2019 Search Associates Bangkok
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teacher tan
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
I believe in rule-based classroom management, not one-way respect. If my students are working in a science lab and they want to conduct themselves according to their own set of guidelines, I'm not sure how you are going to provide a safe learning experience. Of late, the bangwagon effect is truly taking its toll. Administrators who have been out of classroom for ages and who attend fancy workshops abroad during the summer, suddenly do a 180 degree turnaround regarding some of the most fundamental and common-sense based non-negotiable practices. That's a new low for me.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
I don't presume to speak for anyone else but maybe it wasn't the fact that classroom rules were a part of the prospective candidates answer but more that they were the first and/or most significant factor in their classroom management.
The location has rules. The school (presumably) has rules. I have rules in my classes but if you asked me about my classroom management, rules would likely be an afterthought (after establishing a positive relationship, working on a building welcoming/supportive classroom culture, maintaining a fun yet still engaging/productive learning environment, etc).
Presumably that is easier/harder with certain subjects, grade/age levels etc. but it has generally worked for me across grade levels (elementary to high school).
Maybe that type of answer would be a turn off/cop out for some admin types but would please/impress others. Luckily for me I plan on staying with my current organization for the foreseeable future so don't plan on having to interview much, if ever again. :D
The location has rules. The school (presumably) has rules. I have rules in my classes but if you asked me about my classroom management, rules would likely be an afterthought (after establishing a positive relationship, working on a building welcoming/supportive classroom culture, maintaining a fun yet still engaging/productive learning environment, etc).
Presumably that is easier/harder with certain subjects, grade/age levels etc. but it has generally worked for me across grade levels (elementary to high school).
Maybe that type of answer would be a turn off/cop out for some admin types but would please/impress others. Luckily for me I plan on staying with my current organization for the foreseeable future so don't plan on having to interview much, if ever again. :D
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
Well said, wrldt. Having rules (we all have rules) is a very different thing from basing everything on rules, as if it's possible to regulate young'ens into a team of self-managed, principled beings, highly focused on learning. As if. As for fads, well, I still remember one of my professors in my first teaching trainings, almost 30 years ago, teaching us that rules, while needed, weren't the alpha and omega, and suggesting relationships and respect as better pathways. It took me time and persistence to build my skills in this area, and it was well worth it.
I'll always remember one particular candidate. He was teaching upper primary art, and his method was to keep a log book with a huge grid - one axis all the rules, one axis all the students. At the end of each class, once the kiddos had toddled off to their homeroom teacher, he'd go through the list and put a tick for each time each student had broken a rule. He never said or did anything about behavior during class, just ticked the list at the end of class. Though he did make an important point - if a student did something naughty that wasn't in the rules, he'd make a new rule on the spot, write it in the book, and stop class to announce the new rule, e.g. "It is not allowed to take all the paint to prevent another student from getting it." I felt this was only fair.
Anyway, at the end of each month, he'd devote one lesson to having mini-conferences with each student, in which he would inform them how many times they'd broken which rules. And on report cards, he'd inform the parents the total number of infractions per semester. I can just picture it: "Samson broke the rules a total of 52 times this semester. This is an improvement over his 60 infractions last semester."
He did comment that his students were pretty poorly behaved. He thought if his colleagues would get on board with the system, things might improve, but the colleagues showed no interest and even seemed to think the students were pretty well behaved.
It was a fascinating interview. And he was teaching in Asia, in a country that is generally regarded as, shall we say, organized. A place where rules are respected.
So please, have rules. I'll not stop you. Just don't count on them for everything.
I'll always remember one particular candidate. He was teaching upper primary art, and his method was to keep a log book with a huge grid - one axis all the rules, one axis all the students. At the end of each class, once the kiddos had toddled off to their homeroom teacher, he'd go through the list and put a tick for each time each student had broken a rule. He never said or did anything about behavior during class, just ticked the list at the end of class. Though he did make an important point - if a student did something naughty that wasn't in the rules, he'd make a new rule on the spot, write it in the book, and stop class to announce the new rule, e.g. "It is not allowed to take all the paint to prevent another student from getting it." I felt this was only fair.
