Tried this question in the members forum, but thought I'd give it a go here as well:
I recently got married and my spouse is willing to move abroad if I can find a teaching job which will support us both. I have ten years experience teaching internationally and have worked at some very reputable schools. (i.e. IASIS) We have no dependents. I'm concerned about my husband not working & both of us just depending on my salary
I was wondering if anyone else had a similar experience. If so,
1. As I have always recruited as a single before, will having a trailing spouse decrease my marketability? (I teach maths and science) If so - to what degree?
2. Are there countries where I could work where my spouse could obtain a work visa?
3. Does anyone know of schools where dependent spouses are included when considering housing allowances, home leave, health insurance etc?
4. Any ideas where we could live well and still save on a single salary?
5. How did going to only one person working affect your relationship?
6. What did the non-working spouse do all day if there were no children to care for?
Any information you can provide would be great! Thanks!
Trailing Spouse
Re: Trailing Spouse
In response to question number 1, YES. You are not in Kansas anymore girlfriend! All of a sudden "reputable" schools may no longer be interested in you because of your life choices. Dolphin tattoo on the back of your neck? No problem at Tier 1 school in Asia or Europe! Dress to impress and 20 years of experience in IB - but with one or more dependents? Fight to get a posting at a Tier 3 school in Africa. The only good news? You don't have kids yet! Each one is another nail in your coffin in international education recruitment. International schools are looking for cheap. Cheap of quality and cheap of no quality will do over expensive of any sort of quality.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Trailing Spouse
Hey Indogal,
I have many colleagues with trailing spouses. A trailing spouse with no kids isn't a huge issue at most schools. Your spouse won't be taking a classroom space the way a child might, which would be much more expensive for the school.
Work visas for your spouse will depend on a number of factors related to what he can do and what passport he holds. Without knowing what he'd look to do and what passport he has it's impossible to say.
Generally, trailing spouses increase the benefits that a school provides. This may include bigger housing (or allowance), flights from/to your home country for you both, health insurance, covering visa cost (generally not a visa that he can work on). Better schools will provide those to both of you, but some won't.
Better schools in East Asia and the Middle East, though in the ME there may be more issues with you sponsoring your husband on a dependent visa from what I've heard. Someone with real knowledge about this (ie, so someone other than PsyGuy) can weigh in.
Western Europe would be tough if he isn't working. South America may provide a good life style and you'd probably have a good quality of life there, but the take home isn't so good at the majority of schools in the region.
Some couples deal with it a lot better than others. A lot of the people I know in this situation end up doing supply/substitute teaching and/or coaching at the school. Some have found other jobs. Tutoring students can be lucrative if your spouse has backgrounds where he can tutor content subjects. Teaching English jobs are easy to find in much of East Asia.
I'd say your husband would want to have a plan of what he'd do. A lot will depend on the country/region. I find the couples in this situation either have plans to be overseas for limited periods, the spouse has a career that he can work any where (mostly online), or the husband is older and has already retired.
Good luck.
Eion
I have many colleagues with trailing spouses. A trailing spouse with no kids isn't a huge issue at most schools. Your spouse won't be taking a classroom space the way a child might, which would be much more expensive for the school.
Work visas for your spouse will depend on a number of factors related to what he can do and what passport he holds. Without knowing what he'd look to do and what passport he has it's impossible to say.
Generally, trailing spouses increase the benefits that a school provides. This may include bigger housing (or allowance), flights from/to your home country for you both, health insurance, covering visa cost (generally not a visa that he can work on). Better schools will provide those to both of you, but some won't.
Better schools in East Asia and the Middle East, though in the ME there may be more issues with you sponsoring your husband on a dependent visa from what I've heard. Someone with real knowledge about this (ie, so someone other than PsyGuy) can weigh in.
Western Europe would be tough if he isn't working. South America may provide a good life style and you'd probably have a good quality of life there, but the take home isn't so good at the majority of schools in the region.
