Feeling like I want to move my family back home

chiliverde
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Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:45 am
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Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by chiliverde »

Admin, feel free to delete if this is not appropriate for this forum.

Well, after teaching in Europe for years, relocated to BKK this year, I'm feeling such a strong pull for home now that I have a young family. Trouble is, I have never taught there, and have an EU spouse in a difficult field. Job prospects are kind of bad for him wherever we are, so that's kind of a non-factor. I'm an elementary classroom teacher with two young kids.

Anyone else ever felt this way? If anyone can give me some insight on the reality of teaching in California, I'd welcome a chat in the DMs.

Thanks
mysharona
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:25 am

Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by mysharona »

Different circumstances but also feeling the pull, you are not alone.
DomeVet
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by DomeVet »

In what way do you feel a pull? What about returning to Europe instead of North America. If you're at a good school in Bangkok I would think your children would receive a great education and the cost of living would be inexpensive, you could have domestic help, etc. Lots of things to do?
Heliotrope
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by Heliotrope »

Many ITs go back home once they have children. At home there's more of a support system, and it's nice to be near family when you have kids so the kids can see their grandparents, and play with cousins. When you're an IT, friends with kids eventually move on, or you do, so the kids' friendships are less permanent.

We've never considered going back after having kids though. The international experience will be great for our kids, and we get to save more money for them, in addition to the great education they'll have, and the experiences they will have in the region.
We are thinking of eventually moving somewhere where home is only a short and cheap direct flight away, so there will be more visits from us to home, and vice versa –you can only do so much with Skype–, but we haven't decided anything yet, as we love where we live, and the school is great.

So yes, we feel it, but the pros still outweigh the cons for us at the moment, and we don't expect that to change.
chiliverde
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Location: Europe

Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by chiliverde »

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in so far. It helps to just hear from others and be able to talk things out.

Undoubtably, moving back home is a very emotional decision. I am lucky to have a more supportive than most family, who I know is really feeling the pull of us being far away, as am I. Siblings are younger and haven't started having children yet, but will in the future. I already see the benefits of living in Bangkok for my very active two year old, with the culture and all the things to do. But I keep thinking how that benefit would be matched and maybe exceeded by being so close to a loving family, and California absolutely has a wealth of things to do in its own right.

Another factor that complicates, but also compels this urge, is husband's job. While a very accomplished freelance journalist, I'll leave you all to guess how that career choice fares in the world at the moment. His only real chance to continue on that track would be to move back to Paris (he's French), a city that we both balk at (we've lived there before) and he repeatedly mentions how all his friends in journalism there are "miserable". He's at the point now of wanting to reinvent himself, which is not really a common or easy thing to do in France. Possible in BKK, but it still leaves the problem that we are far away from both families. Can he reinvent himself in the US? It wouldn't be an easy road, but people do it all the time. We are talking about him getting into community college teaching as a possibility. His English is excellent, albeit accented.

As for staying in Bangkok, or abroad, I'm at a good school but by no means a dream school. Great salary, health insurance, flights, community, but no pension or housing. Summer is only 5 weeks at my school, so not really long enough to spend quality time in both the U.S. and France. And this long distance travel with one young child is already killing me. I'm supporting our family comfortably, but we are not saving anything. Considering I have 2, soon to be 3 dependents, I think the only way for me to level up would be to move to a "hardship" situation like China or the Middle East, which we are not willing to do. I have been abroad for 15 years. I appreciate Bangkok for all it has to offer, but the thrill of the international life is what's gone for me. I miss California. I miss my family. I want to raise my kids in California. Husband is slowly warming to the idea, but still very unsure (the French, as we know, are prone to pessimistic ennui).

I'm curious to know if anyone has knowledge if my years of teaching abroad will be credited in the CA public school system. I read something that said they are desperate for qualified teachers (I also have a Masters) so I'm hopeful. I read so many headlines about public school teachers in the US that do make me fearful, so I'd love feedback on that too from anyone who's been in the trenches. But if I could land in a good district, if we could live out of the major urban centers, if I could earn a decent salary with a pension/healthcare for us all, maybe we could just make it work. Yearly summer trips to France. Family would be able to help shoulder some daycare costs in the early years, if needed. Like I say, I know I'm lucky.

