Seeking advice

wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Seeking advice

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

straycat2019 wrote:
> The package is here and a lot of this is left blank.
> I'm used to what the schools offered in the past, so all the blanks is really confusing.
>
>
> They filled out the dates so that's good - a two year contract.
>
> Do they want me to negotiate the salary and the duties I will be having? I'm really
> lost!
====================
To be honest, it sounds fairly dodgy and disorganized. What you had was a "The job is yours if you want it" type of interview which is never a good sign, especially since they basically decided that before the interview (possibly they would have not hired you if you literally answered the Skype call with a bloody ax actually in your hand, but we'll never know).

Now, none of this means that it's necessarily a fraud and that you shouldn't consider working there, given your situation. You need experience in a K-12 setting and you need certification in order to progress in a career as an int'l teacher. If this school ticks one of those boxes it's worth considering as long as it's not unsafe and you can actually survive on the package.

As for the mostly blank package, that is odd. If they wanted you to start a negotiation then they should have at least asked you your desired salary, benefits etc., rather than just a blank space that you have to interpret.

Definitely get in touch with the foreign teachers’ liaison and ask some questions. You've come this far you may as well find out what you can about the school and see what they are offering. I hear good things about Taiwan so you certainly could do worse than working at a bad to decent school in a good/great location.
eion_padraig
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: Seeking advice

Post by eion_padraig »

wrldtrvlr123 gives some good points on his last post.

For what it's worth, Taiwan is a very liveable country for foreigners I know who have lived there. It's a nice mix of the good things from China and a few things that feel like Japan. While the level of English is not very high outside of Taipei (and even in Taipei it's not as high as Shanghai or Hong Kong), but people are super friendly and willing to help.

The downside for IT is that the pay and quality of the schools falls off dramatically from the top school in the country to a few others (I'd say 2 from what I've heard) to lots of low tier places that really just serve Taiwanese kids (who have managed to secure foreign passports). Usually it comes down to poor leadership by Taiwanese owners and nepotism issues, which makes things chaotic and less professional than better schools.

But if you need the two years experience, there are worse countries to start in.

Eion
alet3233
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:37 pm

Re: Seeking advice

Post by alet3233 »

@straycat2019, which site did you use to find the job in Taiwan? I'm also a NQT looking for a job in business/economics. Thanks.
straycat2019
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:38 am

Re: Seeking advice

Post by straycat2019 »

alet3233 wrote:
> @straycat2019, which site did you use to find the job in Taiwan? I'm also
> a NQT looking for a job in business/economics. Thanks.

I used ISS-Schrole.
straycat2019
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:38 am

Re: Seeking advice

Post by straycat2019 »

eion_padraig wrote:
> wrldtrvlr123 gives some good points on his last post.
>
> For what it's worth, Taiwan is a very liveable country for foreigners I
> know who have lived there. It's a nice mix of the good things from China
> and a few things that feel like Japan. While the level of English is not
> very high outside of Taipei (and even in Taipei it's not as high as
> Shanghai or Hong Kong), but people are super friendly and willing to help.
>
> The downside for IT is that the pay and quality of the schools falls off
> dramatically from the top school in the country to a few others (I'd say 2
> from what I've heard) to lots of low tier places that really just serve
> Taiwanese kids (who have managed to secure foreign passports). Usually it
> comes down to poor leadership by Taiwanese owners and nepotism issues,
> which makes things chaotic and less professional than better schools.
>
> But if you need the two years experience, there are worse countries to
> start in.
>
> Eion

Thanks wrldtrvlr123 and Eion for your feedback. I really appreciate your help!

I had my friend looked over my package and he said it is pretty decent offer - at least by the look of it.
I'll have to email the school and find out more about it. Thanks again!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@straycat2019

Spending time and resources and coin for degrees isnt worth very much not in IE, and then only when those degrees supplement an IT who checks the other boxes. That doesnt mean your masters is worth zero, there are a lot of third tier (and some higher tier ISs) that will accept a masters in an edu field for faculty appointments (in some regions the working credential for a DT is a Masters or other degree in edu).
However, as I wrote earlier, you choose the least marketable field (ESOL) for someone who is not a NTE and doesnt look like the stereotypical westerner.

I dont know of any programs that provide a US credential online. There are online organizations and Unis that will provide an EPP/ITT program online, some offer distance preparation but your still going to have to do some form of field experience in person, and likely some exams. There are states that issue entry grade credentials that dont require an EPP/ITT program, these are assessment based pathways that the application is available online but you will still have to sit for exams in person, at an exam center. Probably the closest to an online certificate would be an ACSI temporary certificate as an all grade/level ESOL teaching certificate, but this isnt a credential that licenses you for anything, it would still be something to add to your resume and the cost is fairly low (USD$75, renewable every two years).

