Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Heliotrope
Posts: 1167
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by Heliotrope »

@PsyGuy

Even if I would be comfortable with lying (which I'm not),
I remember lots of people I talked to years ago. Not everyone, but plenty. It depends on the conversation, the context, and the person of course, but I regularly run into other teachers at PD events that remember me (and my name and school) from years back, and vice versa.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by Thames Pirate »

sid wrote:
> "any attempt to appeal to the better side of a psychopath's better
> nature will be judged by these master manipulators as a sign of weakness,
> for conscience is something they do not possess, and one's efforts will
> fail"
> - Talking with Psychopaths and Savages: A Journey into the Evil Mind;
> Christopher Berry-Dee

We might not be able to appeal to his better nature, but hopefully the hive can expose him for the liar he is and prevent others from taking him too seriously or following his advice.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by sid »

He exposes himself, being rather short in the area of “master manipulator”.
So we can eat popcorn rather than waste time arguing with him.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Heliotrope

You arent them, your not likely to get a tour with anyone in leadership, and your impression wont last long in the mind of an admissions officer, but even assuming you are remembered, and you do tour with someone in leadership. Theres still no risk here, you were touring for a friend since you were going to be in the area on a holiday. Its a non-issue.
If your fine with them declining a meeting and a tour than be honest. If the consequences of rejection are of no value to you, than subterfuge and deception arent getting you something you value, thus why bother.

@Thames Pirate
@Sid

So thats a no than on those invites to your Diogenes award I take it?
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by Thames Pirate »

I don't think one gets an award for spotting the obvious. No cynicism needed.
secondplace
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by secondplace »

@secondplace

::yawn::

Sticks and stones from the self proclaimed grammar police and morality gestapo. PT Barnum, a business philosopher, once said theres one of you born every minute.

I've always thought I was more Stasi than GeStaPo.....
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by sid »

secondplace wrote:
> @secondplace
> I've always thought I was more Stasi than GeStaPo.....

Excellent job making our points for us. Way to get into the spirit!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames Pirate

They dont, its those in glass houses throwing rocks. Unless @Thames Pirate and @Sid have never told a lie, and thus worthy of Diogenese search for 10 honest men.

@secondplace

Maybe grammar Stasi.
Illiane_Blues

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by Illiane_Blues »

Lying to get a parents tour is by no means a victimless crime.
My sister-in-law is a realtor specializing in the upper upper segment of the market. Some of her listing are houses of celebrities, and she shows around lots of people who just want to see these house without any intention of buying it. Showing houses is part of her job, but it's not the only thing she does obviously, so these people are just wasting her time with their lies about being interested in buying the place.
So I implore you not to lie and just be open about your intentions.
That way there's also a better chance of meeting the right people who you perhaps will interview with down the line to get a job there.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Illiane_Blues

An inconvenience does not make your sister a victim not does it make an ISs staff or leadership a victim. You expressed my point succinctly though, just as people would be less likely to get a tour of a celebs house if they ere honest, so would an IT be less likely to get a tour based on a job interview. In this case the deception, presenting as a parent has benefits and no risk.
Illiane_Blues

Re: Reply

Post by Illiane_Blues »

It's not an 'inconvenience', it's costing her money.
She wouldn't have to hire her part-time assistant if it wasn't for these liars.
Furthermore she gets to spend less time with her children.

And it doesn't prove your point: they shouldn't get a tour in someone's private home to begin with if they already know they won't buy it, unless the owner wants to give them one. It's not her job to do this, she's there to show it it to actual potential buyers.
Just as it's up to the school to decide if teachers from other schools should get a tour of their campus. It's their campus, you don't get to decide for them by being dishonest.
Psychometrika
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by Psychometrika »

Why even lie? What’s the point? To get a tour and potentially eliminate that school as an employer? I think most of us knows what the inside of a school looks like at this point.

Personally, I would do a bit of research and see what teaching approach/philosophy the school uses. Then contact admin and say I would like to do an observation as a professional development experience to learn more about whatever methodology. They might say no, but if they say yes I would follow through with the observation, maybe do an interview or two, make nice with everyone, and maybe actually learn something while making professional contacts.

But that’s just me. You could just do the whole trench coat with sunglasses super secret spy approach if it amuses you. Good luck on that advancing you professionally though!

Edit to add: Also don’t forget the fake mustache! That’s what really pulls it all together!
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Visiting a school during the Summer for a tour?

Post by shadowjack »

<...is pouring popcorn down his gullet as he catches up on the thread!!!...>
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@Illiane_Blues

Cost of Doing Business, people ant hat people want and its their job to get it. Yes deception lets you decide if your going to get what you want, thats how getting what you want works.

@Psychometrika

Deception increases the probability of getting the tour and making contact. You lose the opportunity entirely if the IS declines. Theres no risk.

Cant do an observation, the trip is scheduled after the AY term ends, theres nothing to observe.
Illiane_Blues

Re: Reply

Post by Illiane_Blues »

That's not a valid argument since it's only 'cost of doing business' because people lie.
And it still means it's not a victimless crime.
If what people want is something they're not entitled to, then they should learn to live with not getting it. It happens all the time. If you instead think that deceit is a valid way of getting what you're not entitled to after all, you're not a decent human being. Probably got spoiled too much as a kid.

Personally I would like Jeff Bezos to sign over Amazon to me, but I suspect I'll have to accept that's not going to happen. I will have to learn to live with that.
Why? Because I'm not entitled to it.

And I'm also not going to impersonate a Nigerian prince to get people to sign over their money to me, even if I'd like to swim in money, and they'd be foolish to do so.
Why? Because lying is wrong, and I'm not entitled to their money.

Also not going to fake being interested in buying a house just because a celebrity lives in it and I want to see it.
Why? Because I'm not entitled to a visit just because i want it, if I'm not considering buying the house, and it will cost the agent time and money.

I'm not going to pretend I'm a parent interested in placing my child in a school just because I want to see the campus.
Why? Because if the school doesn't want to give a visiting teacher a tour, I will have to learn to accept that, and I'm not entitled to a parent tour.



PsyGuy wrote:
> @Illiane_Blues
>
> Cost of Doing Business, people want what people want and its their job to get
> it. Yes deception lets you decide if your going to get what you want, thats
> how getting what you want works.
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