Thanks all who have been listening and again, admin, I know this is the inverse of international teaching, so please delete if not appropriate.
SparkleMotion
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by SparkleMotion »

California is a big place with a wide array of economies. What area are you looking at?

It sounds like you have your mind made up. I’m really
concerned that you are going to be super broke. Do some research on median salaries in your target market and housing costs. I’ve never heard of a single-earner household with three dependents being supported on a teacher’s salary in the US. I also don’t see broke American teachers taking summer trips to France.

Housing in much of California is, as I’m sure you know, outrageous. American teacher salaries are pretty bad. The district will decide if your overseas years count, so it’s anyone’s guess what experience bracket you’ll be in. I’d pick a district or two and reach out to their recruiting office to get an accurate picture of what to expect salary-wise should you return. Are you licensed already in California? Sometimes the general rule is years of teaching after licensure.

Has your husband worked with the AP before? I taught in BKK / Northern Thailand with my ex (an American journalist) and the AP has a presence / office there. Maybe he can shift to working for them directly and transfer with them to California. Also, journalism is America is generally crap. I don’t think he’ll have to reinvent himself if he wants to keep writing. Lots of magazines and newspapers across California will be glad to have him. (The ex who was a journalist on the west coast before we left was honestly a terrible writer and never had an issue getting work or even winning awards for his garbage writing.)
shadowjack
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by shadowjack »

TeachNow - French teacher - now a teaching couple. Move where you want.
chiliverde
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Location: Europe

Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by chiliverde »

Very welcome advice, everyone. Thank you for weighing in.

At the moment we are looking at Sacramento (proximity to family, still low-ish housing prices, many community colleges) with SLO and Mendocino county as other possibilities.

Definitely would not be a situation of 3 dependents in CA, as husband would get a job, hopefully in teaching/journalism. Could be very rewarding in the long run, but not without risk at the beginning - i.e., the US in a nutshell. Rewarding meaning fulfilling work and being close to family, not particularly rewarding financially.

I wish he wanted to get into French teaching. I'll continue to nudge him in that direction. But we do feel in our gut like he would be more suited to working with adults, as far as classroom management is concerned.

Mind is not totally made up, but leaning more in that direction. My previous posts floated Mexico as an option, but husband's possibilities are less clear. And there are so few good schools there, and I'll have 3 dependents at time of applying.

Suppose I'll need to find a forum for teachers in CA to ask more specific questions there. That's a great suggestion to reach out to a district too to ask these questions - sounds very obvious, but I didn't think of it. That's where so many doubts stem from - I moved abroad right after graduating college, and 15 years later I have absolutely no idea of what to expect teaching in the public sector.

Husband has not worked with AP - I will ask him to reach out to them. We have at least one more year here, so a good chance to do some transitional work that could set us up better for a potential move.
Heliotrope
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by Heliotrope »

Even though it does sound like you've already decided, you could also consider French speaking countries (or regions of countries, like Quebec) in the event you do end up deciding against the move back, so you husband will have more job opportunities.
A lot of those countries are in Africa though, which some people with kids wouldn't like because medical care is generally not great, and the opportunities for employment for your husband there might not be as good as in the US.

You probably already considered it already, but I'd thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... l_language
teach321
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by teach321 »

My husband and I taught for many years in California (north of Sacramento) before moving to teach abroad. Are you certified to teach in California? CA has some of the strictest credentialing requirements. It's easy to move to another state if you have a CA credential, but not always easy to move to CA from other states. Pay in CA is dependent on the district and ranges from around 40K/year to 100K/year. Obviously, the 100K is usually after many years of service credit and is usually only found in districts with really high costs of living so that $ doesn't go very far. Health care costs have risen significantly since I first started teaching and that eats into your pay each month.

My husband and I were comfortable financially but each year we were getting more and more burnt out by the challenging behaviors of students in the classroom and the lack of support from administration. (And I had always wanted to teach abroad.) Class sizes are generally on the larger size (30ish in elementary and 35ish in secondary) and there is a huge emphasis on standardized testing. In general, the elementary teachers I knew were happier than the secondary teachers.

