What is the qualified pay scale?

shahabh
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 am

What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by shahabh »

Hello,

I started working as a teacher in China for Dipont education in China and they hired me on the 'unqualified pay scale' and they say that I should do a PGCE with University of Sunderland and they will retrospectively give me the money back over a period of three years. I don't know how long I want to stay with them. I have currently signed my contract for next year with some increments according to my experience but I still have not done the PGCE that they recommend. Upon further research I found out that there are alternative routes thanks to ISR.

1) I am wondering if the 'qualified pay scale' that they talk about is for a PGCE specifically or other things like a level 1 license such as the Utah or Massachusetts (that you've often talked about in these forums) would work as well...

2) Also they say that the increments take place from August 20... Do you think I would be able to achieve the license before then? and what would you suggest I should do? If all of a sudden I tell them that I can get a teaching license by August 20, they will probably know that it was done through alternative route... and they may or may not accept it?

Can you please tell me what I should do in this case...

BTW I am Canadian and going to the US shouldn't be an issue for me over the summer in July.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

The qualified pay scale is for ITs who have professional edu credentials issued by a regulating authority. A state credential in the US, QTS in England and registration in AUS/CAN and the rest of the UK. The DO NOT include IB T&L certificates, ASTI certificates, PTC certificates or any type of ESOL certificate including a CELTA or DELTA (however some of these certificates may be accepted in certain circumstances depending on individual ISs).

Well this is Dipont, so who really knows, but if the credential licenses you to provide instructional services in the regulated (maintained/public) DSs by the DE regulating authority that thats qualified. Based on that the MA Provisional credential would satisfy that requirement (you are not able to obtain the UT credential as a foreigner). Will Dipont accept it, its the same grade of credential (entry grade) as a NQT would have. Would you have the same academic preparation of an NQT, no. You really need to ask HR at your IS (by email), as there answer is the only one that matters. The MA pathway is faster, cheaper and less work, and it qualifies you as a professional edu. The hire US credentialed ITs without PGCEs (US state credentials) all the time.

You could be done with the MA credential in a month. Depends how fast you organize all the application materials, get the NACES evaluations and complete the exams.

I dont see why you couldnt be done by August 20th, you wont have a PGCE done by then this is April. I doubt you could even have AO for QTS done by then (unless you knew people).

Yes they will likely conclude you did a assessment based route. You can not use the MA provisional credential to obtain QTS.

What you should do is have this conversation with your ISs HR or executive leadership.

Are you sure they said PGCE? Sunderland only has one distance learning (a program you could do in China while still working) PGCE and its the PGCE (IDL) and its essentially a PGCEi by another name, it doesnt qualify you for QTS, and doesnt include a professional edu credential. Whereas the MA provisional credential is actually a credential. If thats their standard to get on the qualified salary scale, Id ask what else qualifies because while a PGCEi is a working qualification in a significant number of third tier ISs (especially in Asia), its not a credential that licenses you to do anything. Ask if they would accept an ACSI certificate, you could get a temporary certificate from them for an application fee and a couple weeks processing time.
shahabh
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 am

Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by shahabh »

Thank you very much for your reply, I really appreciate it.

It is good to know that this credential will be similar to NQT.

I will email HR and ask them about this... also, ASCI is association of christian schools?
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@shahabh

ASCI = Association of Christian Schools International
https://www.acsi.org/certificationdocuments

The 2 year temporary certificate requires basically a first/bachelors degree and a pulse. Its usually when a trailing spouse gets on site and they need a spouse to teach elementary or ESOL, etc. and they just dont have the time to get an assessment based credential. This process requires a USD$75 fee and an application, you upload your degree transcripts and wait a couple weeks. For desperate ISs something is better than nothing and your ISs bar isnt set very high.
shahabh
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 am

Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by shahabh »

Again, thanks for the prompt reply.

My wife is actually living with me in China, she is here on a spousal visa so won't be able to teach. Also, where and which school districts does ACSI allow me to teach throughout the world including US/CA/UK... I feel like I should sell it to them? They would probably be more impressed if I'd tell them i can use this in one of the Native english speaking countries...?
shahabh
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 am

Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by shahabh »

I have sent an email to them and I am waiting for the response now. I live in Xi'an China and will be going back to Canada in July. Could you please tell me the steps I need to take in order to pursue the MA credentials?
sid
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by sid »

Take care about going to the US to do coursework. As a Canadian, you’re right, getting into the US is easy. But if you want to take courses, you need a student visa. I’m not completely sure if that applies to Canadians, but please check. It certainly applies to lots of other countries whose citizens are generally allowed to travel freely in the US.
In working with one teacher from the UK, married to an American, we were trying to find out if a student visa was needed, since he obviously had more privileges than most in terms of hanging out stateside. The university and the embassy essentially had the same response: Sure, you can go to the US for that period without a student visa. You can even attend the classes. But if you want CREDIT for those classes, you have to have the visa.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

You are confusing 'MA' the degree of Master of Arts with 'MA' the state abbreviation for Massachusetts. In this context it is the latter not the former. The Massachusetts assessment based pathway has no coursework.

@shahabh

It depends on the teaching field you ant to pursue but most of the teaching areas would essentially require two assessment exams (the MTEL) one in communication literacy which is the meds/peds exam and a subject specific content exam.

