New to the forum here.
Can you actually save working and living in Monaco even if you are in a leadership position? Thanks.
Monaco
Response
Save in regards to what?
Actually it doesnt matter the answer is no, not and maintain any type of lifestyle or quality of life. You can if you want to live somewhat of a monks/hermits existence or just socialize with the local service industry, but any kind of western social life will leave you broke fast, even keeping a modest western lifestyle is grossly overpriced in Monaco. There just isnt a lot of space, and everything comes don to space, and a modest casual clothing shop costs as much as a high end luxury designer clothing shop, and thats the same with housing, etc.
Actually it doesnt matter the answer is no, not and maintain any type of lifestyle or quality of life. You can if you want to live somewhat of a monks/hermits existence or just socialize with the local service industry, but any kind of western social life will leave you broke fast, even keeping a modest western lifestyle is grossly overpriced in Monaco. There just isnt a lot of space, and everything comes don to space, and a modest casual clothing shop costs as much as a high end luxury designer clothing shop, and thats the same with housing, etc.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Monaco
Sure, if you are cautious and live in France, not Monaco. But, like elsewhere in Europe, you won't be saving the big bucks.
Comment
I concur with @Thames Pirate that your savings potential goes up living in France as opposed to Monaco (and your still not saving a lot, but since you asked about living in Monaco that was the position from which i responded. Of course this is also further mediated by just how nice the leadership package is, if youve got a platinum package, than you may very well have a very nice standard of living and savings even living in Monaco.
Re: Monaco
With dwindling pensions and low savings, Europe may not be a safe bet. Some of my former colleagues get a monthly pension of 1000- Euros even after working for over two decades. Thames Pirate might disagree, but facts are facts.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Monaco
Why would I disagree with your friend's pension?
Re: Monaco
I meant you are a strong advocate of European pensions for teachers and things on the ground ain't as rosy as folks imagine.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Monaco
I just advocate that people ensure they inform themselves. European pensions can, if you actually collect them, make up a bit (not all, but some) for the lack of cash savings. More significantly, you can often cash them out if you are leaving Europe, but people often don't know and subsequently don't collect either upon retirement or upon departure. 1000 Euros/month isn't much, but when people talk about savings in Europe if you add in that 12,000/year to what you may have saved it suddenly becomes more appealing than the cash amounts. Even if it's 700/month you're still effectively adding 8400 to your annual savings. If people say they want schools where they can save 10K /year, you can do that well enough in Europe if you factor in even reduced pensions. Not the Saudi 30K, but the numbers aren't as bad as one might have thought.
I have never said it's a lot--just that in countries with lesser or less stable pensions, you will have to make that difference up in cash. People in IT tend to go with the starting position that cash savings are the only kind, so I just put out there that this is a factor. Beyond that everyone needs to figure out their own finances.
I have never said it's a lot--just that in countries with lesser or less stable pensions, you will have to make that difference up in cash. People in IT tend to go with the starting position that cash savings are the only kind, so I just put out there that this is a factor. Beyond that everyone needs to figure out their own finances.
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teacher tan
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Re: Monaco
Thanks both. Does anyone have first-hand info about monthly pensions if one works for 25-30 years at a tier 1 school in W.Europe (Belgium, France, Germany, Holland etc.) Thanks.
Reply
@teacher tan
Yes, some ITs get pensions that seem pitiful, a EU€1K isnt a lot until you consider that salaries in some parts of the EU that are only EU€2K, and ITs have to live on that. There are of course those who get substantially more than that, the EU is pretty big there is a lot of variation. My position has been much like @Thames Pirate that if your a savings poor IT, who hasnt saved much if anything or planed for much of retirement, the EU is where you need to go and bee so that you can bank a pension because your not going to find one in Asia that doesnt involve you essentially doing it yourself with your own coin.
Id suggest looking up those national pension schemes for those regions, there not secret or hidden.
Yes, some ITs get pensions that seem pitiful, a EU€1K isnt a lot until you consider that salaries in some parts of the EU that are only EU€2K, and ITs have to live on that. There are of course those who get substantially more than that, the EU is pretty big there is a lot of variation. My position has been much like @Thames Pirate that if your a savings poor IT, who hasnt saved much if anything or planed for much of retirement, the EU is where you need to go and bee so that you can bank a pension because your not going to find one in Asia that doesnt involve you essentially doing it yourself with your own coin.
Id suggest looking up those national pension schemes for those regions, there not secret or hidden.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Monaco
Most European pensions are based on how long and how much you pay in, so moving there late in your career because you didn't save wisely in Asia is not going to work. Expecting to live on just your pension is also not the best plan. But in Europe if you save 5K/year plus factor in 12K in what your pensions will amount to, suddenly the number seems like a good amount comparable to saving 17K in cash at a school in a country with no real pension. Or you cash it out for half of that and you still walk away with over 10K in cash savings. Obviously the math is not that simple, but you get the idea. It's why I don't get when people moan about the lack of savings in Europe.
Reply
@Thames Pirate
This is generally true, you get more in pension the longer you contribute, but most of those EU countries also have minimum pensions and some of them have very short vesting times. Germany for example is 60 months (5 years) once you reach retirement age (65, moving too 67), if you have 60 months of contributions or contributing time in other sanctioned activities (such as child rearing) you would qualify for a pension. Its not huge but its a lot more than Asia or the LCSA (outside the little tigers) will give you which is zero, and even a small EU€1000/mth (EU€12K/yr) can be worth a lot if you only need 5 years of service for a lifetime pension. Even then it doesnt factor in the other social insurance such as the cost of medical/health care which Asia or the LCSA (again, outside the little tigers) will give you which is nothing, and if there is something its not going to be to the standard of western medicine and care westerners would be accustomed too and expect. All of which is still a lot better than some IT whos past 50 and doesnt have anything in retirement, for which a modest pension for 5 years is a lot better than having to fund the entire of retirement with ones own coin and starting at zero.
