New resume for re-applying? Use a professional service?

[Thames Pirate]

Whatever. I can say water is wet and you would disagree with me.

I think we have said enough for people to draw their own conclusions. If they don't tailor their letters, well, it makes mine stand out even more I guess. The advice is solid; what people do with it after reading your unsubstantiated contrariness is up to them.

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

No, water is wet, I would concur with you.

It dorsnt make your resume stand out at all, cover letters dont matter so there is nothing to stand out. There is nothing solid about wasting your time on trivial tailoring of a cover letter. Only data matters, and cover letters arent read until before the interview. Your the type that thinks your getting some measure of increased learning from constantly tweaking lesson plans as well, thats the same unsubstantiated claim as yours that tailoring a document matters.

[Heliotrope]

Your whole point hinges on your assumption that cover letters don't get read, however I have had interviews where it was very clear that my cover had been read, and a large part of the interview was about what I wrote in it. So your assumption is not correct. Of course there will be school where it doesn't get read, but there are certainly schools where they will read it, and as long as there's not a list of which school does and which doesn't, I'll gladly spend a few hours tailoring my cover letters and increasing my odds, even if it's just a little.

And my mother can pick out the perfect tie for my interview, but I'm very sure she she wouldn't have been hired if she would have done the interview in my stead, however charming and utterly great she is.

And saying that you can tailor a cover letter in 5 minutes is not really a good brag. I'm sure you're also bragging to women how you can make love in under 5 minutes, but that merely means you're not doing a good job (or getting a good job).
But if you do do the research and write a good tailored letter, it can give you an edge, in my (and others) experience.

But you probably agree and just don't want to alert your future competition to this.

[shadowjack]

My vote? Tailor your cover letter. *Passes the popcorn to Sid. Sid? Sid?"

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

Please read more carefully, I stated that cover letters commonly dont get read until right before the interview, the point after you already have scheduled and made the interview stage. Of course your cover letter got read, skimmed, reviewed shortly before sitting down and talking, thats where they got that little gem of information and used it as the ice breaker in your interview. If you hadnt tailored the cover letter it would have been something else in the cover letter or in your resume. Tailoring your cover letter didnt change anything meaningfully, it was just an object.
Youre suffering from selection bias, that something selected was perceived as more valuable or had better utility on the basis of being chosen. If you say your going to lay out 10 coins of the same type (all 500¥ coins) and ask me to pick the best one, and I decide in my mind its going to be the fourth coin, and then you lay them out, and I pick the fourth coin, your perception is theres something better about that coin than the other 9, when it was actually per-determined or take the deciding in advance portion out, and I choose the coin randomly. Thats what your thinking some leadership/recruiter picked something and you think it was superior, when the reality is it could have and would have been something else, had you not tailored the cover letter. Again, you wouldnt have just sat silently starring at each other. The interviewer would have started with something.
Random pattern is an oxymoron. If its random there is no pattern and if theres a pattern than its not random. Youre looking for significance in the randomness. Your lizard brain is trying to exert control over a scenario you have no control over by justifying action as being able to manipulate the screening and selection system. Youre not, youre substituting feelings for variance, you want to feel you can influence the system, youre not, youre just the button in the process, pushing the call button repeatedly doesnt make the elevator move or respond faster.

We disagree its not giving you an edge your just wasting time, but its your time to waste and you can believe whatever you want.

[Heliotrope]

Even if cover letters aren't always read before making the long or short list, sometimes they will be.
If so, I'd rather have a good cover letter that shows I have done my research, and in such a way that they will know it's not a standard cover letter.

And regarding my interview: they definitely didn't just skim my letter, they had read it thoroughly. They referred to multiple parts of it throughout the interview, from memory. I wouldn't have been offended if they hadn't read it, but they did and noticed that it was tailored to their school, so I was very glad I took some time to write it. It also got them talking about my strengths, so that made the interview go very well.

Yes, we would have talked about something else during the interview had I not tailored my letter, of course, but if I can influence what they will be asking me about, I will do that. Likewise you can wear a dirty shirt and a tie with copulating zebras on it to an interview, and they would still fill the time. But I'd rather make a good impression by wearing something professional, and my cover letter is part of how I present myself: professional, prepared, and with attention to detail.

Sending out 50 identical cover letters for 50 applications is like putting cheap flyers in all the mailboxes in a street, as opposed to using targeted Facebook ads that will be tailored to the receiver. For bottom bottom tier for-profit schools that just need warm bodies in the classroom, the ordinary flyers will suffice. For schools where the competition is very hard and that want only the best, I rather make sure everything about my application is top notch, including the cover letter. I don't mind investing some time to get into my dream school, but you can make a different choice.