The first step is to obtain an NACES evaluation of your CAN qualifications (your Uni transcript), once its confirmed that it is the equivalent of a US 4 year first/bachelors degree you can proceed.
Second you create an account on the MA ELAR portal.
Third, you then schedule the MTEL exams in communication literacy and your subject content area. This may require travel to the US, though you need not go to MA, the MTEL exams are available at a number of testing centers in the US.
Fourth, once you receive passing scores for those exams you arrange your application materials mainly your transcripts, identification and the NACES evaluation (these will require high quality scans in pdf). Your transcripts must bear the seal of the Uni officer completing the transcript.
Fifth, you complete the MA ELAR application for a provisional credential, and upload the scans and pay the application fee (USD$100).
Sixth, Wait. When the application is granted and the credential issued you will be able to login to ELAR and print a pdf of the provisional credential.
shahabh
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Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 am

Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by shahabh »

What about background check? This website
https://certificationmap.com/states/mas ... ation/#req

is saying that I need to get a background check done as well.... The official website doesn't say anything though i think
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@shahabh

Those rules are for childcare providers and facilities. DTs undergo a CRB as well, but its a name and identification search conducted by the DOE, if they require something specific they will notify you of what to provide. Usually US/UK/CAN/AUS are not a problem.
shahabh
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 am

Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by shahabh »

They are asking for me to give them website of the license issuing body or a example of a license. When I apply for the license online, when can I get a proper copy of the license? Maybe they don't just want an unofficial copy of the license for MA. What is the procedure for getting the hard copy?

Also, for the ACSI, how do i get the hard copy?

They said:
Hi Hassan,

Thanks for your email.
Could you please send me the website of authority or a sample of the teaching license?

Thanks,
Hassan
MartElla
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Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by MartElla »

The PGCE is the credential that they are talking about. It is what you need to teach in international schools. The QTS means Qualified Teacher Status and means you can teach in English state schools. It's not needed for teaching internationally in most places, nor is it needed to teach in many schools in the UK! If you wish to teach in England or Wales at any stage then it's vital, but it's the certification itself that is needed abroad. It's not available however unless in the UK, so therefore the PGCEi is the best option.

If you do subsequently need QTS, then you can go down the AO option. I've not once been asked about my QTS details, however, and this is my sixth international school. A bit annoying as I felt that I sweated blood and tears to get it! However, get a PGCEi and it will not be the same as a PGCE with work-based experience, but it'll be enough for many schools and countries around the world. There are teachers at Tier 1 schools with distance-based PGCEi's so, while not the ideal route, it need not necessarily hold you back.

Further details -
https://www.tes.com/institute/blog/whic ... ernational
shahabh
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 am

Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by shahabh »

@psyguy

My holidays start from July 9 and I need to get a credential, (and probably get them authenticated, school hasn't said anything about that yet) by August 18 for any increment to take place. I have looked at tests for MTEL around China but there is nothing. The earliest test I can get is July 17 in Ohio. I think I probably would also need to get a Hard copy of the document and get it authenticated and stuff... It looks like I might be short on time.

Are there any other ways for me to get a certificate, as temporary as it needs to be so that I can do a praxis exam instead which I can get done sooner? But then I might also have to partake a background check which would take time too...?

Im really confused. please help.
shahabh
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:52 am

Re: What is the qualified pay scale?

Post by shahabh »

@ psyguy


I have a Canadian degree... is that going to work for ACSI? Also, I'm not Christian, is that going to be a problem?

P.S. They agreed that both of these certificates will be accepted! Thank you so much for the information you have provided me
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@shahabh

Seriously they will accept an ACSI certificate, wow, thats just wow.

When you complete the requirements and they issue the credential they will email you a PDF of the certificate and then you print it out. They will for an extra fee, notarize it for you and send you a copy by post.

There wont be any locally available MTEL exam sites, you will have to travel from CAN (when you return) to a US state that has them, many of the testing centers around the US have them (you do not have to take it in MA).

Not that are available to you, Utah isnt an option for non-US Citizens. If you had a US credential already that HI would be a faster option, but thats not relevant in this case.

A CAN degree should be okay for ACSI as long as its in English, they may require an NACES evaluation that will take a month but you can start it now and it will be done well before July.

Being Christian isnt a problem, as long as its not a problem for you. The temporary certificate is only valid for 2 years and renewing it is going to require PD and Christian studies is going to be a part of your PD renewal requirements so if youre okay sitting through online seminars on the topic than that is fine.

WOW they accepted ACSI, just wow...

@MartElla

That is absolutely and completely wrong. A PGCE is not a credential it is an academic qualification. QTS is the professional educator credential for England. No one asks for it in your history because its just assumed QTS (NQT) was part of your PGCE (though there is a very uncommon option of just doing an academic PGCE, without QTS) its assumed if you did a PGCE in England you got QTS. There are a lot of routes to getting QTS and many BS ISs want the academic pathway that a PGCE provides.

For that matter a PGCE isnt needed to teach in IE either, its nothing more than a certificate indicating completion of half a Masters worth of academic study. It authorizes the holder do do absolutely nothing.
This is where, the PGCEi and the PGCE differ they may cover the same academic studies but your not getting QTS with the PGCEi and thats an important distinction and why those with PGCEis do not have access to the same opportunities as those with a PGCE and QTS do.
A PGCEi is a perfectly acceptable working qualification for many ISs, but as you move into higher tiers while there are exceptions those with QTS are going to be at a definite advantage.

They dont need to ask for your QTS details an IS can simply check with the TCL/TRA once they are comfortable with your PGCE.
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