Bangkok Pollution

eion_padraig
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by eion_padraig »

@mathman85, my comment was a general one saying I feel lots of people list Thailand as high on their list on this forum over other countries I think are quite similar. If you're looking for effective government decisions in Thailand over long term issues, you are likely to be disappointed. It's good they are extending the MRT, but right now the sky train and the subway use different transit cards, and the lines to get cards can be huge. How easy would it be to integrate those systems in one card? That's just one issue I can name off the top of my head. I suspect you're more likely to see them censoring data on air quality like China has done. Japan and Korea would be other countries I see making good decisions on long term issues in general besides Singapore, but in a lot of countries it's can be easy to see the downsides of decisions being made.

Cost in Thailand varies hugely. Yes, if you're looking for Western-style entertainment and food, it can be very pricey. I went drinking at the Mikkeller Bar in Bangkok and it was crazy expensive (but still worth it in my opinion). On the other hand, Chang beer from the local convenience store or their hard alcohol is super inexpensive. You can get great food from small little kiosk type places, or pay sky high costs for high end foreign food.

So back to your original question, did you make a mistake giving up clean air and an easy commute in Western Europe? If those are the things you value most highly, then yes, you did. If you're looking for re-assurance that things are "not that bad" with the air quality, then you're going to get lots of opinions. If you're looking at this more holistically, valuing pay, quality of life, future work opportunities, and health impacts, then I think you've made a decent choice.

Eion
mathman85
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by mathman85 »

Thanks for the insights, eion.
teacher tan
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by teacher tan »

@mathman85
Thailand is probably the most competitive region for ITs, thanks to its low-cost living, extraordinary nightlife, and tremendous savings, but it all depends on your lifestyle. I would say you made a heck of a decision as you will be working with some of the most accomplished faculty in IT who are constantly reinventing themselves (at least, at the top schools). Would love to chat over an adult beverage if our paths ever cross. We spent summer in Italy, New Year's on a private beach in S.Thailand and yet we save in high five-figures (USD).
chiliverde
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:45 am
Location: Europe

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by chiliverde »

We are in BKK right now. My response would be very different if we were still in the all red days like we were last week, but luckily that has passed. It's our first year here so I don't have comprehensive knowledge, but I can say this:

Bangkok pollution is at some points of the year worse than other urban centers, but not significantly worse when you balance it out with the air quality year round. In the rainy season and early winter we had almost all green days. Pollution is a reality in nearly all urban centers, so it's just a matter of degree.

One thing to also consider is if anyone in your family has mold or dust mite allergies. I never knew I had one until I moved here, because apparently dust mites thrive in humid climates (gross). You will also get all the new viruses from moving to a continent you've never been to.

There are downsides to BKK but also many benefits. Maybe make a list of pros and cons about coming here and see how you are shaking out as a family overall?
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@mathman85

Thailand isnt anywhere near being the most competitive region, not even in Asia (Japan has that honor), Thailand is firmly in the middle in regards to desirability . I strongly disagree with @eion_padraig, and a list of pros and cons (advantages and disadvantages), none of any of those factors matter if your spouse cant breath, and if they are mildly asthmatic in the pristine air you have here you are at, thank BKK is going to make their life miserable and ultimately unlivable.
Heliotrope
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Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> Thailand isnt anywhere near being the most competitive region, not even in
> Asia (Japan has that honor), Thailand is firmly in the middle in regards to
> desirability .

Japan might be the most competitive, but listening to my teacher friends and colleagues, Thailand would be second, in Asia at least, followed by Singapore, and then perhaps UAE for those who like that kind of lifestyle.
Hong Kong, Vietnam, South Korea, Taiwan and Oman get a mention sometime, and China for making $$$.
After those it's usually a specific school people are after, not so much a specific country (like a certain school in Malaysia, and another excellent school in The Philippines).

But yes, pollution shouldn't just a mention on a pro & con list. Crap in your lungs might kill you, having pleasant weather year round is likely to take years of your life. That being said, few capital cities in Asia remain if you want really good air quality.
teacher tan
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by teacher tan »

With insular life and high cost of living and travel, Japan isn't as attractive as Thailand. Except two schools in the region, none of them pay what might be considered as a tier 1 salary for a city like Tokyo/Yokohama. Thanks to a stagnant economy, the enrollments in these schools are dwindling and that could be a long-term concern for ITs as well, not to mention the constant threat of earthquakes and radiation.