Anyway, at the end of each month, he'd devote one lesson to having mini-conferences with each student, in which he would inform them how many times they'd broken which rules. And on report cards, he'd inform the parents the total number of infractions per semester. I can just picture it: "Samson broke the rules a total of 52 times this semester. This is an improvement over his 60 infractions last semester."
He did comment that his students were pretty poorly behaved. He thought if his colleagues would get on board with the system, things might improve, but the colleagues showed no interest and even seemed to think the students were pretty well behaved.
It was a fascinating interview. And he was teaching in Asia, in a country that is generally regarded as, shall we say, organized. A place where rules are respected.
So please, have rules. I'll not stop you. Just don't count on them for everything.
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
shadowjack wrote:
> If you're in teaching and have X years of experience (let's say by year 4
> or 5, when you are out of the trying to save yourself from drowning to
> starting to get the beat of the teaching music) and you haven't thought
> about your pedagogical approaches, how to fit students together to maximize
> learning, how to run a classroom using essential rules, and negotiable
> ones, how to structure your subject for understanding at different levels,
> how to assess understanding on the fly and more, then I'd have concerns.
> Your answers don't need to come right away, in fact, reflecting prior to
> answering is an asset, but it should be a considered answer, not just the
> latest fad. We should be able to engage in a pedagogical discussion where
> our views might not be the same, but we actually have views.
Nicely said, SJ.
> If you're in teaching and have X years of experience (let's say by year 4
> or 5, when you are out of the trying to save yourself from drowning to
> starting to get the beat of the teaching music) and you haven't thought
> about your pedagogical approaches, how to fit students together to maximize
> learning, how to run a classroom using essential rules, and negotiable
> ones, how to structure your subject for understanding at different levels,
> how to assess understanding on the fly and more, then I'd have concerns.
> Your answers don't need to come right away, in fact, reflecting prior to
> answering is an asset, but it should be a considered answer, not just the
> latest fad. We should be able to engage in a pedagogical discussion where
> our views might not be the same, but we actually have views.
Nicely said, SJ.
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
Thames Pirate wrote:
> So do you put notes in for everyone who meets your qualifications?
>
Hard to define. Probably not everyone who just ticks the basic boxes. People with boxes PLUS something extra. People I'm eager to see, more than just people I'm willing to see. If the people with basic boxes come to our table, most likely they'll get an interview, unless we are spoiled for choice at that fair.
> Also, let's say I stand in your line for a DP English LangLit job but only
> have AP experience and lots of it. Assuming I am reasonable in your
> gatekeeper questions (whatever those might be) and vibe, do I get an
> interview?
Yep.
>
> Also, really curious about the weight you give recs. For the above
> fictional posting, do you look through all IB experienced LangLit teachers
> and pick your favourites based on CV, recs, or both and extend invites? Or
> do you extend invites without looking at recs?
Always, always, always look at recommendations. I read with a pinch of salt in both directions, but I read. Thoroughly. I note trends, the things multiple people say about you. I note hints into your personality and contributions to a team. I note anything related to the specifics of the job post - those team elements, etc.
A CV tends to tell me whether you have specific qualifications or experience in required areas - a CV is usually more about seeing if you have the basics that are needed for me to a) get you a visa, b) meet my school's reqs re minimum experience/quals, and c) show me if you've been active or inactive re getting PD and offering activities. If the CV ticks those boxes, it's your Personal Statement and references that start telling me about you as a person, how you interact with students, what you contribute to school climate and life, etc.
>
> Basically I know some schools place a higher value on years of IB
> experience. Others look beyond that, and I wonder what makes a recruiter
> look beyond that. What makes a CV stand out beyond years or a checklist of
> extracurriculars?
I hire people new to the IB every year. It's not the CV that makes me look beyond that. It's in your Personal Statement, references and your words when you visit our table, which give me hints into how you view children, approach teaching.... If everything about you suggests "traditional approach", I probably won't look further. But if you show a student-centered approach, use of inquiry, standards-based grading, etc... then maybe you'll take to the IB.