This is generally true, you get more in pension the longer you contribute, but most of those EU countries also have minimum pensions and some of them have very short vesting times. Germany for example is 60 months (5 years) once you reach retirement age (65, moving too 67), if you have 60 months of contributions or contributing time in other sanctioned activities (such as child rearing) you would qualify for a pension. Its not huge but its a lot more than Asia or the LCSA (outside the little tigers) will give you which is zero, and even a small EU€1000/mth (EU€12K/yr) can be worth a lot if you only need 5 years of service for a lifetime pension. Even then it doesnt factor in the other social insurance such as the cost of medical/health care which Asia or the LCSA (again, outside the little tigers) will give you which is nothing, and if there is something its not going to be to the standard of western medicine and care westerners would be accustomed too and expect. All of which is still a lot better than some IT whos past 50 and doesnt have anything in retirement, for which a modest pension for 5 years is a lot better than having to fund the entire of retirement with ones own coin and starting at zero.
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teacher tan
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Re: Monaco
I was wondering how much pension one can get if you stay put for 25-30 years at a tier 1 school in the countries mentioned above. I am sure it'd be more than a 1000- Euros. Anyone with first-hand information?? I did my research, but couldn't find any data.
Reply
@teacher tan
Im sorry its so hard to give just a generic answer. Regions vary greatly, and even within a country a particular IT would have the state mandatory pension, a mandatory or optional union/sector/profession pension scheme, an optional company/organizational scheme and various independent/personal retirement account options. Its also less about your time and more about how much you contribute for a certain period of time.
To give you some very broad generalizations, the maximum benefit tends to be around 80% of the average net salary contributions, collectible at 65, plus health/medical care and other social benefits. Just giving you really rough numbers, an IT or Leadership making EU€90K/yr after 33% taxes would have about EU€60K and their pension benefit would be around EU€50K/yr, or about EU€4K/mth.
When i was in Italy, our Deputy HOS retired, and his pension was about EU€4K/mth and he had considerably less than 25 years, but also had a company pension scheme as part of his leadership package and had a municipal pension benefit from when he was in the classroom. His three daughters Uni education wiped out their savings, he also had some property rental income and a small pension from his HOR, but this was a substantial reduction in coin for him considering he no longer received housing (as part of his OSH leadership package) or other allowances.
Im sorry its so hard to give just a generic answer. Regions vary greatly, and even within a country a particular IT would have the state mandatory pension, a mandatory or optional union/sector/profession pension scheme, an optional company/organizational scheme and various independent/personal retirement account options. Its also less about your time and more about how much you contribute for a certain period of time.
To give you some very broad generalizations, the maximum benefit tends to be around 80% of the average net salary contributions, collectible at 65, plus health/medical care and other social benefits. Just giving you really rough numbers, an IT or Leadership making EU€90K/yr after 33% taxes would have about EU€60K and their pension benefit would be around EU€50K/yr, or about EU€4K/mth.
When i was in Italy, our Deputy HOS retired, and his pension was about EU€4K/mth and he had considerably less than 25 years, but also had a company pension scheme as part of his leadership package and had a municipal pension benefit from when he was in the classroom. His three daughters Uni education wiped out their savings, he also had some property rental income and a small pension from his HOR, but this was a substantial reduction in coin for him considering he no longer received housing (as part of his OSH leadership package) or other allowances.
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Thames Pirate
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- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Thames Pirate
>
> but most of those EU countries also have minimum pensions and some of them
> have very short vesting times. Germany for example is 60 months (5 years)
> and even a small EU€1000/mth (EU€12K/yr) can be worth a lot if you
> only need 5 years of service for a lifetime pension.
Nope. Germany does not have a minimum pension. So while you can be vested in the German system after 5 years, your pension is calculated based on what you pay in, not some minimum that you get simply for ending your career in Germany. Your pension for 5 years at 75000 Euros is probably around 300/month. Not a lot. The rest you'd need to supplement with your own savings from prior gigs. If you are in Germany longer, obviously that number changes. It's calculated based on what you pay in with allowances for maternity, unemployment, etc, most of which apply to locals and not temporary residents.
But it does vary significantly by region or country, so giving an answer is nearly impossible.
> @Thames Pirate
>
> but most of those EU countries also have minimum pensions and some of them
> have very short vesting times. Germany for example is 60 months (5 years)
> and even a small EU€1000/mth (EU€12K/yr) can be worth a lot if you
> only need 5 years of service for a lifetime pension.
Nope. Germany does not have a minimum pension. So while you can be vested in the German system after 5 years, your pension is calculated based on what you pay in, not some minimum that you get simply for ending your career in Germany. Your pension for 5 years at 75000 Euros is probably around 300/month. Not a lot. The rest you'd need to supplement with your own savings from prior gigs. If you are in Germany longer, obviously that number changes. It's calculated based on what you pay in with allowances for maternity, unemployment, etc, most of which apply to locals and not temporary residents.
But it does vary significantly by region or country, so giving an answer is nearly impossible.