And I know very well your CV and how well you interview are way way more important to making it onto the short list, but at some point in your career, all your competitors will have similarly impressive CV's, so I don't want to miss an opportunity to impress just because I didn't think it was worth 10 minutes of tailoring my letter.

Perhaps someone who is actually in recruiting can weigh in?
More useful than PsyGuy and myself going back and forth, although that does take care of that popcorn surplus.
I don't like to be wrong (who does?), but then again I really wouldn't mind hearing that I don't have to invest that time for future applications, although it only takes the one recruiter that will notice and appreciate it.

[Walter]

As usual, Dear Old Dave is talking bullocks. Which isn't a surprise since he has zero experience of being a recruiter, despite the claims that he makes about having a ghost experience as a recruiter at SEARCH Melbourne while working in a junior admin post in Europe. (Not one part of this true.) Then again, he also claims to have worked for DODEA, and that isn't true either.

Different recruiters do things differently. There is no one way. But this is how I do things at recruitment fairs:
1) I check through all the relevant applications and study the experience and qualifications
2) If I'm still interested, I read the references
3) If I'm still interested, I read the personal statement
4) If I'm still interested, I will contact the favorite candidates by e mail and also leave a message/brochure in their folders

There is no one who comes by at sign-up whose docs I haven't seen. That doesn't mean to say that I never interview those who approach me at sign-up without having received an invitation. There may be some on my "possibles" list whom I haven't invited and have decided to see if they approach me. Then I'l make a call on how they present themselves.
I can say for certain that I would never interview someone whose personal statement (which is of course a cover letter under another name) is of poor quality.

For those who make contact directly by individual application through HR:
1) I read the resume
2) If I'm still interested, I read the cover letter
3) If I'm still interested, I contact the referees
4) If I'm still interested, I contact the candidate

If the cover letter is generic or of poor quality, they don't get to third base...

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

::Bad Lizard Brain::

This is the problem with people who dont understand the improbability of highly improbable events. Your cover letter probability is in the same category as dyeing in an airplane crash, it makes good news copy, but your more likely to be killed by a sheep than die in an airplane crash, thats the same level of probability as your tailored cover letter mattering. Its the same logical error as the lottery, someone wins the lottery so you should always buy a lottery ticket because you cant win if you dont play.

Yes they did skim your letter, the multiple parts they referenced were the multiple parts they skimmed, your cover letter is what a page how long do you think it takes to scan it.
Of course they were able to recall those parts from memory, those were the only parts they remembered. What do you think the memory recall is on something you literally read a minute before citing it. Here remember this: Onomatopoeia, do you remember Onomatopoeia, of course you do you just read it. Do you really believe that an interviewer cant remember for an hour a few bits they just read?

::Bad Lizard Brain::

Your not influencing anything, you only think you are. You have zero, absolutely no predictive validity that anything tailored or not in your cover letter is going to be a focus or even a passing topic of conversation.
No, they didnt thats selection bias again, your feeling because they attended to something that it was valuable, its not, it could have entirely been random and you dont know it wasnt. You just want to feel that it was significant because of your lizard brain.

No its not, its more an equivalence of using generic FB ads vs targeted FB adds vs. curated FB adds, they all work, curated work best, targeted work better but they all work. Your tailored cover letter doesnt work, its significance is random. Your investment in your cover letter isnt getting you into your dream IS its the other factors that are part of your resume and then your interview.

Because its not worth 10 minutes of your time, and I actually recruit. Of course the @Sids and @Walters want you to do busy work, their leadership. Heres this science/art/PHE/supply room, we have no budget to augment it, and we dont care whats in there, but inventory it anyway.

Youre trying to find control points in a system you dont have control over because the only real control you had was to apply or not to apply, push the button or dont push the button, red pill or blue pill, thats it. Everything until then and up to the interview is out of your hands, until the interview you are no longer part of the system, you are not part of the process, you are not a stakeholder, you are not a presence.

@Walter

You know nothing. Ive done more recruiting than you and also work for DODEA.

[Heliotrope]

Poor PsyGuy, at some point someone in leadership most have done something terrible to you, for you to become so cynical.

You keep saying the cover letter is of no importance, yet you don't support this in any way. I'm sure you will again have your 'trusted sources', etc. which has zero value since you never produce them, and fake experience doesn't count.
Then Walter comes along, who actually recruits, and proves that at least one recruiter does value a well-written cover letter, and it would be very improbable if he's the only one that thinks that.