> Also, when do you look at profiles or do culling--is it
> ongoing or do you have blocks of time where you sort resumes? How often do
> you check your box? Obviously you can only speak for yourself, but since
> you are being so helpful and obliging I hope you don't mind that I keep
> asking. It provides a really good insight for the rest of us.
A bit of both. If I'm lucky enough to find a block of time, I will. But often it's a few minutes here and there. I try to allocate time. It's very productive to spend a few hours at it, and I think it gives a fairer playing field for all the candidates when I'm considering them as a group.
>
> Could you also speak to your presentation? What is your aim, what do you
> expect, what do you look for?
I want to make sure you know how we are as a school and community, so you can make sure that it's the right place for you. If our philosophies don't align, if our student body isn't what you're looking for in, you need to know. Despite all the pressure for me to hire teachers, and all the pressure for candidates to get jobs, really what matters more is finding the right match between schools and teachers. If we're not suited for each other, we should figure that out early, not after you've living here.
> So do you put notes in for everyone who meets your qualifications?
>
Hard to define. Probably not everyone who just ticks the basic boxes. People with boxes PLUS something extra. People I'm eager to see, more than just people I'm willing to see. If the people with basic boxes come to our table, most likely they'll get an interview, unless we are spoiled for choice at that fair.
> Also, let's say I stand in your line for a DP English LangLit job but only
> have AP experience and lots of it. Assuming I am reasonable in your
> gatekeeper questions (whatever those might be) and vibe, do I get an
> interview?
Yep.
>
> Also, really curious about the weight you give recs. For the above
> fictional posting, do you look through all IB experienced LangLit teachers
> and pick your favourites based on CV, recs, or both and extend invites? Or
> do you extend invites without looking at recs?
Always, always, always look at recommendations. I read with a pinch of salt in both directions, but I read. Thoroughly. I note trends, the things multiple people say about you. I note hints into your personality and contributions to a team. I note anything related to the specifics of the job post - those team elements, etc.
A CV tends to tell me whether you have specific qualifications or experience in required areas - a CV is usually more about seeing if you have the basics that are needed for me to a) get you a visa, b) meet my school's reqs re minimum experience/quals, and c) show me if you've been active or inactive re getting PD and offering activities. If the CV ticks those boxes, it's your Personal Statement and references that start telling me about you as a person, how you interact with students, what you contribute to school climate and life, etc.
>
> Basically I know some schools place a higher value on years of IB
> experience. Others look beyond that, and I wonder what makes a recruiter
> look beyond that. What makes a CV stand out beyond years or a checklist of
> extracurriculars?
I hire people new to the IB every year. It's not the CV that makes me look beyond that. It's in your Personal Statement, references and your words when you visit our table, which give me hints into how you view children, approach teaching.... If everything about you suggests "traditional approach", I probably won't look further. But if you show a student-centered approach, use of inquiry, standards-based grading, etc... then maybe you'll take to the IB.
> Also, when do you look at profiles or do culling--is it
> ongoing or do you have blocks of time where you sort resumes? How often do
> you check your box? Obviously you can only speak for yourself, but since
> you are being so helpful and obliging I hope you don't mind that I keep
> asking. It provides a really good insight for the rest of us.
A bit of both. If I'm lucky enough to find a block of time, I will. But often it's a few minutes here and there. I try to allocate time. It's very productive to spend a few hours at it, and I think it gives a fairer playing field for all the candidates when I'm considering them as a group.
>
> Could you also speak to your presentation? What is your aim, what do you
> expect, what do you look for?
I want to make sure you know how we are as a school and community, so you can make sure that it's the right place for you. If our philosophies don't align, if our student body isn't what you're looking for in, you need to know. Despite all the pressure for me to hire teachers, and all the pressure for candidates to get jobs, really what matters more is finding the right match between schools and teachers. If we're not suited for each other, we should figure that out early, not after you've living here.
