Feeling like I want to move my family back home

[chiliverde]

Thanks. Like I said, I’ll take it into account.

[Thames Pirate]

Have you considered international schools in CA or elsewhere in the US? Or IB or immersion schools? These might give you and the family a bit of an easier move from the world of international teaching and living abroad into domestic life (and make it easier to move back abroad if you decide you want to).

There will inevitably be repatriation issues, so make sure you look into those. Different challenges from being an expat. Nothing you can't handle, but be prepared for things like depression and feelings of isolation; they can surprise people on the returning end.

You will find something that works for your family. Ultimately you need not justify your choices or even be able to quantify or qualify them. Your choices need to work for you and nobody else.

Best of luck!

[chiliverde]

Always appreciate your take, Thames. Thank you.

[FV2020]

I’m sure that nothing compares to the feeling of being “home” and that is a strong pull. I’m on the opposite end of the situation (leaving the US) so I’ll share my two cents about what I won’t miss. Firstly, the pay may look reasonable on paper, but in reality it means keeping a very strict budget. Sometimes (but not all the time) that means going into debt just to cover the basics. We have a two teacher household with no kids. Along with that, the health care industry in the US is absurd. Be prepared to spend thousands of dollars for even minor health issues; that is with an HMO plan that costs $400/month per person. As for classroom management, the culture of schools varies widely. There are some nightmare situations and some very pleasant ones. You can always switch schools after one year if it’s a nightmare. If you haven’t had to do active shooter drills before, that will be a shock to the system. It still shocks me that I have to explain to kids what to do to have the best chance of not getting shot. The best advice I can give is to find a private school in an exurb where housing might be somewhat reasonable.

[Fstop]

To the OP: I'm in a very similar situation. I have been teaching internationally for 15 years (English Literature), 10 in IB. I now have a wife and 2 young children and have been feeling to pull to go back to the US. I'm originally from Sacramento, California, so would probably return there or close to there. I have had a look at pay scales and many districts will give up to 12 years of credit, and with a Master's, the salary looks to be okay. I have also looked at private schools, prep schools and international schools, but these seem to be difficult to get into. If you are teaching in an affluent area then classroom management isn't too bad - I did my student teaching in an affluent school and was mostly fine. I was also a cover teacher for a few years and saw the good and the bad. Management is definitely not the same as in international schools.

I'm also in Thailand but have worked all over, including Europe. My wife is Thai, which limits her employment prospects, at least until she gets an associate's degree.

Housing prices are not what they were a few years ago, but again it completely depends on where you live. Every so often I go and look at housing prices in areas where I'd like to work just to see what's available.

Health insurance is a big worry - I thought that school districts paid for part of it, and the teacher pays for part of it - am I wrong here?

I do worry about moving back and being broke. We figure if we save around $100k, that should be enough to start us up, so we have made a 4 year plan to do this.

The reasons for the move? Retirement pension and being close to family are two big ones. I also just love California. I grew up there and I want my kids to grow up there. It's a nice place to live. University possibilities are also much better than if we stayed in Thailand.

The cons? I do worry about school shootings. And like I mentioned, we both fear going broke the first year. But we are adamant that this is the best way forward for all of us in the end.

[chiliverde]

Hey Fstop,

That's actually quite eerie how similar our situations are. I'm from Ventura county, but have always preferred northern California, and that's also where my sisters are. I cannot disagree with some previous and prolific posters that, when crunching the numbers, California doesn't make much sense. But sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants, and I am realizing with young kids that we are entering a period of time with extended family that we can never get back. My reality differs slightly from yours in that I am not realistically saving at the moment (although once husband starts work of some kind we can), but even then I'm not sure I'm willing to wait it out another 4 years before moving back home. But who knows. Also, hubs is far from being 100% on board. It's very unclear what he could do, similar to your wife, and he is in a very saturated industry. And university prospects in the US as compared to the free education in France... doesn't bear thinking about for the moment

That is reassuring to hear your experience in the Sacramento area. I can't believed I have never visited Sac, but we will be road tripping around Tahoe this summer and will stop by for sure. It's nice to know that there are a variety of schools. I am also not as concerned about school shootings as you are, just on a statistical level. But the US is... crazy these days, to say the least. All of this is crazy. But it makes me reassured to know that there are others who have similar pulls of the heart. There's just something about that state.

If you're up for it, let's keep each other posted, at least in the DMs. I am trying to get a handle on the health insurance thing, since you're right that that is such a biggie. What I've read led me to the same conclusion as you - some by the district and some by the school, for the whole family. I'm sure there is a way, with Obamacare, to have our bases covered for our families, but it probably comes at a price.

Also, if you have any tips on beating this BKK heat, other than staying inside, I'd love to hear it.

Take care

[FV2020]

I'll add clarification for my insurance comment-- it looks alarmist reading it now. The school/district does usually pay a portion of the premium; my comment was more meant as an indictment of the system (even with a "good" plan, my out of pocket costs are high). Also, for families and spouses, be prepared to pay the monthly premium. Your employer will always offer the option to purchase a family policy through them, but I've never heard of a school/district paying the premiums for a spouse/kids (this may exist somewhere, I've just never heard of it). My monthly out of pocket costs have varied over the years based on district budget cuts and years where I opted for very poor coverage because it cost less and I'm generally healthy. Subsidized by my employer, I've paid about $150/mo. out of pocket for the premium for just myself. You may be able to simply Google and find a state health care benefit summary online. If it's not published online, you could email the district HR director and ask to see it.

