Can it actually harm your future job prospects if you work at a school that is known to have a negative school culture?
While it is preferable to to stay at a school and contribute for longer than one's initial contract, can staying longer at a school like this be detrimental to your job search 5-10 years down the road?
Schools with negative cultures
Response
Yes, but not as bad as you would think, but it depends on how you improve and develop your practice in that time. You want to be able to show that despite the toxic culture you still were able to achieve X goals (a portfolio wouldnt hurt), but being able to talk intelligently about it without bashing the IS during an interview is what is going to be critical.
As long as you complete contract youre fine with a positive reference your fine, thats a lot of bunk. Mostly from lower tier ISs that want to mitigate their rate of attrition and maturation that claim you have to put 3 or more years, and that doing shows youre something other than being a masochist and a gluten for pain and suffering or that doing so will "buy" you a better reference. Its mostly fear mongering. The only caveat to that is when your at a high tier IS and your looking after your first contract, the issue becomes why would you leave if youre happy and not having a good answer to that question that isnt chasing the golden apple can be a negative, because then the recruiter is thinking "if X didnt make them happy, how is my IS going to change that".
When your at a bottom tier toxic IS having the intelligence to recognize it and move out of that situation is commendable. Smart people change their mind when the data changes. Suffering because some recruiter or leadership is better at deception than you as an IT are at recognizing it isnt something to brag about, regardless of the "word is your bond" mantra.
After 5 years and absolutely 10 years nothing you did that far back matters as long as you have more recent experience thats positive to bury what ever the train wreck was under it.
As long as you complete contract youre fine with a positive reference your fine, thats a lot of bunk. Mostly from lower tier ISs that want to mitigate their rate of attrition and maturation that claim you have to put 3 or more years, and that doing shows youre something other than being a masochist and a gluten for pain and suffering or that doing so will "buy" you a better reference. Its mostly fear mongering. The only caveat to that is when your at a high tier IS and your looking after your first contract, the issue becomes why would you leave if youre happy and not having a good answer to that question that isnt chasing the golden apple can be a negative, because then the recruiter is thinking "if X didnt make them happy, how is my IS going to change that".
When your at a bottom tier toxic IS having the intelligence to recognize it and move out of that situation is commendable. Smart people change their mind when the data changes. Suffering because some recruiter or leadership is better at deception than you as an IT are at recognizing it isnt something to brag about, regardless of the "word is your bond" mantra.
After 5 years and absolutely 10 years nothing you did that far back matters as long as you have more recent experience thats positive to bury what ever the train wreck was under it.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Schools with negative cultures
A recruiter will understand that you had to start somewhere, and that you didn't deliberately chose a toxic school. Of course, they might think you should have done more research, but with a first school, many are just happy enough to be offered a job.
I don't think they will care much whether you worked there for 2 years, or the initial two plus an extra year past your first contract. You haven't broke contract, so you're fine. Recruiters do actually care about you keep your word, even if the school is perceived as toxic. However, don't bet on a recruiter knowing everything about all ISs, so if a school is indeed toxic, they might just have to take your word for it (and they might not, as you have a motive to exaggerate).
You can use your school's toxicity to explain why you're looking for a new job. Just be sure not to talk too negatively about the school in an obvious way, or pair a point of criticism with a compliment.
Only criticising a school (or a person) always reflects badly on yourself, because for some reason (ask a psychologist, I'm just citing the conclusions of some studies) the aspects you criticize are then identified as part of yourself, if you're only being negative. Just word your criticism as points where improvements could be made, or where they could do even better, and that you're looking for a school that is a bit further in its development towards excellence (but don't say 'development towards excellence', it sounds douchy).
I once mentioned as my reason to apply at a certain school that I prefer to be part of a team where teachers inspire, and reflect upon & enrich each other's teaching methods, instead of my then current department where the teachers are mostly insular entities, followed by saying how great these teachers were individually, which made it even sadder that there was little to no interchange of ideas, despite efforts on my behalf. And I then mentioned the one colleague I did have the desired dynamic with, and how valuable that has proven for development, saying that I'm looking for a department where this is the rule, and not the exception.