Some couples deal with it a lot better than others. A lot of the people I know in this situation end up doing supply/substitute teaching and/or coaching at the school. Some have found other jobs. Tutoring students can be lucrative if your spouse has backgrounds where he can tutor content subjects. Teaching English jobs are easy to find in much of East Asia.
I'd say your husband would want to have a plan of what he'd do. A lot will depend on the country/region. I find the couples in this situation either have plans to be overseas for limited periods, the spouse has a career that he can work any where (mostly online), or the husband is older and has already retired.
Good luck.
Eion
Response
Yes, having a trailing spouse is going to negatively effect your marketability, you cost more now. At the top of the logistical hire factor scale you have:
1) Teaching Couples: The IS has some cost saving benefits, they fill two classrooms for less than the cost of to single ITs (mostly in housing costs) .
2) Single ITs: They break even, but singles tend to be less stable than couples, though when a teaching couple goes bad it tends to blow up.
3) Trailing Spouse: The IT costs more, but its not a huge pile of coin, its flights, a little more for housing and a little more for insurance.
4) Dependents: This varies but its the worse, each dependent child in addition to the other costs has much larger housing costs and tuition/fee places/waivers, which are an average value of 10K a piece, have a child too young for the IS and that means someone likely a parent is staying home meaning you have a lot more cost to fill one classroom.
Youre really not in that bad of a situation, yes you cost more but as newlyweds youre likely to be low on drama. An IS will average 10%-20% more for a teaching couple over a single housing benefit (if they provide an allowance) otherwise youll get the same size housing accommodation they would provide to a single. They may or may not provide a flight or you may have different spousal flight allowances, the higher the tier the IS the better they are about spousal benefits, but flights arent a huge expense. A little more for a dependent spouse insurance policy, its probably equal to the flight benefit so its not a deal breaker.
What the IS is really worried about is that youll get pregnant your first year and thats going to wreck their staffing.
Sure, but your spouse is going to have to qualify for a work visa on his own merit. Some regions will make it easier for someone on a dependent spousal visa, and some regions will allow a minimum amount of work ona dependent visa. If your spouse is working for themselves in their own capacity they are more likely not going to need a work visa. Otherwise whoever they work for or are employed by will have to arrange a work visa for them just as they would anyone else who is a foreigner.
Most mid and upper tier and even upper lower tier ISs have OSH packages that include spousal benefits. At worst youll have to pay a premium to the IS at whatever their rate is for a dependent, and absorb the cost of their flights. Such ISs will generally give you the same housing allowance or accommodation as they would for a single, usually the allowance would be enough to cover the utilities, and you might find a month where you use a little more water. Youll have the added cost of an extra mobile.
I know of no IS that would give a dependent spouse any type of leave such as home leave. Some ISs have an informal policy about giving wedding leave, other than that you have maternity leave. otherwise you have whatever leave anyone else would get and you use it for whatever the policy allows you to.
The WE is out as well (except for Switzerland) as most of the EU and the EE (well there are some EE ISs that arent on the circuit that pay amazing salaries). Any of the non- little tigers in Asia (that leaves out HK, JP, and SG). Chinas probably the best match youre a maths science IT and China always has a demand for ITs. TW pays about the same but the quality of life is better, but theres only 2 or 3 ISs in the upper tiers than quality drops to the third tier very quickly. Then you have Thailand, which while still cheap isnt as cheap as it used to be (and there are still ETs making ฿30K/mth in BKK), youd have a hard time living for to on one salary that wasnt at a tier 1 IS, you could still do it though. Myanmar, Cambodia, Vietnam Laos, Vietnam has some of th worst ISs globally, but they always seem to be hiring especially at the third tier level. Theres one 1st tier IS in Vietnam. Cambodia and Laos theres 1 IS each that would allow a high lifestyle and allow you some savings at the same time. Myanmar has likewise 1 st tier IS and a couple 2nd tier ISs, but they have a high need for ITs. Malaysia would work for you in KL, at a couple of ISs. Then you have Indonesia and the Philippines which have a very low cost of living, but not as modernly developed as the other parts of Asia, and those places are a lot more fun for single guys, but the coin isnt really there unless youre at a 1st tier IS, but the second tier is healthier.