Anyway, best of luck with your decision! There are challenges everywhere, and if you feel the pull to move back abroad, you always can!

[tommypizza]

I returned to the USA after a 10 years stint abroad. I felt like I got the 10 year pin and it was time to go home. Wrong move. I changed and everything that I expected to stay the same, changed too. I returned to a familiar city and to familiar public schools. Oh man. I lasted 2 years and I'm now out of schools. Surely depends on the public school you land in BUT it's nowhere near the international teaching culture. I miss the expat life...meeting interesting people...having interesting conversations about travel. No one wants to hear about your international travels back home. They might ask...but will listen for 2 seconds. I don't think I realized how impactful my decision to leave the USA would impact the rest of my life. It changed me and it's very difficult to go back.

[cms989]

I'm in a similar situation. You're not alone. I'm also married and returning to the U.S. after next year, for a number of reasons:

-Living on the fringes of society as an expat, not able to speak the language or participate fully in the community
-Entire life at the whim of admin, highly risky any time you change jobs and can't as easily change jobs locally. Personal life is closely tied into work. Don't really have control over whether your home is your home, up to admin to extend your contract.
-Not paying into social security, not able to contribute to IRA or 401(k), other tax and legal considerations
-Always living to some extent 'out of a suitcase,' not able to truly build a home living in one-bedroom furnished apartments
-Depending on where you relocate to and your job now, your experience abroad may not count for salary scale, putting you perpetually behind your peers
-Missing relatively clean air, water, etc., at least in most parts of the country
-Not able to start a side hustle as easily, take classes, generally access resources available in many American communities

In states with traditional salary scales, you can make $80k+ per year with some years of experience. Career teachers in these states are making over $100k on the tail end of their careers. This is publicly available information. And as you know, the big kicker - your spouse can work! Yes the ok salary with housing gives big savings potential to single teachers, but once you're married and if your spouse is not a teacher then there is a big opportunity cost as they stay at home.

In the U.S. it is incredibly easy to re-invent yourself, there are all sorts of programs for career changers in most in-demand fields. Most college educated people can find a $50k+ career right away or within 1-2 years of schooling, much of it online. Teaching, IT, business, healthcare, and so on.

I will say I am stressed about the requirements to transfer certificates etc, and finding a job, and generally being restricted in where I can live depending on those requirements (e.g. I don't want to do the edTPA even if I would be interested in living in NYC). For that reason I am also considering a career change myself outside of teaching. But the move back to the U.S. is sort of a no-brainer.

[PsyGuy]

DSs in CA will typically pay the premium for the LEAs/Districts lowest health plan for the employee only, or they can use that as a supplement towards a better individual plan or towards a family plan. The lowest priced health plan is usually either a bronze or a silver equivalent plan, and some of them have a platinum (above gold) plan available. This is just health care and doesnt include dental, vision, and various disability insurance options. Many districts also have health saving plan options available.

[wrldtrvlr123]

cms989 wrote:

> In states with traditional salary scales, you can make $80k+ per year with
> some years of experience. Career teachers in these states are making over
> $100k on the tail end of their careers. This is publicly available
> information. And as you know, the big kicker - your spouse can work! Yes
> the ok salary with housing gives big savings potential to single teachers,
> but once you're married and if your spouse is not a teacher then there is a
> big opportunity cost as they stay at home.
>
> In the U.S. it is incredibly easy to re-invent yourself, there are all
> sorts of programs for career changers in most in-demand fields. Most
> college educated people can find a $50k+ career right away or within 1-2
> years of schooling, much of it online. Teaching, IT, business, healthcare,
> and so on.
===============================
Wow, if it is that rosy/easy back in the US, why do people bother to go overseas in the first place?

[PsyGuy]

@WT123

You have to build a lot of years of experience plodding through a lot to build those years of experience that are 6 figures. USD$80K looks good on paper, but usually the cost of living make it average compared to the rest of the USA. So many DTs burn out in less than 5 years they cant fathom spending 15 (often closer to 20) years to get those salaries.

[Monkey]

I can't answer most of your questions, but I have successfully gotten years spent teaching internationally counted domestically. My state's Dept. of Ed has an experience verification form that I had my last principal fill out before I moved on from that school. So long as a school is regionally accredited (WASC, NEASC, etc.), my state will count it. Those years got added to my teaching license. I found the forms online. Maybe California will have something similar?

[Fstop]

^California definitely has something similar. Salary scale pages usually have a note at the bottom about crediting years of experience, and yes, it needs to be from an accredited school in order to count. Not sure about the forms; I figured if I just got letters of rec from the school before I left then that would be good enough. Best to contact the district to see what they need.

[chiliverde]

In any case it will be France (definitely Paris for us, with journalism) or California after next year. Hard to contemplate two more different scenarios, although alike in expense. I'll let you all know how it goes, if I remember.