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falloutmike
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:06 am
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
Better late than never, but another fair review!
Before hand
-Had about 7-8 emails from schools, but only 1 or 2 with decent packages worth looking at or that weren't a step down.
-I emailed all hopefuls a few weeks and a week before as well. Only one got back to me.
-This was my "be picky" year, I didn't need to leave by wanted to see what my options were and if I could "step up" into a bigger/better school.
Day before
Arrived late the night before, too nervous to sleep much anyway. Stayed real close to avoid the high fees and to make sure I got out and about.
Day 1 - Thursday
-Woke up and headed to the hotel
-Submitting resumes. I was focused on 2-3 countries and about 8 schools. This did take longer than expected, so do get there on time. Or the night before if possible (not sure when it opens).
-I enjoyed this time as it was also a great time to met new people.
-I would use the yellow slips vs my own as I feel they are busy and having it all be the same helps them find info faster, as they just have the 1 hour while we are at orientation, depending on if they pick up things throughout the morning.
- Definitely keep moving around the room for new posters, some were not posted until the last 30 minutes.
- They had some free coffee!
- I checked my mailboxes - 2 requests but not areas I was interested in, and one from my dream school!!!
Orientation - Overall nothing new but good to know the layout.
Interview sign up
-I was expecting this to be much crazier than expected, do not rush, you really do have PLENTY of time. A few schools had longer lines but did move pretty quick.
-My top 4 schools all kept my resume and had it on the table which felt good
-Got 2 more interviews by giving my resume at the table
- 2-3 I stopped by just to see, and they all said no. So things worked on in my favor.
+Print plenty of resumes I have 8 or so before and most took a second copy, although not sure why.
-I also had cover letters for my top schools, not sure if it helped but were ready anywhere for when I applied online.
-My 1-2 min into was much shorter in the beginning as I was excited/wanted to get first dibs which didn't make a difference, plus they kept my resume anyway so were there to mostly just schedule and interview.
- I got to cut the line at my dream school which had a big line which was great as they gave me an interview request.
Lunch
Tons of food that was all quite good, a mix of everything. I got to meet a few people which was nice and to hear some opinions about some other schools.
After lunch
I was free so went up to the lounge to meet some new people and hang out while hearing about other travels. Then went home and relaxed.
Day 2 - Friday
-Had all initial interviews today, besides one the next day.
-All went really well and felt more like conversations than interviews.
-Dream school interview went well and felt like we made a good connection. -They then emailed later in the day for an interview the next day.
-One told me I was shortlisted but had to talk with admin.
-One told me I was also shortlisted and would arrange a Skype when they get back.
-Others just said thank you, and would let you know.
Presentations
-They were nice, nothing too new if you did your research. It's great to get a sense of the admin though and if they seem to actually know what they are doing, as well as what it may be like to work for them.
-Also made me realize they are people just like us and not as intimidating as I sometimes make it out to be.
-I thought they would be way busier, they had between 10-25/30 people. They rush the schools in and out, but you have some time before or after to chat with them, but more hey how's it going than to promote yourself.
Dinner
Had a nice dinner outside to reflect and take it all in. I had two interviews the next day.
Day 3 - Saturday
Had my dream school interview but this time with different staff and felt great.
Had another interview at a school who wouldn't know for 2 more weeks (but my current school won't wait that long as they are on their way to S.A. London.) She loved me and wished it would have been able to work out, so that was a nice confidence boost.
-Ended the day getting a call back and offered my dream job!!! Was a reach and can't believe it is now a reality!!!
Dinner
Went out to celebrate with a mate I had met along the way, finally got to kick back and try some street food that took so much restraint from the previous days.
Day 4 - Sunday
I had to leave mid day, I was nervous I would miss out but seemed 80-90% of the fair is done by Saturday evening. So don't worry if you have to miss Sunday.
Tips for candidates
-Check the dates on the table printout for the interview sign up sheet, many people got dates mixed up.
-Write in the presentations ahead of time, then you can organize your interviews around those so you don't miss them. I had to miss 2 presentations.