And if they 'skimmed' all those parts they referenced, that means they've read it pretty much entirely. And if they ask questions based on what they've 'skimmed' (read), then I have them right where I want them, as they are asking me about my strengths.
I never enter a lottery, because I know all about odds and only play if the odds are reasonable, and tailoring a cover letter is well worth the investment in my opinion. I've never applied to more than ten schools at a time anyway.

"The only real control you had was to apply or not to apply"?
Haha! Really?
A candidate does have some control over the process, mostly by making sure you don't get sorted into the 'NO' pile. A hastily written incomplete CV, or a terrible standard cover letter will get you in that pile. So I spend time on my CV, and on tailoring my cover letter, so my application will end up in the 'YES' pile instead, and help me get to that interview with these 'awful' leadership people.
Anything that might be read by the people deciding whether or not I will get an interview and then a job, including the text of the email and all correspondence after, is deserving of my time and energy.

I sure hope Walter works at one of the schools on my short list, just in case he's the only one that reads cover letters. Apart from the recruiters I've already encountered who do, of course. And the recruiter @Iliana Blues met with who does.

[PsyGuy]

@Heliotrope

The sources and the experience are real, and @Walter is just the mouth piece for leadership and of the LPN. You just like their response because it supports your position. @Walter "proves" nothing, its just their opinion that they claim is accurate, there is nothing self authenticating about @Walters claim.

Even assuming they read the whole cover letter and they did so intently, they would have done so whether it was tailored or not. You can have "strengths" and well written generic letter just as much as a tailored one, were not comparing a tailored cover letter to a blank piece of paper.
Your opinion of the value of the investment is just your feelings, you self declare its valuable because you claim it to be.

::Bad Lizard Brain::

Yes really, really, really, really. You have zero control over the process, you have no influence or authority over getting sorted into the reject group, none, zero. Claiming you do is just your ego telling your lizard brain to rationalize it.
Sure might get read, might be worth the time and effort, cover letters dont get read until right before the interview, which you already have.

[Thames Pirate]

You're also an expert on horses, the German pension system, my personal finances, rent prices in the Hague, and whatever else comes up on this forum. It kills you that someone might know more about something than you do, but rather than learn, you prefer to fake it. Well, it's caught up to you. We have had enough and will continue to call you out for the liar you are.

[Heliotrope]

> The sources and the experience are real

How am I to believe that, when you have claimed in another thread that lying is ok, and you never reveal your 'sources', even when it would end a discussion with just one link provided?
No proof = no relevance.


> and @Walter is just the mouth piece for leadership and of the LPN.

Why? Because he's not agreeing with you, and you have had some bad experiences with leadership?


> @Walter "proves" nothing, its just
> their opinion that they claim is accurate, there is nothing self
> authenticating about @Walters claim.

All he says is that this is how HE does it, he never made any claims that go beyond that ("Different recruiters do things differently. There is no one way. But this is how I do things at recruitment fairs: etc.").
Walter is a recruiter, and he uses the cover letters as a means to decide who to interview.
It proves that at least one recruiter does.
So yes, that supports my position that cover letters matter.
And who is 'they'?


> Even assuming they read the whole cover letter and they did so intently,
> they would have done so whether it was tailored or not. You can have
> "strengths" and well written generic letter just as much as a
> tailored one, were not comparing a tailored cover letter to a blank piece
> of paper.

My letter talked about how I would see myself function at their school in the advertised position, based on what I read on their website, job advert, and what I've learned through other research about their approach. If you just write down your strengths, there's less to provoke a relevant conversation about the job at hand.


> Your opinion of the value of the investment is just your feelings, you self
> declare its valuable because you claim it to be.

You self-declare it to be of no value, based on your feelings. What's the difference?


> Yes really, really, really, really. You have zero control over the process,
> you have no influence or authority over getting sorted into the reject
> group, none, zero. Claiming you do is just your ego telling your lizard
> brain to rationalize it.

Yes, you have control. Do you think someone applying for English HOD with a CV set in Comic Sans with every letter a different color, containing lots of spelling errors, would ever end up in the 'YES' pile? Think again.
If that same person makes it look professional, check his writing and does way with all the colors, (s)he will have a far better chance.


> Sure might get read, might be worth the time and effort, cover letters dont
> get read until right before the interview, which you already have.

Walter already disproved this by stating he reads them way before that point in the process. And if he does, very likely others will too.

I'd welcome others involved in recruitment to chime in though.