The International Schools Review Forum

Is it true by German law schools can not hire expats who are aged 50 and over?

That's not true.
Some German ISs list 65 as the age up till which they can employ you, some list 67, one lists 60.
You should be fine.

I have not seen anything about that. Of course, your citizenship might play a role (Americans, Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis, Japanese, South Koreans, and Israelis qualify as "best friend state citizens, for example, and have different rules than others). But I don't think that's a federal law. At least not that I have found. They can employ you up to 67 (and beyond if they want at the discretion of the employer), so I think up to 65 for hiring is correct.

No, you can be hired after 50, what might be confusing is that after 50 you would had retirement age before completing the number of years to retire at full benefits, but its not illegal to obtain or have a working visa for Germany after 50.

Psyguy,
What do you think would that mean if someone started to work in Germany at 50 then in terms of retirement? I believe retirement is aged 67? With 17 years put in would the pension be of any significance? My German friends tell me it's best not to rely on a full German teachers' pension anyway. :(

You wouldn't be getting a teacher's pension since you wouldn't be verbeamtet. You would probably only get a few hundred a month if you pay in for 17 years.

@TeacherGal

Its possible you could get a teachers pension, but you would have to be in the rare position of a civil service DT position in a German DS. Under the normal pension system I would concur with @Thames Pirate, straight government pension would be a few hundred, though you would likely also be eligible for more in the form of a minimum benefit and other types of social insurance (essentially welfare). You could and would also want to eventually move into a high tier (first/elite) tier IS that would provide a supplemental pension scheme. Germany isnt one of the more generous regions when it comes to minimum pension routes.

You CANNOT get civil service benefits at that age. You must already be verbeamtet by age 50 in every Bundesland and younger in virtually all of them (and it takes a few years to get it). Basically if you are teaching in a German public school in a state that offers the option and you are 35-40 or younger, you could do it (great benefits, but highly inflexible). Otherwise, sorry, you are doing the same thing every other IT is doing all over Europe--getting the regular pension for those privately employed.

Yes, you could potentially be eligible for some public assistance beyond the pension, but there are myriad factors involved here, so it's virtually impossible to say how much you would get. The long and short of it is that you would not retire well based only on your income for 17 years in Germany. Everything else is up to you and your employer.

@Thames Pirate

Yes you can, it use to be 50 when the retirement age was 65, now its 52 with the retirement age moving to 67.

Nope, 50, and that is only in Hessen--it's lower everywhere else. And that is when you can achieve it--again, it takes a few years of work to get it (and the requisite other qualifications working in a public school--and NOT as a foreign teacher or career entrant, but as a teacher whose qualifications have been recognised in that state (a process that, given German red tape, can be rather tricky and lengthy).

PsyGuy, do you even know where to look? Would you even know what to google if I hadn't dropped a German search term in there for you (and would you post your sources)? Or are you just making this up? I suspect the latter.

Anyway, the point is that the OP is no longer eligible at 50 to become a Beamter. So that leaves you with the regular pension. There are some handy calculators out there that can give you an estimate, though of course lots could change. And of course your personal situation matters.

@Thames Pirate

No, 52, and I know that because I know where to look. So its possible to start at 50, and have it by 52. It would be tight, and while the bureaucracy isnt easy, its not something that can be accomplished in the time frame, its not impossible, despite what your experience is. its not tricky having your qualifications assessed and admitted, it might have been for you, but thats not my experience.

Sources please.
I'm inclined to believe @Thames Pirate, as she can read German, but perhaps @PsyGuy can post a link to a source that will prove he's right.

https://www.juraforum.de/ratgeber/beamt ... instellung

Has links to the respective laws for each state and is from 2018.

Here a news article about the lowering of the age in Berlin even as the retirement age is going up.

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/berl ... 40186.html

There are myriad more links, but these are the biggies.

Shall we add "German public school system" to the list of things PsyGuy claims to have done? Shall we ask him which state? Also, to get the credential recognised, most states still require a knowledge of German at C1 or C2 and a Masters. One of the reasons IS Düsseldorf ran into trouble was not doing this recognition but collecting the money.

@Thames Pirate

Good to see you and your research agrees with me, as you provided there are exceptionalism or special interest provisions that allow appointment post the age of 50, specifically when a shortage of professionals exist, as an example Hesse allows appointment up to the age of 60, and as provided in your own citation:

http://www.lexsoft.de/cgi-bin/lexsoft/j ... 6987935,12

So people at the age of 50 can't be conversational in German? Having a Masters in IE is something 'rare' for an IT to possess.

So YES, you CAN get into the civil service because I know what 'possible' means as I stated in my post:
"Its possible you could get a teachers pension, but you would have to be in the rare position of a civil service DT position in a German DS."
I didnt state is was probable and further clarified that it would be a "rare position".
Maybe you should understand what words mean before you use them. Of course thats not going to happen because of TPF.

I was talking about you ;)

Way to do your own research on this 52 number you made up. Finding a statement in my source that the law allows for exceptions in extreme circumstances does not change the baseline.

But sure, argue semantics. It really makes it look like you know your stuff . . . .

Also, what exactly is the TPF since you keep changing the definition on that as well? Also, why am I so honoured?