-Talk to the advisors, but again they can't really say anything bad about certain schools, but was nice to just let out your feelings to get everything straight in your head about what you want.
-It seems most schools do one interview which really surprised me, I guess some have some follow ups via skype after though.
-As mentioned before, don't feel too intimidated by tier 1 schools. I used to think all those teachers just get passed around. Although most people I met who got jobs at such schools were able to take a step up.
++The biggest take away is that there is no method to the madness. I scored a huge win from a great school, but got rejected from my lowest picks. It is all about what they are looking for, timing, or maybe just the way you walk and talk. Totally give every school a shot even if you think it may be out of reach.
tips for SA.
- Ive been to some PD where they set up meeting times for people interested in different topics/age levels etc. Felt like that would have been helpful.
- I was able to meet some really nice people and passed out my business card, although wish I would have added more via Facebook or Linkedin.
Before hand
-Had about 7-8 emails from schools, but only 1 or 2 with decent packages worth looking at or that weren't a step down.
-I emailed all hopefuls a few weeks and a week before as well. Only one got back to me.
-This was my "be picky" year, I didn't need to leave by wanted to see what my options were and if I could "step up" into a bigger/better school.
Day before
Arrived late the night before, too nervous to sleep much anyway. Stayed real close to avoid the high fees and to make sure I got out and about.
Day 1 - Thursday
-Woke up and headed to the hotel
-Submitting resumes. I was focused on 2-3 countries and about 8 schools. This did take longer than expected, so do get there on time. Or the night before if possible (not sure when it opens).
-I enjoyed this time as it was also a great time to met new people.
-I would use the yellow slips vs my own as I feel they are busy and having it all be the same helps them find info faster, as they just have the 1 hour while we are at orientation, depending on if they pick up things throughout the morning.
- Definitely keep moving around the room for new posters, some were not posted until the last 30 minutes.
- They had some free coffee!
- I checked my mailboxes - 2 requests but not areas I was interested in, and one from my dream school!!!
Orientation - Overall nothing new but good to know the layout.
Interview sign up
-I was expecting this to be much crazier than expected, do not rush, you really do have PLENTY of time. A few schools had longer lines but did move pretty quick.
-My top 4 schools all kept my resume and had it on the table which felt good
-Got 2 more interviews by giving my resume at the table
- 2-3 I stopped by just to see, and they all said no. So things worked on in my favor.
+Print plenty of resumes I have 8 or so before and most took a second copy, although not sure why.
-I also had cover letters for my top schools, not sure if it helped but were ready anywhere for when I applied online.
-My 1-2 min into was much shorter in the beginning as I was excited/wanted to get first dibs which didn't make a difference, plus they kept my resume anyway so were there to mostly just schedule and interview.
- I got to cut the line at my dream school which had a big line which was great as they gave me an interview request.
Lunch
Tons of food that was all quite good, a mix of everything. I got to meet a few people which was nice and to hear some opinions about some other schools.
After lunch
I was free so went up to the lounge to meet some new people and hang out while hearing about other travels. Then went home and relaxed.
Day 2 - Friday
-Had all initial interviews today, besides one the next day.
-All went really well and felt more like conversations than interviews.
-Dream school interview went well and felt like we made a good connection. -They then emailed later in the day for an interview the next day.
-One told me I was shortlisted but had to talk with admin.
-One told me I was also shortlisted and would arrange a Skype when they get back.
-Others just said thank you, and would let you know.
Presentations
-They were nice, nothing too new if you did your research. It's great to get a sense of the admin though and if they seem to actually know what they are doing, as well as what it may be like to work for them.
-Also made me realize they are people just like us and not as intimidating as I sometimes make it out to be.
-I thought they would be way busier, they had between 10-25/30 people. They rush the schools in and out, but you have some time before or after to chat with them, but more hey how's it going than to promote yourself.
Dinner
Had a nice dinner outside to reflect and take it all in. I had two interviews the next day.
Day 3 - Saturday
Had my dream school interview but this time with different staff and felt great.