The most marketable pathway going forward with what you have would be to set aside the ESOL for the time being and switch to foreign language (FL) such as mandarin (or whatever your native language is) and get certified to teach that, which as a bilingual FL IT who can teach the language in the classroom and communicate proficiently with western staff is a much stronger marketable position. While there are fewer positions, you wont have to be bothered so much with the NES requirement, will be able to use non-traditional certifications and credentials and youll look the part. You will also find yourself more attractive to higher tier ISs here being bilingual is more a necessity than just an advantage.

As to the IS you interviewed with, they were just looking for a warm body with a pulse. They must has sent you a draft contract and figure the only thing you care about is the coin, or its blank because they consider you an LH in terms of benefits. If you would post the benefits and offer specifications the contributors can give you a better ana1ysis of the offer and how good or bad it is. I would get in touch with the foreign IT liaison and see about getting those blanks filled in or at least a description, as it is, there isnt much of a contract for you to agree too unless their position is "we will give you what we want, and youll like it".
straycat2019
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:38 am

Re: Reply

Post by straycat2019 »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @straycat2019
>
> Spending time and resources and coin for degrees isnt worth very much not
> in IE, and then only when those degrees supplement an IT who checks the
> other boxes. That doesnt mean your masters is worth zero, there are a lot
> of third tier (and some higher tier ISs) that will accept a masters in an
> edu field for faculty appointments (in some regions the working credential
> for a DT is a Masters or other degree in edu).
> However, as I wrote earlier, you choose the least marketable field (ESOL)
> for someone who is not a NTE and doesnt look like the stereotypical
> westerner.
>
> I dont know of any programs that provide a US credential online. There are
> online organizations and Unis that will provide an EPP/ITT program online,
> some offer distance preparation but your still going to have to do some
> form of field experience in person, and likely some exams. There are states
> that issue entry grade credentials that dont require an EPP/ITT program,
> these are assessment based pathways that the application is available
> online but you will still have to sit for exams in person, at an exam
> center. Probably the closest to an online certificate would be an ACSI
> temporary certificate as an all grade/level ESOL teaching certificate, but
> this isnt a credential that licenses you for anything, it would still be
> something to add to your resume and the cost is fairly low (USD$75,
> renewable every two years).
>
> The most marketable pathway going forward with what you have would be to
> set aside the ESOL for the time being and switch to foreign language (FL)
> such as mandarin (or whatever your native language is) and get certified to
> teach that, which as a bilingual FL IT who can teach the language in the
> classroom and communicate proficiently with western staff is a much
> stronger marketable position. While there are fewer positions, you wont
> have to be bothered so much with the NES requirement, will be able to use
> non-traditional certifications and credentials and youll look the part. You
> will also find yourself more attractive to higher tier ISs here being
> bilingual is more a necessity than just an advantage.
>
> As to the IS you interviewed with, they were just looking for a warm body
> with a pulse. They must has sent you a draft contract and figure the only
> thing you care about is the coin, or its blank because they consider you an
> LH in terms of benefits. If you would post the benefits and offer
> specifications the contributors can give you a better ana1ysis of the offer
> and how good or bad it is. I would get in touch with the foreign IT liaison
> and see about getting those blanks filled in or at least a description, as
> it is, there isnt much of a contract for you to agree too unless their
> position is "we will give you what we want, and youll like it".

@PsyGuy,

You know, I've been searching and reading your posts in the past including the recent ones that you wrote. At first, I thought of taking your advice because I presumed you are a teacher with a lot of experience but I will not take any of your advice anymore because it's quite offensive/skeptical/biased and discouraging. So unprofessional!
Since you do not know me as I provided such limited information about myself and my situation, just watch your language and keep your discouraging comments/advice to yourself, thanks!

I would like to express my appreciation to those who gave me such warm, kind and encouraging advice! I will continue to give you an update once I hear back from the school :)
straycat2019
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:38 am

Re: Seeking advice

Post by straycat2019 »

So I have been trying very hard to reach the school after receiving somewhat "incomplete" contract. But thankfully, I have managed to discuss some things with the foreign teacher's liaison and attempted to fill the blanks on the contract and this is what I have come up with so far.

Monthly Salary: NTD 80,075
Subject I'll be teaching: English
Grade level that I'll be teaching: ELA grades 7, 8, 9 and AP English courses (each class will have about 15-20 students)
Teaching hours: 20-22 hours per week
The school will provide with air fare, housing stipend and take care of visa issue for me.
The school will also provide PD.

School schedule: 8am ~ 4pm (12-1pm lunch and nap time)

'm waiting for them to hear back from them as they will provide a revised contract for me by tomorrow. I have asked the school whether I have any other duties other than teaching ELA and they said they would let me know the details.

Some thoughts at this point:

I do not have experience teaching AP English classes, but had experience teaching honor courses... and I remember I took IB English high level course back in high school and I have MA degree so I think I'll be okay...? I'm not sure.