Thailand on the other hand offers a better wage, comfortable housing, affordable and world-class healthcare, inexpensive travel, and friendly locals. Life is simply more fulfilling here, both emotionally and financially.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@teacher tan

Your opinion, doesnt matter what you think of as an insular life or high cost of living, it doesnt matter to candidates, there is more competition for Japan than there is for Thailand. You can say a lot of the same things about the WE, still has long lines at fairs and many many applicants.

JP has "comfortable housing, affordable and world-class healthcare, inexpensive travel, and friendly locals".

@Heliotrope

Not even second, HK is second, and then SK is third and Thailand is fourth (but they are real close and when you look at various demographics Thailand pulls ahead of SK). Regardless JPs ranking is so high (about 75%) the rest of Asia is fighting for scraps.
UAE and Oman are in the ME.
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

PsyGuy wrote:

> @Heliotrope
>
> Not even second, HK is second, and then SK is third and Thailand is fourth (but they
> are real close and when you look at various demographics Thailand pulls ahead of
> SK). Regardless JPs ranking is so high (about 75%) the rest of Asia is fighting
> for scraps.
> UAE and Oman are in the ME.
===============
Actual rankings vs. different people's opinions? That would be very helpful to see. Where can we find them?
teacher tan
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by teacher tan »

I have seen teachers from tier 1 schools in Japan applying to schools in Thailand and going empty-handed.
Here is the ranking from an admin perspective (for tier 1 schools only):

1. Thailand

2. Japan

3. Hong Kong

4. Taiwan

5. S.Korea

6. Malaysia

7. China

8. Vietnam

9. Cambodia

10. Laos

Folks who can't make it to top 3 in Asia choose Europe, but many of them return to Asia if they are young and have a solid offer.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

Leadership perspectives are worth somewhere between nil and zero, JP is first and literally beats out all other Asian regions combined. Ive seen ITs settle for Thailand when they couldnt get into Japan. For ITs the rankings are:

1) Japan
2) Hong Kong
3) South Korea / Thailand
4) Indonesia (Bali)
5) Singapore
6) Malaysia
7) Taiwan
8) Vietnam / Philippines
9) China
10) Myanmar
11) Laos / Cambodia
Heliotrope
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Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Reply

Post by Heliotrope »

PsyGuy wrote:
> Not even second, HK is second, and then SK is third and Thailand is fourth

So then it's not "firmly in the middle".
I was just giving a ranking based on what I hear around me. Amongst my friends it's very popular, since there are some very good tier 1 schools in Thailand.
I would personally prefer Japan though, and especially the city of Tokyo, but for my friends the cold weather is almost a dealbreaker. Radiation is not a real issue for Japan @TT, but that has been discussed before so not worth repeating.

Where do you two (PsyGuy and TT) get your rankings from btw?
I'm sure there are stats somewhere to back them up, and I'm not saying they're not accurate (although the high ranking of SK is a bit of a surprise), but just wondering where you've found them.


PsyGuy wrote:
> UAE and Oman are in the ME.

That might be, but UAE and Oman are part of Asia nevertheless:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... es_in_Asia
But I get your point, it is often treated as a separate continent by many, but then it's wise to avoid using the term Asia to describe an area without certain Asian countries.
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

Heliotrope wrote:
>
> Where do you two (PsyGuy and TT) get your rankings from btw?
> I'm sure there are stats somewhere to back them up, and I'm not saying they're not
> accurate (although the high ranking of SK is a bit of a surprise), but just wondering
> where you've found them.
================
Your optimism is refreshing but likely misplaced (happy to be proven wrong though). I too would love to see an actual rating based on a poll, numbers of application per school, anything resembling data but have given up expecting it or assuming there is any.

The fact that PG went from "firmly in the middle" to top three in the very next post should tell you something about the origin of his desirability ranking (hint: unlike Thailand, the sun don't shine there :D).
teacher tan
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by teacher tan »

Based on 'International Schools Guide', accreditation reports from CIS, NEASC, and WASC, and school associations, such as EARCOS, FOBISIA, and ISA.
Schools in Japan simply can't rival the infrastructure of their tier 1 counterparts in BKK and folks from the former regularly visit the latter for PD and go home enlightened, not to mention our condos have pools and BBQ areas.
Overhere
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:29 am

Re: Bangkok Pollution

Post by Overhere »

ironically the school I have enjoyed working at the most is in Laos, illustrating once again that one teacher’s list is just that, one teacher’s list.
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