Small school v/s big school

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zenteach
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Small school v/s big school

Post by zenteach »

In terms of K-12 schools do you prefer a smaller school (300-2000 students) or larger school (2000-5000 students)?

What are your reasons for preferring one over the other?
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

2000 is still a small IS?

I prefer a small IS simply as it reduces the amount of bureaucracy. Id rather have an HOD and a principal rather than a cluster leader, a class leader, a subject coordinator, an HOD, a division coordinator, an assistant principal, an associate principal, a vice principal, a deputy principal, a senior principal, and an HOS. That and any one of a number other people whose job seems to be to generate emails.

I will say though that the trade off of a large IS is that if you keep your head down, your mouth closed, and do your job without complaints, you can go a really long time without any stresses. About a couple months ago there was a primary FL IT who had no students who had been assigned years ago to team/co teach and the original TOR moved and the new IT didnt know about the CO-IT who basically had been doing nothing for years but showing up and leaving everyday.
Heliotrope
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Re: Response

Post by Heliotrope »

Indeed, 2,000 is not small at all.

I agree with @PsyGuy about the bureaucracy and number of emails being much more of a problem at smaller school.

For being member of a department (which is what I look at more than the size of the school, although obviously the two are related), I prefer a midsize school. I prefer to have more than 2 or 3 colleagues in my department, but more than 10 would be too many. I'd say 6-7 is a good number, but it depends on other factors as well.

But I'd rather work for a school that's either too big or too small but which has both a great HOS and an inspiring HOD, than a perfect-sized one that has just one or neither.

It also depends a little bit on the city I'm in.
In a not-so-interesting city with few other expats, being at a small school means your social circle will consist of a selection of the few colleagues you have.
I'd rather have more people to choose from, both at my school and outside of it, as I like to have a healthy amount of non-teachers in the mix. But I have only ever once been at a small'ish school in a city that was getting kind of boring after the first year, but luckily my colleagues were all great so I was lucky.
wrldtrvlr123
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Location: Japan

Re: Small school v/s big school

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

zenteach wrote:
> In terms of K-12 schools do you prefer a smaller school (300-2000 students)
> or larger school (2000-5000 students)?
>
> What are your reasons for preferring one over the other?
============
I agree that your ranges are not particularly useful for this discussion. You're lumping any number of smaller schools of varying qualify with some of the larger/better schools (ISBeijing, ASIJ are both in the 1500-2000 range). Once you are over 2000+ students what schools/kind of schools are you thinking about? Would they be "one school" but spread out over a number of campuses/divisions?

I've only taught at smaller int'l schools but taught at a 2000+ middle school in the states. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Smaller schools you generally get (almost have to get) to know everyone, especially in your division. The bad part is there may be people you really dislike but have no choice but to interact significantly with on a daily basis. This is true in many schools if they are in your dept./teach next door but in a smaller school you may be more likely to also have to ride the teacher van everyday together, live above them, etc.

In my large school in the states there were almost 100 teachers and you really only got to know people in your dept., lunch hour, etc. There was room to find your own space, your own people and fly under the radar is you so chose. Still, it was difficult to really get a handle on what was going on, or the school as a whole at times.

In general, I guess I prefer a somewhat smaller school. I think faculty size and number of divisions can be good indicator of how you might fit into the scheme of things. I'm currently in a HS only school with around 30 teachers and it's a reasonable balance of small enough to know everyone and what is happening with the school but big enough to find your own place and people.

I also think that quality of school/students is a much more significant factor then size of school.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

A small IS would be about 200 or less, a medium IS would be about 200-1000 and a large IS would be more than 1000. This is for individual campuses not the entirety of a chain IS, etc.
Thames Pirate
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Re: Small school v/s big school

Post by Thames Pirate »

There is a world of difference between 200, where you basically have one section per grade level, and 900, where you have three or four. With 900, you have the critical mass to divide the maths class by ability, for example. With 200, it becomes logistically more difficult. The same is true for languages--you have a teacher teaching "host country language fluent speakers" and "host country language learners" in mixed ability groups (native vs. fluent, beginners vs. intermediate) in classes of 7, for example--assuming the school can afford to support that type of staffing ratio. You also don't have the option to separate or combine kids based on behaviour, for example. There are lots of friendships and interactions among kids of wildly disparate ages at a small school. Romances are a big issue as they can divide up a small circle of friends for a time. Very different atmosphere from a group of about 700, where the kids can stay out of each others' way, there is generally a clear delineation between primary and secondary sections, etc.