Bored spouses get bored fast, theres just nothing to do. Theres two major barriers: First, the language barrier. Second, there isnt going to likely be a group of foreign English speaking stay at home husbands, its almost all going to be wives, and the few that are expats are going to be in child care, your no kid spouse just 'bumming' around all day is going to really be lonely. Youre not going to give him a huge allowance I imagine so that means hes going to be home on the internet all day if he doesnt make a hobby that he can do essentially on his own. Usually the spouse puts some English classes out for themselves, but thats going to find him teaching groups of bored housewives, and thats usually how the trouble starts. What else is there to do spend all day reading in the park, writing his novel in a cafe. Even a pub would be boring in the day outside of lunch. Then he gets home in time to clean up a little and make you dinner.
Usually chat online, look at adult content, have an affair, follow their hobbies. Mopping and cleaning takes a couple hours. Laundry takes two days if you dont have a drier (but most of its waiting time). The shopping takes a couple hours in the afternoon (without a vehicle you shop more often, but it takes less time). Cooking dinner takes 20-60 minutes.
1) Teaching Couples: The IS has some cost saving benefits, they fill two classrooms for less than the cost of to single ITs (mostly in housing costs) .
2) Single ITs: They break even, but singles tend to be less stable than couples, though when a teaching couple goes bad it tends to blow up.
3) Trailing Spouse: The IT costs more, but its not a huge pile of coin, its flights, a little more for housing and a little more for insurance.
4) Dependents: This varies but its the worse, each dependent child in addition to the other costs has much larger housing costs and tuition/fee places/waivers, which are an average value of 10K a piece, have a child too young for the IS and that means someone likely a parent is staying home meaning you have a lot more cost to fill one classroom.
Youre really not in that bad of a situation, yes you cost more but as newlyweds youre likely to be low on drama. An IS will average 10%-20% more for a teaching couple over a single housing benefit (if they provide an allowance) otherwise youll get the same size housing accommodation they would provide to a single. They may or may not provide a flight or you may have different spousal flight allowances, the higher the tier the IS the better they are about spousal benefits, but flights arent a huge expense. A little more for a dependent spouse insurance policy, its probably equal to the flight benefit so its not a deal breaker.
What the IS is really worried about is that youll get pregnant your first year and thats going to wreck their staffing.
Sure, but your spouse is going to have to qualify for a work visa on his own merit. Some regions will make it easier for someone on a dependent spousal visa, and some regions will allow a minimum amount of work ona dependent visa. If your spouse is working for themselves in their own capacity they are more likely not going to need a work visa. Otherwise whoever they work for or are employed by will have to arrange a work visa for them just as they would anyone else who is a foreigner.
Most mid and upper tier and even upper lower tier ISs have OSH packages that include spousal benefits. At worst youll have to pay a premium to the IS at whatever their rate is for a dependent, and absorb the cost of their flights. Such ISs will generally give you the same housing allowance or accommodation as they would for a single, usually the allowance would be enough to cover the utilities, and you might find a month where you use a little more water. Youll have the added cost of an extra mobile.
I know of no IS that would give a dependent spouse any type of leave such as home leave. Some ISs have an informal policy about giving wedding leave, other than that you have maternity leave. otherwise you have whatever leave anyone else would get and you use it for whatever the policy allows you to.