The teacher shortage is being felt more in districts with higher percentages of socioeconomically disadvantaged students than in the better districts. I worked in a "better" district and most of our new hires came from other districts nearby and we did not have a hard time filling positions. CA has a strong union and a great pension plan, but if you start now you'll have to work until you're 65 to collect full benefits. I started teaching fresh out of college so taking ten or so years out to teach around the world still leaves me with the option to return to teaching in CA and earning a pension later if I want (and with the number of jobs posted each year on edjoin I'm not worried about finding a place to work).

When you have young kids, sometimes being close to family outweighs the other benefits that might come from teaching abroad. My kids are older but I'm glad we were close to family when they were younger. I think teaching in CA is a lot better than other states in the US and I haven't ruled out going back some day. The main thing you'll need to figure out is whether you are certified to teach there and whether they'll count your years of teaching abroad for placement on the salary schedule. Check out ctc.ca.gov for credentialing requirements and edjoin.org for job postings.

Good luck with whatever choice you make!
chiliverde
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by chiliverde »

Africa is an absolute non starter for us just because of location, but thank you for thinking of it.

Mind is not made up for California, since even though it's an emotional pull, I know there are other things to consider, especially when you have kids.

@teach thank you so much for this really valuable and balanced input, as well as resources for me to check out. I have no illusions that salaries are not comparable to high salaries abroad, and that they won't go as far in the California economy, that even lower housing costs in CA are still CA housing costs, AND that I'll be starting from zero in terms of pension. But at least I'll have one, which is more than I have here. I am certified in the state of NJ. A quick spin through that website earlier left me with the impression that there is a transfer agreement, with some additional legwork, and that it's possible. I have also started researching healthcare and my understanding is a public school teacher is provided healthcare for herself and her family, with some out of pocket expenses. Perhaps that amount is higher than I thought, though.

Another question regarding husband and French teacher, who has Masters in Business Administration (long ago, never did anything with it) and Journalism. Presumably even after TeachNow, schools would have an issue that he hasn't studied any French pedagogy at any point?
teach321
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by teach321 »

I know that if you already have a credential and add on an authorization through taking the CSET you have to take a subject area pedagogy class. Not sure how that applies to your husaband’s situation though.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

Are you currently pregnant, how much of this is maternity hormones? Youve been in IE for a long time, 15 years is no small a career in IE, and you want to go back now all of a sudden, it seems as you say in your own words to be an "emotional" decision.

Getting right to the pragmatics of your inquiries:

1) Do you know someone in CA with a district in one of these affluent areas who can and will hire you? Yes, CA is in desperate need of some kinds of ITs, maths, science, ICT, ESOL, SPED/SEN/LD, but the UC system pumps out hundreds of elementary DTs every year, their is no staffing shortage or need for primary DTs, so a job at one of the more affluent DSs is going to essentially require you knowing someone who can make that happen.

2) Do you know how to manage a classroom in a US CA public/maintained elementary DS. Do you know the rules of curriculum and standards, the assessment scheme, the SPED/SEN/LD rules and documenting requirements as well as those for ESOL students. As you stated you never did your time or made your bones in DE, you went write from Uni into what is essentially private/independent IE. Do you know how to deal with and mange a year 5 student who cusses profanity at you and tells you to F up, your not his mom? What do you know ho to do?

3) Can you afford it, you want your kids to go to a good DS presumably this affluent DS your going to get a job at or at least in the same district, can you afford to live in the district area that would allow your children to attend that DS, or are you going to pay to educate them all in private/independent DSs, there are DSs in CA that pay very well, but the DTs at those DSs care rarely afford to live int he same district neighborhood.
Can you even afford to live in CA, your in Thailand much lower cost of living, and CA with a house or apartment/flat and a car (maybe 2 cars) and paying the utilities and keeping the kitchen full is not going to be cheap, I dont know a DT in CA that can support a family of 5 on one salary.