I said this knowing that the department at the school I was interviewing with has a dynamic similar to what I was describing.
Their response was extremely positive, saying that I would be a perfect fit if this was something I felt strongly about.
I would never stay a year past my initial contract at a toxic school just because it might increase my chances slightly (and it might not actually). A year of your life is still a big deal, so don't waste it at a school where you don't want to be.
I don't think they will care much whether you worked there for 2 years, or the initial two plus an extra year past your first contract. You haven't broke contract, so you're fine. Recruiters do actually care about you keep your word, even if the school is perceived as toxic. However, don't bet on a recruiter knowing everything about all ISs, so if a school is indeed toxic, they might just have to take your word for it (and they might not, as you have a motive to exaggerate).
You can use your school's toxicity to explain why you're looking for a new job. Just be sure not to talk too negatively about the school in an obvious way, or pair a point of criticism with a compliment.
Only criticising a school (or a person) always reflects badly on yourself, because for some reason (ask a psychologist, I'm just citing the conclusions of some studies) the aspects you criticize are then identified as part of yourself, if you're only being negative. Just word your criticism as points where improvements could be made, or where they could do even better, and that you're looking for a school that is a bit further in its development towards excellence (but don't say 'development towards excellence', it sounds douchy).
I once mentioned as my reason to apply at a certain school that I prefer to be part of a team where teachers inspire, and reflect upon & enrich each other's teaching methods, instead of my then current department where the teachers are mostly insular entities, followed by saying how great these teachers were individually, which made it even sadder that there was little to no interchange of ideas, despite efforts on my behalf. And I then mentioned the one colleague I did have the desired dynamic with, and how valuable that has proven for development, saying that I'm looking for a department where this is the rule, and not the exception.
I said this knowing that the department at the school I was interviewing with has a dynamic similar to what I was describing.
Their response was extremely positive, saying that I would be a perfect fit if this was something I felt strongly about.
I would never stay a year past my initial contract at a toxic school just because it might increase my chances slightly (and it might not actually). A year of your life is still a big deal, so don't waste it at a school where you don't want to be.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1151
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Schools with negative cultures
No, and often the opposite. The schools with the good reputations are generally the older schools--part of the good old boys' club of days of yore. However, in many places these schools have become complacent, entrenched, etc. People don't leave because of the golden handcuffs of a good package and do the minimum. Sometimes they are openly hostile to staff coming in with fresh ideas and energy, as these are a threat to the opportunity to do as little as possible and look good doing it. However, because the school is considered a good or reputable school, it can look good on a resume.
One of the pitfalls of the whole mindset of tiers and perhaps an argument for assigning tiers based on money/package.
One of the pitfalls of the whole mindset of tiers and perhaps an argument for assigning tiers based on money/package.
Re: Schools with negative cultures
As a recruiter, no, it won't matter.
And absolutely never badmouth your old school at interview. You can identify what you are hoping to find in a new school, but skip the part where you trash your current school for not having it.
And absolutely never badmouth your old school at interview. You can identify what you are hoping to find in a new school, but skip the part where you trash your current school for not having it.
Re: Schools with negative cultures
Thank you for your responses as I appreciate hearing these perspectives. All of us have different circumstances for wanting to stay put for longer than the 2 year initial contract, depending on our personal situation etc.
While the school culture is quite negative, I stay out of the griping sessions of teachers etc. so in many ways it does not impact me directly on a day to day basis. However, when it comes down to it, my understanding is that the vast majority of the teachers are not incredibly happy due to a variety of reasons.
I would definitely never say a bad word about a school at a future job interview. In many ways I like challenging situations and can survive, however I am wondering if I will thrive. And that is the debatable piece!
While the school culture is quite negative, I stay out of the griping sessions of teachers etc. so in many ways it does not impact me directly on a day to day basis. However, when it comes down to it, my understanding is that the vast majority of the teachers are not incredibly happy due to a variety of reasons.
I would definitely never say a bad word about a school at a future job interview. In many ways I like challenging situations and can survive, however I am wondering if I will thrive. And that is the debatable piece!