2019 Search Associates Bangkok

PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@expatscot

The SA Leadership fair is in November.
monkeycat
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:52 pm

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by monkeycat »

PsyGuy, thank you for your observations. We'll just have to disagree on some points. I don't see the point of taking a deliberately negative view of certain situations. Job fairs are stressful enough as it is. It's true that interviews mean little if you don't get the job offer, but the reason why a job offer is made to one person and not another is influenced by a lot of variables (and I say this from the point of view of someone who has been involved in the hiring process on the other end). Maybe they already had a top pick and were just jerking us around, but maybe they were actually looking for the best fit. You can't really know that as a candidate, and from my point of view you might as well take what encouragement you can get.

I suppose it's possible that a school will waste your time for whatever reason, but I'd like to think that schools wouldn't want to waste their own time if at all possible. Again, how do you know if it's going to be a waste of time or not? You just have to put yourself out there and hope for the best.

When we peeked at the school folders the night before Day 1, they were almost completely empty. It wasn't until the morning of Day 1 that people started putting resumes in. Some schools had obviously gone through their resume stacks before sign up, but others hadn't.

The initial email we got prior to the fair was one asking us for an interview. It was very clear.

Also there is no more social hour at the SA Bangkok Fair. For whatever reason, it's not part of the schedule any more.

The biggest problem with the current schedule of school presentations being held after the sign up is that a lot of people have interviews scheduled during that time, so it's very difficult for candidates to get to presentations as well as juggling interviews (although maybe the presentations are aimed at people who weren't able to get interviews at sign up, I don't know).
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by sid »

Thanks monkeycat. Really a nice summary and - of the fair.
I was there as a recruiter, and I feel you hit the nail on the head with most things.
Yes, interviews matter. I wouldn't interview you if I weren't interested. And people really do lose out on jobs because of external factors like already hiring one IB newbie for the department. I am a big proponent of hiring people new to the IB, because we all were new to the IB once. But I have one unique position this year that absolutely requires someone with significant IB experience. I have another position that requires a certain personality, to balance out existing personalities in the department. No matter how great a teacher you are, I can't consider you for that post unless you have certain key personality factors. So often, our decision about who gets a job come down to looking at 2 or 3 people, any of whom would be good at it. So we have to look beyond that basic threshold, and pick the single candidate who has some other factor, whatever that might be. It's no insult to the other candidates, though of course it does have a very personal and real impact on their career options.
And please do put your notes into the folders as early as you can. It's true, we're sitting up late the night before going through all the available info, and one key piece is looking at people who have expressed interest. It's well worth my time to look at candidates who want to come to my school, before I try to convince someone whose interests lie elsewhere.
A recruiter's fair can be just as stressful. Every candidate who turns us down, who doesn't respond to our note asking for an interview, who cancels an interview because they're accepted a job before even meeting with us... they all take a toll.
For the record, as a recruiter I always answer any note from a candidate, always give feedback if it's requested, always wish you the best of luck. I wish for all recruiters (and candidates) to do the same. Being polite is free, and takes just a little time. As monkeycat points out, it's a small world. You never know when we'll cross paths again.
Best wishes with your continued search.
As for me, I'm doing it all over again in London. Just need to get a good night's sleep first.
Kmf1978
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 9:37 am

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by Kmf1978 »

Thanks for posting this. My husband is going to the London fair next week looking for a admin position and this information is giving him some idea of what to expect and how to prepare.
Good luck with your applications:)
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by Thames Pirate »

Thanks, Monkeycat and Sid!

It's always helpful to hear about both sides of an issue. I know there are some cynics who think unsuccessful interviews were never real to begin with, but that has not been my experience. We have had interviews where partway through it was clear things were not working. We have had interviews where afterwards we talk about things and decide that even though we liked everything the school said, we just didn't feel like the job was the direction we wanted. And we have had interviews where we were clearly an afterthought, scheduled to ensure a back up.

I have rarely felt that a recruiter was intentionally stringing us along and have generally found them to be upfront and helpful. I have also found that making their job easier makes my fair less stressful. It's helpful to hear your side of it, Sid--and get some rest!

The Search reps are often less helpful, but mainly because there are so many unknowns that there are a lot of questions they can't answer. But you can read between the lines there as well.

I cannot stress enough how helpful it has been for us to really make an effort to know and understand the school before the interview. We can ask better questions and find out if it really is a good fit on our end or if there are underlying issues or opportunities that are not necessarily quantifiable but might be deal breakers or makers. It boggles my mind that someone would go to an interview without having looked up some basics about the school.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

ITs are not very dissimilar from one another. In the vast majority of cases the deciding factor isnt some large number of indescribable variables, its 'fit'.

Assuming your reason for attending the fair is a job offer, than the criterion by which success or failure of that is measured is offers. Interviews dont count, they dont matter. There is no prize, or award for most number of interviews, there is no stipend or salary that comes with having a large number of interviews, interviews dont provide comp. Any other feelings is your bat poop ego creating justifications a, rationals, and excuses to counter effect the negative feelings you have about the lack of outcomes and the resources and effort expended, thats your mammalian brains biochemistry talking not data.

The issue is what does the fairs attendance post fair, effect future or potential offers. Your getting a once a year opportunity to sit down F2F with recruiters and leadership and impress them.