I will have to prep for five different classes and I feel this is too much. Is this normal or typical for IS? When I used to work for a previous private school (not IS) here in Asia, I taught for 18 hours and I only had to prep for two different classes.

They have originally offered me to be a homeroom teacher, where they get to teach 16-18 hours but had to take care of administrative things (taking care of students, talking to parents, escorting them to assembly, etc.) - I thought this would be too much for me as a new teacher at a new school so I suggested just being a subject teacher (20-22 teaching hours). Being a subject teacher, I don't get to keep my own classroom though. I remember seeing other homeroom teachers in the previous school I used to work and even though these homeroom teachers teach less hours, they had so many admin things to take care of so I just assumed being subject teacher would be better. What do you think?

Any advice from experienced teachers? What else should I ask the school before signing the contract?
Thanks in advance!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@straycat2019

Will you be teaching English Literature for this 7,8, 9 class or ESOL? Are the AP classes Language and Composition or Literature and Composition. If its ESOL do they have a curriculum and a program, texts, work books, activities, etc.? How much curriculum design and planing are they expecting?
Your Masters is in TESOL, so how much of the job is literature, and how much writing do they expect? Youve never even taught anything at SLL, when an IT has to resort to "I studied X in senior school" thats wholly unprepared to teach it.

Is the housing allowance already part of the salary, or separate? Does the housing allowance require you to go into your own coin to afford rent and utilities?
Is there a health/medical care scheme?

The PD probably isnt anything more than a member of leadership having some seminar.

I dont see how there can be additional duties, 5 preps, 5 courses, an hour a day, even if they are logging your classes at 55min, youre only looking at 2 prep periods a day for 5 preps and 2 of them AP, is a very busy schedule.
Its not uncommon to have so many preps at small and lower tier ISs, or in BSs. Still its not desirable at upper tier ISs where 2-3 preps is more typical.

If your think walking students around and talking to parents is too much your going to have to talk to parents anyway, and basic child care is a lot easier for a new IT than the prep for that course load, considering how many outside hours your going to have to put in to get everything done.
teacher tan
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am

Re: Seeking advice

Post by teacher tan »

@straycat2019
I agree getting experience in teaching rigorous courses and volunteering to lead extracurriculars, such as soccer, volleyball, Model United Nations, school newspaper etc. and being on academic committees will increase your visibility and better your chances of getting a positive reference, which is not an easy thing these days.

Ask questions about health insurance, housing, and if they could reimburse your certification/PD costs. Attend any job-alikes that are available near you, network with like-minded professionals, stay in-touch to know about vacancies in those schools even before they are advertised and with your networks' permission, you could even mention their names and how you have collaborated with them professionally in your cover letters. Follow heads of schools on twitter, LinkedIn, read their blogs, comment on their posts to further your chances. Strong visibility and good word of mouth will give a nice nudge to your job application. Don't just rely on working hard quietly, it's all about selling yourself to the highest bidder in a great location.
straycat2019
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:38 am

Re: Seeking advice

Post by straycat2019 »

Thanks for all the helpful advice!

Is it just me or is it difficult or even challenging for teachers (especially the new teachers, maybe) in general to even communicate with the school? How common is it for schools to not respond to emails/answer Skype messages?

I thought, since they were willing to hire me, they have sent the contract in the first place. When I tried to ask them more questions for clarification, they just stopped responding. I know that they are celebrating the Chinese new year from Feb 2-10th but they told me they would be willing to answer my questions.

Am I just... culturally insensitive and kept bugging them with a lot of questions? Do you think they are overwhelmed by me? I feel like...they are just ignoring my questions. My questions are not difficult and if the school can't answer those questions, I think it's wise to just not even consider.

Maybe I am unfamiliar with the employment process or not knowledgeable when it comes to communicating with the schools. Can you share how IS typically hire teachers? I believe one or two Skype interviews, along with the job offer with contract and benefit package? I believe the contract should NOT have anything blank, with every fields filled accordingly. The teacher should have a room to negotiate and that would take... what, one week to even couple of weeks?

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I might as well just apply to other schools.
straycat2019
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:38 am

Re: Seeking advice

Post by straycat2019 »

For some reason, I can't edit or delete the post above, but I have managed to be in contact with the school again. I guess they are really slow at answering questions or I'm impatient. Maybe I just need to calm down.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@straycat2019

Lots of leadership do HR poorly, and it is the major holiday in Taiwan. Relax.
monkeycat
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:52 pm

Re: Seeking advice

Post by monkeycat »

Teaching 20+hrs a week with four preps (including an AP prep) sounds insane. I used to teach AP Lit and my school gave me a lighter classload because AP is a lot of extra work.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@monkeycat

5 courses, 5 days a week, thats more like 25+ hours and it could be two AP preps
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