your list is really short and there is a very high probability they just wont be hiring. I get it you want to start at the top of the tiers but its too much of a reach for elite tier. Youre resumes are just too lite.
Modify your focus to second tier or a floater third tier anywhere and your competitive, but if its elite tier or bust, my coin would be against you. That doesnt sound like your interest though. You seem very proud of your accomplishments (and you should be) but if the only move your interested in is 1st/elite tier and spouse has to be in leadership, and only those ISs than IE shouldnt be your plan A, which the feeling Im getting is thats all your interested in.

IB fills a lot of the second tier, it typically bridges ITs careers between the third and the first tier. If thats just not an option for you, than getting IB experience isnt imperative, most Elite tier ISs arent IBWSs or are NC ISs. A second tier NC IS would be better than staying in the third tier for IB experience. At the point your teaching calculus and physics at the SLL for X number of years whether its DIP or AP doesnt really matter, what matters is the students performance.
Heliotrope
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by Heliotrope »

shadowjack wrote:
What I would do is look for a middle school - great school in a
> not-as-great/desireable country, preferably with IB experience to cover the
> other side of the IB/AP divide. It makes you both more conversant with
> both.

Agree with @shadowjack, getting IB experience at a tier 2 school is a good move if you want to end up at a tier 1 school, as over 80% of schools that most would consider tier 1 (there's no official list of course) offer IBDP, as well as 6 out of 7 of the schools on your list.
marieh
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by marieh »

>>but your list is really short and there is a very high probability they just wont be hiring.

I should have worded that part of my OP a bit better. That list was not meant to be exhaustive, but was a representation of the types of schools we eventually aspire to - Elite Tier/Tier 1 in Europe or other cities with a proven good quality of life. We're definitely open to anything, almost anywhere, but the priorities are 1. My husband moving into an admin position and 2. Quality of life. The only thing I'm completely against at this point is areas of the Middle East/China due to pollution and inability to participate in long distance cycling.

>>What I would do is look for a middle school - great school in a not-as-great/desireable country, preferably with IB experience to cover the other side of the IB/AP divide. It makes you both more conversant with both.

Judging by this and other things I have been reading, I think this may be the way forward.

>>whether its DIP or AP doesnt really matter, what matters is the students performance.
Luckily, my student's scores are excellent and I can show a clear increase from after I took over the courses.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@marieh

The EU isnt going to happen, not for what you want. Your spouse just isnt competitive enough for senior leadership at tier 1 ISs in Europe, and as thats your priority, it would likely be a very disappointing reach.

I wouldnt recommend a middle division IS or lower secondary position. First, theres more senior leadership in all secondary or all IS scenarios, whereas a middle division/lower secondary position is going to be in the majority of scenarios a sole division principal. Second, you would be degrading your experience as you cant teach calculus and SLL in a middle division or lower secondary program, no exam scores, and your performance data starts to get dated.
Thames Pirate
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by Thames Pirate »

The EU can absolutely happen. Perhaps not the top schools, but the EU? Certainly. There are TONS of ISs in all kinds of places--many of them new, small, or in off-the-beaten-track places. Some are only middle school but perhaps plan on expanding, so keep your options open. Think places like Brno or Billund or St. Gilgen or Montenegro. Or perhaps more known cities like Munich but lesser known or newer schools like St. George's. Startups are FANTASTIC for getting valuable (though often exhausting) work experiences and for moving into leadership, so maybe there are options there. You might also be able to find something in second schools--Bavarian or IS Warsaw.

There are SO MANY options open to you outside of the top schools in Europe that are still EU and will afford you the quality of life, often a high quality work environment, but without the bragging rights on this forum or the name recognition of older (but often ossified) schools.

You might not have the resume for leadership at a top IS in Europe right now, but you might be the right fit. Apply, regardless of the odds. In the meantime if you have to take a job at a less "name-brand" school, you can get experience to become competitive without sacrificing the other things that are on your wishlist.
shadowjack
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by shadowjack »

@PG by a middle school I don't mean "middle school" grades 6 to 8 - I mean a school in the 'middle' of the pack. Not as dreckful as the one they are at now, but not the tier one rainbow they want to get to.

Clarification over :-)
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@SJ

That clarification does make the difference.
Illiane_Blues

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by Illiane_Blues »

Agree with the suggestion to go to a city with lots of ISs, so you don't necessarily have to end up at the same school, cause it might be hard to find the few schools that can use you both.
In addition to the already mentioned Bangkok & Singapore, try Ho Chi Minh City, Tokyo+Yokohama, Hong Kong, Beijing, The Hague, Dubai, Manila, Lima, Shanghai, Kuala Lumpur or Seoul. All have multiple decent to good to excellent ISs, and not working at the same school might even also be a good thing.
Heliotrope
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Applying as an admin/teacher couple: How competitive are

Post by Heliotrope »

Illiane_Blues wrote:
> not working at the same school might even also be a good
> thing.

I've seen two or three teacher couples at my past schools who definitely would've been better off working at separate schools. But then again, I've seen it work plenty of times as well, even couples who worked in the same department, and one case where one of the was HoD for their department.
The reason I suggested the 'two schools in one city' is to increase the chances of both getting hired at decent schools though.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

Just about every capital city in a reasonably sized region will have the highest concentration of ISs, and thus improve your recruiting opportunities and potential outcomes for appointments at differing ISs.
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