They make take a toll on @Sid (oh woo is them the lose of another candidate disappearing over the horizon, the anguish) and for the other recruiters and leadership they dont give a poo, and are forgotten and dismissed as wishes on the wind. Then theres the group, that personally enjoys rejecting candidates for the ego stroking the power gives them.

@monkeycat

When would presentations be scheduled, there isnt time before signup and everyone is getting set up and ready, at the end of the fair when everyone is gone? Yes some candidates and recruiters have interviews and some dont, some recruiters are hoping to get more candidates and some candidates are hoping to get more interviews and thats got to occur at time that still leaves the opportunity to schedule interviews and doesnt cut into high priority pre-signup preparation.
expatscot
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:26 am

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by expatscot »

@psyguy - so it is, I was getting confused....!

Reading these comments - does anyone actually enjoy these things? I've been lucky in that I've never been to one and, by the sounds of it, if I can avoid it I will. "Meat market" is the phrase which springs to mind.

@sid - it would be good if you were able to give some comments on the London one too as it goes on, though, as it's useful for us mere mortals to get some insight into the mind of the recruiter!
Illiane_Blues

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by Illiane_Blues »

Great to read, thanks @monkeycat!

I'm quite sure recruiters won't interview you if they're already 100% sure they won't hire you.
Why waste time if they're a 100% sure they won't hire you, it's not like they need the practice or would do it out of pity.
Surely it's not professional civility.

Of course they might only need a backup, but at least that means that they think you might be good enough to hire if everything else falls through, while they're waiting and hoping for better. They don't grant everyone an interview, so you know you're more suitable than other in their view, if it's a decent school that gets enough candidates stopping by.

So if I thought I was not very competitive, and a good school interviewed me which I thought was out of reach, I would consider that at least a sign that I'm more hireable than I thought I was.

Yes, only offers and signed contracts matter in the end, but getting interviews with schools tells you that those schools at least thought you would be someone they could hire. Of course the interview might have changed their minds, but that might be because you're not great in interviews yet, but you can work on that, and it could just be that their first choice said yes or any other reason really.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@expatscot

I enjoy them, more as a candidate than recruiter, but recently the times i attended was a candidate I was there mainly for the interviews themselves. My visits as a recruiter were always stressful, thats the difference between going there with work to do, and going as an activity.

Casting call would be my descriptor, but meat market isnt inaccurate.

@Illiane_Blues

Actually some need practice, inexperienced recruiters and leadership that attend use a number of interviews to practice on. Sometimes people get interviews out of pity, because you dont want to alienate them for when 5 years in the future you actually are interested in them. The other scenario is when the leadership or the recruiter needs to meet some specific requirement of interviewing X number of candidates for a position either by policy or directive, in which case the recruiter/leadership has their recommendation and they just need to pad the documentation with some inferior interviewees.

Thats just your rationalization process to make your mammalian brain feel better.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by sid »

PsyGuy wrote:
> My visits as a recruiter were always stressful, thats the difference between going
> there with work to do, and going as an activity.
>
I believe your phrase was "oh woe is you"?
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Reply

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

PsyGuy wrote:
> Thats just your rationalization process to make your mammalian brain feel better.
=================
There seems to be a lot of that around here.
Illiane_Blues

Re: Reply

Post by Illiane_Blues »

> Actually some need practice, inexperienced recruiters and leadership that
> attend use a number of interviews to practice on. Sometimes people get
> interviews out of pity, because you dont want to alienate them for when 5
> years in the future you actually are interested in them. The other scenario
> is when the leadership or the recruiter needs to meet some specific
> requirement of interviewing X number of candidates for a position either by
> policy or directive, in which case the recruiter/leadership has their
> recommendation and they just need to pad the documentation with some
> inferior interviewees.

Maybe someone who is actually a recruiter can confirm or deny this?
I don't think they would interview anyone they know for sure (100%) they would never hire.
But perhaps I'm wrong and they do spend their limited time at the fair interviewing people they would never ever consider, I'm not a recruiter.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by sid »

wrldtrvlr123 wrote:
> Maybe someone who is actually a recruiter can confirm or deny this?
> I don't think they would interview anyone they know for sure (100%) they would never
> hire.
> But perhaps I'm wrong and they do spend their limited time at the fair interviewing
> people they would never ever consider, I'm not a recruiter.
You're absolutely right. I've never known a recruiter to interview someone they knew in advance they wouldn't hire. Sometimes we find out in the interview that we wouldn't hire the person - isn't that what interviews are for? - but we don't go in knowing in advance that it's a no.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by Thames Pirate »

Sid, what are some red flags for you (on a resume, in the short pitch, or in an interview)? What catches your attention positively? Also, when you are looking at fit, are there concrete things (HOD hates this method) or is it more a gut thing? Thanks for your insights!
teacher tan
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:49 am

Re: 2019 Search Associates Bangkok

Post by teacher tan »

A s a department head at a tier 1 school, I interviewed with my principal and here are a few red flags:

a. The candidate doesn't have a deep conceptual knowledge about the subject, hence haven't advised students on extended essays in a few years, doing the bare minimum, average exam results.
b. Narrow instructional focus
c. Half-hearted commitment to the overall school life
d. Not being open to feedback - complains more about fellow teachers and current school than looking inwards
e. Provides vague textbook answers to interview questions, doesn't relate to professional experiences
f. No evidence of recent PD, even if attended no sign of trying new strategies in the classroom
g. No extracurricular offerings
h. Poor people skills
Post Reply