Thus I would even say a small school is actually one under about 350 (K-12) as this is where you start to get two sections per grade, a medium school is up to maybe 1000, and a large school is bigger than that.
sid
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Re: Small school v/s big school

Post by sid »

Swings and roundabouts.
Small is nimble and responsive - we may not have specific resources / experts for "x", but if we need to do "x", we can give it a go. Commitment and caring go a long way in a small school. In a larger school, you can be stopped from doing good things because the system doesn't allow for it, or takes way too long to respond.
Big means options. We do have lots of resources and expertise, and with multiple classes and more teachers, kids can get their needs met.
Small often means tight-knit, for faculty and for students. Kids are often more inclusive and understanding of each other, because there's no room for cliques. We're all we've got, oddballs and all (said with love - oddballs make the world go round). Big schools produce more cliques, more bullying. They also have other kids who are oddballs in the same way, so everyone potentially has a friend who is "like me". Unfortunately, you and your oddball friend are also likely bullied or ostracized, so hard to say if it's better.
Small means we all wear lots of hats. If graduation needs to be organized, or a yearbook assembled, or a curriculum reviewed, most of us are going to be involved, whether that's our thing or not. So we all learn a bunch of different things, but without an expert, are we really sure it's the best quality? Big schools - whatever it is, it's someone's job. I can stay in my comfort zone. But am I learning? Stretching myself? And without more involvement, where are the new and interesting ideas coming from? Before you know it, we're just entrenched, doing the same thing over and over again.

I've worked in both. I like both.
zenteach
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Re: Small school v/s big school

Post by zenteach »

PsyGuy, thanks for clearly differentiating small, medium and large size international schools, very helpful to have more realistic numbers!

Yes, 2000 is quite large, I was somewhat randomly throwing numbers out there, and they were not super accurate. I appreciate hearing the different points of views.

As I've worked in all three ranges of schools, I am trying the currently examine where I thrive and am the most effective.
mysharona
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Re: Small school v/s big school

Post by mysharona »

Just a sample of my experiences at a small school with a student population of 167
*more family friendly
*great students
*greater sense of camaraderie among staff
*more opportunities to impact school policies
*could be big fish in small pond when I wanted to be
*fewer resources (both physical and PD)
*fewer choices for my own kids
*only MS science teacher
*compensation was not adequate

A sample of my experiences at a big school with a student population greater than 1800
*unlimited classroom budget (literally wish and it is mine kind of situation)
*great students
*multiple department colleagues to share triumphs and defeats with
*bureaucracy up the ying yang, if there isn't a form for it then we need to create one
*compensation and benefits are excellent
*staff I don't recognize even after 4+ years of working at the school
*change is slow in coming, yet
*always the need to keep up with the latest and greatest

I have enjoyed my experiences at both.
IE_sciteacher
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Re: Small school v/s big school

Post by IE_sciteacher »

I think the bigger piece is leadership and leadership's comfort of the school size.

If you have leadership who understand how a small school functions it will be great. If you get leadership with experience at larger schools and do not understand smaller schools there will be challenges. The inverse I find true as well.

Currently, I am at a ~750 student school and there is less of a community feel than I had at a ~1800 student school. Leadership and culture of the school played a big part in it, we do not have a staff room at the current school while we did at the big school.
twoteachers
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Re: Small school v/s big school

Post by twoteachers »

For me since I have kids....they play a big role for now in what's the best fit. Bigger schools were better for them so they have more activity choice, class choice, and wider variety of kids in general. I'm sure this may change when they've flown the coop and my hubby and I are on our own.
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