4) How is your spouse going to do this community college thing? Does he know someone or do you know someone thats going to give him a job at a community college, because there are a lot of newly minted doctorates ho are struggling to get a FTE adjunct schedule together at 2 year and community colleges, and there are a lot of people in journalism who would love the same opportunity to teach, its a saturated market with a lot of competition. Unless your spouse in Anderson Cooper or someone of the same caliber and reputation your going to need someone on the inside.
I also think your spouse needs to look at community college and junior college master schedules, very few of them offer any journalism courses, and if they do its usually a single elective, and your spouse would have to make a schedule of teaching other courses in the literature and language arts or communication departments to make it an FTE position.
I get the impression your spouse if depressed at where his career has gone, but he has far better options in Thailand to make something work than he is moving to CA if he ants to do anything in journalism. He can be miserable being a journalist in France or he can just be miserable. The other option is he starts looking less at what he wants to do and more at what he can do, in which case I strongly agree with @SJ, get a credential and teach french or teach literature and journalism, is a far more feasible option than moving to CA and trying to teach community or junior college.

5) CA isnt as difficult as it once use to be, they removed the advance PD requirement. What you want to avoid is getting the preliminary credential at all costs, to begin with you will have to add an ESOL endorsement to your NJ standard credential so that you can b=meet the ELL authorization requirement. You will then need to take the PRAXIS core tests to meet the basic skills requirement. Then its just a matter of getting the experience verification letters and you would qualify for the CA CLEAR credential.

6) No CA DSs will generally not give you credit for IE experience typically its got to be from a CA DS either independent/private or public/maintained or its got to be in a maintained/public DS outside of CA. Even if you find a DS that ill give you some credit they have caps, they wont start you at step 15. You wouldnt want them too either, as that makes you a very expensive hire for an elementary/primary DT, you would be pricing yourself out of the job market. You would be better off looking at private independent ISs in CA near the locations you want to live. They pay less than public/maintained DSs but youll get tuition/place waivers for your kids regardless of where you live, allowing you to live in less expensive housing.

7) Generally ISs dont have questions about pedagogy in terms of origin, but whether you can talk about it intelligently. Another option for your spouse based on his background once credentialed is the network of Lycee and FSs (French Schools) usually the greatest hurdle for ITs at these FSs is fluent native french language proficiency, but with a background in journalism and business and having a credential, hes a reasonable applicant for business and economics vacancies, there is an FS in Bangkok and one in Pattaya.
chiliverde
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Re: Feeling like I want to move my family back home

Post by chiliverde »

Thanks Psy, I'll take what you said into account, leaving the insinuation of raging hormones out of it. I live abroad, teach, support my family, and generally kick ass, so I do in fact have my feet on the ground and my head screwed on straight.

I consider myself to have A+ classroom management skills, that said, I take what you are saying about the challenges facing US teachers in many districts, that I have yet to experience.

The Aspire group of charter schools have caught my eye for being in line with my philosophy, and generally well reviewed as a satisfying place to work which challenges the status quo.

I'll keep looking and gathering information. Thank you so much to all who have weighed in - it's been very helpful so far, from a group of people who I know walk a similar path.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@chiliverde

"so I do in fact have my feet on the ground and my head screwed on straight" - Everyone says this.

"I consider myself to have A+ classroom management skills" - Do you know anyone who says they dont?

Don’t under estimate the power of hormones, everyone believes the executive center of their brain (the cerebral cortex) can ‘out think’ their bio chemistry, a lot of those people are wrong.

Have a year 5 student cuss you out for using profanity than walk out of your classroom and get a 10 gauge shotgun and then come back into your class, that morning. At lunch you find out your year 4 student is pregnant by her 30 year old boyfriend who is an "actor" and she cant wait to move out of her parents house. At the end of the day, have a parent teacher conference and have the parents call you stupid and an idiot, and then threaten to file suite against you and the school district (and they brought their lawyer) and then start a petition on social media to get you fired because you didnt motivate their child enough. Manage that and on top of that an under employed husband and three of your on kids. Theres a reason why I really didnt start drinking until I got into education, mainly because dealing with my problems was never an issue, but dealing with a couple hundred children who shouldnt really have adult level problems yet and being relatively powerless to do anything about it was very grinding. You dont have those issues in IE.

Aspire sounds great, actually they are pretty great, now you just need them to give you a contract that includes attendance of your own kids. Otherwise a lot of this is just pixie dust wishes and rainbow dreams for someone whose feeling home sick.
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