The WE is out as well (except for Switzerland) as most of the EU and the EE (well there are some EE ISs that arent on the circuit that pay amazing salaries). Any of the non- little tigers in Asia (that leaves out HK, JP, and SG). Chinas probably the best match youre a maths science IT and China always has a demand for ITs. TW pays about the same but the quality of life is better, but theres only 2 or 3 ISs in the upper tiers than quality drops to the third tier very quickly. Then you have Thailand, which while still cheap isnt as cheap as it used to be (and there are still ETs making ฿30K/mth in BKK), youd have a hard time living for to on one salary that wasnt at a tier 1 IS, you could still do it though. Myanmar, Cambodia, Vietnam Laos, Vietnam has some of th worst ISs globally, but they always seem to be hiring especially at the third tier level. Theres one 1st tier IS in Vietnam. Cambodia and Laos theres 1 IS each that would allow a high lifestyle and allow you some savings at the same time. Myanmar has likewise 1 st tier IS and a couple 2nd tier ISs, but they have a high need for ITs. Malaysia would work for you in KL, at a couple of ISs. Then you have Indonesia and the Philippines which have a very low cost of living, but not as modernly developed as the other parts of Asia, and those places are a lot more fun for single guys, but the coin isnt really there unless youre at a 1st tier IS, but the second tier is healthier.
Bored spouses get bored fast, theres just nothing to do. Theres two major barriers: First, the language barrier. Second, there isnt going to likely be a group of foreign English speaking stay at home husbands, its almost all going to be wives, and the few that are expats are going to be in child care, your no kid spouse just 'bumming' around all day is going to really be lonely. Youre not going to give him a huge allowance I imagine so that means hes going to be home on the internet all day if he doesnt make a hobby that he can do essentially on his own. Usually the spouse puts some English classes out for themselves, but thats going to find him teaching groups of bored housewives, and thats usually how the trouble starts. What else is there to do spend all day reading in the park, writing his novel in a cafe. Even a pub would be boring in the day outside of lunch. Then he gets home in time to clean up a little and make you dinner.
Usually chat online, look at adult content, have an affair, follow their hobbies. Mopping and cleaning takes a couple hours. Laundry takes two days if you dont have a drier (but most of its waiting time). The shopping takes a couple hours in the afternoon (without a vehicle you shop more often, but it takes less time). Cooking dinner takes 20-60 minutes.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Response
Agree with @PsyGuy on most counts, apart from trailing spouses being bored and possibly having affairs.
In my experience, in all cities I've lived in, trailing spouses (male and female alike) will find meaningful things to entertain themselves very easily, either hobbies, pursuing a career, volunteering, having an active social life, hiking, etc., and will not be bored unless they want to be. As long as you're not in the middle of nowhere and without internet, I wouldn't worry about it at all.
You teach Maths & Science, and have plenty of experience, so I would definitely not worry about marketability.
The IASAS experience will make you even more attractive, as ISs like candidates with experience at IASAS schools (I'd say they value it a bit too much in my opinion, but I'm not complaining...)
In my experience, in all cities I've lived in, trailing spouses (male and female alike) will find meaningful things to entertain themselves very easily, either hobbies, pursuing a career, volunteering, having an active social life, hiking, etc., and will not be bored unless they want to be. As long as you're not in the middle of nowhere and without internet, I wouldn't worry about it at all.
You teach Maths & Science, and have plenty of experience, so I would definitely not worry about marketability.
The IASAS experience will make you even more attractive, as ISs like candidates with experience at IASAS schools (I'd say they value it a bit too much in my opinion, but I'm not complaining...)
Re: Trailing Spouse
I don't think it's a big problem, hiring-wise and, fwiw, the teachers I knew that had affairs or were cheated on were teaching couples! It's definitely something to think about as a trailing husband about what to do. The majority of trailing spouses in the international community (not just teaching) are women so it can be hard to find your niche. Some of our trailing spouses sub or offer extracurriculars or coach. Where we live in South America, there are a lot of things -- hiking clubs, gyms, dancing, rowing, sports teams, etc. so once the language barrier is breached a bit it's a busy place. When we lived in China, it was much different--the trailing men I knew struggled quite a bit because so many things were catered for wives and it was much harder to break into local activities. My advice would be not to wait until you land--start researching expat options before you land so you know if the location is viable for a spouse.