Had another interview at a school who wouldn't know for 2 more weeks (but my current school won't wait that long as they are on their way to S.A. London.) She loved me and wished it would have been able to work out, so that was a nice confidence boost.
-Ended the day getting a call back and offered my dream job!!! Was a reach and can't believe it is now a reality!!!
Dinner
Went out to celebrate with a mate I had met along the way, finally got to kick back and try some street food that took so much restraint from the previous days.
Day 4 - Sunday
I had to leave mid day, I was nervous I would miss out but seemed 80-90% of the fair is done by Saturday evening. So don't worry if you have to miss Sunday.
Tips for candidates
-Check the dates on the table printout for the interview sign up sheet, many people got dates mixed up.
-Write in the presentations ahead of time, then you can organize your interviews around those so you don't miss them. I had to miss 2 presentations.
-Talk to the advisors, but again they can't really say anything bad about certain schools, but was nice to just let out your feelings to get everything straight in your head about what you want.
-It seems most schools do one interview which really surprised me, I guess some have some follow ups via skype after though.
-As mentioned before, don't feel too intimidated by tier 1 schools. I used to think all those teachers just get passed around. Although most people I met who got jobs at such schools were able to take a step up.
++The biggest take away is that there is no method to the madness. I scored a huge win from a great school, but got rejected from my lowest picks. It is all about what they are looking for, timing, or maybe just the way you walk and talk. Totally give every school a shot even if you think it may be out of reach.
tips for SA.
- Ive been to some PD where they set up meeting times for people interested in different topics/age levels etc. Felt like that would have been helpful.
- I was able to meet some really nice people and passed out my business card, although wish I would have added more via Facebook or Linkedin.
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
Congratulations! Well done you!
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
Great synopsis of the fair - and congratulations to you too!
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
Thanks for the insight! Sid, thank you for your honest answers. You are the type of administrator I love and would want to work for (thankfully I have that currently, too). I appreciate your willingness to give us your perspective and a bit about what you are looking for. I think the one thing I would change at this point is to ask for feedback; it can't hurt (assuming it's done politely, etc.) and could help a lot.
Fallout et al., thanks for your reports. Congrats on the jobs!
Fallout et al., thanks for your reports. Congrats on the jobs!
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teacher tan
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
One lesson I learned early-on is not to get carried away by the outward sweet-talk and niceties of the admin. They won't blink an eye to do the opposite behind your back. Actions matter. If they can't write a reference on time, don't involve themselves actively to address pedagogical problems, keep their doors shut and while away their time on twitter and LinkedIn, put more focus on sport than academics, they are of little value to the community. Don't hesitate to say 'No' to these folks.
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
TT, it would seem you have worked with some low-quality admin. I wish you the best in finding a better place.
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teacher tan
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
sid, appreciate your thoughts. Sadly, that is the state of affairs at the so-called elite school I'm working at. For any given vacancy, we receive an extraordinary interest, but things haven't changed much on the ground. Incompetence and cronyism rule the roost.
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
@falloutmike
congrats!! and great summary of fair. Appreciate you taking the time to write it.
congrats!! and great summary of fair. Appreciate you taking the time to write it.
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
Sorry, For Boston Fair next week - a question on dropping off a couple CVs the night before. I decided I will do the Ichiro - can't hurt and it's a short summary - I'm going for it! Should I attach a small note to the CV/Ichiro introducing myself and expressing interest in what position I am interested in or do I keep it neutral and just state would like to have an interview for a primary position....... Should the small note be a note card of sorts???
Thank you in advance.
Thank you in advance.
Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok
falloutmike wrote:
> -Ended the day getting a call back and offered my dream job!!! Was a reach
> and can't believe it is now a reality!!!
That was a great review! I remember from one of your previous posts that you had been aiming for Singapore or Thailand. Which one is the dream school in?
> -Ended the day getting a call back and offered my dream job!!! Was a reach
> and can't believe it is now a reality!!!
That was a great review! I remember from one of your previous posts that you had been aiming for Singapore or Thailand. Which one is the dream school in?