Discussion
My issue with the "hiking clubs, gyms, dancing, rowing, sports teams, etc." is that they are all hobbies you have to be into either before or you have to become interested in them pretty quickly. Hiking clubs are fine for a weekend for example, but youre not going to find a daytime, work week group to do that meaning you have to be comfortable hiking by yourself. The same is true for a sports team or rowing, its an after work or weekend activity. A day time dancing class or group is reasonable but its going to be a bunch of wives (and maybe thats a good thing). If thats your thing great, but if its not are you going to do it just to have something to do.
The gym is fine, if you want to become or are the type of guy that can hang out at the gym all day, it will be a bunch of wives on cardio machines in yoga pants (again maybe not a bad thing), but its got to be an interest you can pursue on a long term basis meaning you either are already involved in that kind of lifestyle or you have to really get interested in it.
The gym is fine, if you want to become or are the type of guy that can hang out at the gym all day, it will be a bunch of wives on cardio machines in yoga pants (again maybe not a bad thing), but its got to be an interest you can pursue on a long term basis meaning you either are already involved in that kind of lifestyle or you have to really get interested in it.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Trailing Spouse
I wouldn't automatically assume/resign yourself to him not working at all. What does he do now? What is he qualified to do? What is he willing to do?
In many countries it would be feasible for him to do something, for income purposes and to give him a purpose. Many spouses end up doing something at school where language is not a huge barrier. Many people teach English, tutor, etc. Many people do some type of money making skill/service online. Whatever he is able to do will be helpful with bringing in money, developing/widening his skills, etc. I would start seriously considering and working on that before you worry about hiking clubs, etc.
In many countries it would be feasible for him to do something, for income purposes and to give him a purpose. Many spouses end up doing something at school where language is not a huge barrier. Many people teach English, tutor, etc. Many people do some type of money making skill/service online. Whatever he is able to do will be helpful with bringing in money, developing/widening his skills, etc. I would start seriously considering and working on that before you worry about hiking clubs, etc.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Trailing Spouse
Agree with @mamava, cheaters are gonna cheat. People who are very insecure or those without empathy (or both) are more likely to cheat, and being a trailing spouse won't make it much more likely – it's a personality thing more than anything else.
Also agree with @wrldtrvlr123, many cities will have opportunities to do work of some kind, if the school doesn't offer opportunities. There are also jobs you can do online, remotely.
And if there's no job to be found, in any city of a certain size there will be something to dedicate your time too, and if not, the internet will give you loads of options. If it were me, I'd spend my time exploring and photographing the city, learn the local language, do some writing, sign up for online courses, go hiking by myself and/or go to the gym.
Some people do find it hard to be alone for much of the day, but I think most will enjoy their time.
Also agree with @wrldtrvlr123, many cities will have opportunities to do work of some kind, if the school doesn't offer opportunities. There are also jobs you can do online, remotely.
And if there's no job to be found, in any city of a certain size there will be something to dedicate your time too, and if not, the internet will give you loads of options. If it were me, I'd spend my time exploring and photographing the city, learn the local language, do some writing, sign up for online courses, go hiking by myself and/or go to the gym.
Some people do find it hard to be alone for much of the day, but I think most will enjoy their time.
Discussion
I dont disagree with @WT123, my assumption was that his professional field didnt have an equivalent they could do at an OS post (something like law enforcement or fire science, etc). If they have a background in something business orientated (accounting, digital media, ICT, etc.) however than there is likely to be something they could do professionally, even if it was on their own hustling their own clients.
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Heliotrope
- Posts: 1168
- Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am
Re: Trailing Spouse
Go on Facebook, join a expat group for the city you're considering working in, and post a question there asking if there are any (professional or volunteer) opportunities there for trailing spouses. You might be surprised (hopefully positively).