Hi all
I'm currently looking for my first international teaching job after four years teaching with a central goal of saving a lot of money and working in an IB school. Getting into a very high school straight out like this without IB experience is very unlikely from what I can see, and I'm trying work out a stepping stone to get there.
There are a lot of Chinese public schools that offer international qualifications to their students (AP, IBDP, Cambridge) and also provide good packages for international teachers to save, such as Beijing National Day School.
I haven't seen much on this specifically regarding working at public/national Chinese schools with 99% local students teaching exclusively AP or IB, but curious what others have heard/seen on this and how this might affect future applications for higher tier international schools?
Many thanks!
Teaching at a public school in China (Beijing)?
Response
The general rule is that starting at third tier an IT can move up a tier or over (laterally) to a more desirable location/region with each contract, recruiting cycle. Typically ITs start in the third tier (which is pretty big) and has has a bottom a middle and a top (top third tier ISs are 'floater' ISs, it takes a lot of work and resources to 'push' into the second tier, and not nearly as many to move within the tier). Some ITs start relatively high in the third tier, some dont (and some skip the third tier for something higher to begin with).
The scenario you describe an IS thats really just a Chinese DS with an 'academy' (an 'academy' is an IS within an IS or DS, typically one that offers an international or western program, and generally delivered in English or another language different from the host L1 language). Usually these types of academies in China are on the low end of the third tier, aside from the student demographics, these ISs are typically resourced as local DSs are and are managed by local host nationals with their leadership and management styles. This usually results in conflict for ITs, skewed work expectations, etc. Usually the OSh package is of lower standards, the housing tends to be inferior, and the health/medical plan tends to be more restrictive. These IS academies generally have a revolving door in attrition and maturation for faculty, and the experience tends to have a higher probability of being a train wreck.
It can also be a really easy appointment, you may be left alone to do what you want with little oversight or mentoring. As long as you give high marks and grades no one will care. The students tend to be a little more respectful, as they are a little less spoiled (parents tend not to be either little fish or big fish). most of them are trying to get their childs English high enough with a strong enough application to get into a Uni in the West. You can basically do very little as long as your not late, and dont have absences and just pick up your coin.
The scenario you describe an IS thats really just a Chinese DS with an 'academy' (an 'academy' is an IS within an IS or DS, typically one that offers an international or western program, and generally delivered in English or another language different from the host L1 language). Usually these types of academies in China are on the low end of the third tier, aside from the student demographics, these ISs are typically resourced as local DSs are and are managed by local host nationals with their leadership and management styles. This usually results in conflict for ITs, skewed work expectations, etc. Usually the OSh package is of lower standards, the housing tends to be inferior, and the health/medical plan tends to be more restrictive. These IS academies generally have a revolving door in attrition and maturation for faculty, and the experience tends to have a higher probability of being a train wreck.
It can also be a really easy appointment, you may be left alone to do what you want with little oversight or mentoring. As long as you give high marks and grades no one will care. The students tend to be a little more respectful, as they are a little less spoiled (parents tend not to be either little fish or big fish). most of them are trying to get their childs English high enough with a strong enough application to get into a Uni in the West. You can basically do very little as long as your not late, and dont have absences and just pick up your coin.
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Teaching at a public school in China (Beijing)?
It's not the jackpot, but if you put in 2 or 3 years and get experience teaching IB, AP, or GCSE, then it will help you leverage a better job later. Besides air pollution and bad traffic, Beijing can be a decent place for the short term. Cost of living will vary depending on how international your lifestyle is because you can eat inexpensively if you don't mind eating dumplings or noodles for dinner.
I've known people to hit upper tier schools after coming from these schools if they're in high need areas or they may need an intermediary first. A lot of it depends on getting teaching experience for IB/AP/GCSE courses.
A lot of the times the management at these schools is very local in nature. For instance, you may not know your exact holidays until a few weeks before when the government sets it down. The better of these schools are decent, but new ones or schools in smaller cities can be pretty awful. If you go with one that's been around for 5 or 10 years in Beijing it should be okay.
Oh, and make sure you play nice with colleagues, and network at conferences and training events that you go to. Having friends that put in a good work for you at good schools when you leave is huge. If people don't respect you and/or think you're hard to get along with they're not going to advocate for you. I've known people stuck at mid-tier schools, who are good teachers, but miss out on the issue that former colleagues can help or hurt your chances. I've backed people and gave warnings to admins at my schools when they were considering people I've worked with previously.
Good luck.
Eion
I've known people to hit upper tier schools after coming from these schools if they're in high need areas or they may need an intermediary first. A lot of it depends on getting teaching experience for IB/AP/GCSE courses.
A lot of the times the management at these schools is very local in nature. For instance, you may not know your exact holidays until a few weeks before when the government sets it down. The better of these schools are decent, but new ones or schools in smaller cities can be pretty awful. If you go with one that's been around for 5 or 10 years in Beijing it should be okay.
Oh, and make sure you play nice with colleagues, and network at conferences and training events that you go to. Having friends that put in a good work for you at good schools when you leave is huge. If people don't respect you and/or think you're hard to get along with they're not going to advocate for you. I've known people stuck at mid-tier schools, who are good teachers, but miss out on the issue that former colleagues can help or hurt your chances. I've backed people and gave warnings to admins at my schools when they were considering people I've worked with previously.
Good luck.
Eion
Re: Teaching at a public school in China (Beijing)?
Fantastic. Thank you PsyGuy and eion_padraig for your feedback!
IS, I presume stands for international school, but DS stands for...?
Regarding tiers, though Chinese state schools are not International Schools in anyway, some of these state schools that have international departments/qualifications offered have good packages as a first contract when moving to international teaching - ($50K+ USD pa, accommodation, flights, insurance, PD, etc); where would these fit regarding 'tiers'?
Should I be wary of these schools and instead aim for an actual International school with an international student body, or compromise to get the IB/AP experience?
Apologies for the additional questions. Just trying to get my head around how these schools fit.
IS, I presume stands for international school, but DS stands for...?
Regarding tiers, though Chinese state schools are not International Schools in anyway, some of these state schools that have international departments/qualifications offered have good packages as a first contract when moving to international teaching - ($50K+ USD pa, accommodation, flights, insurance, PD, etc); where would these fit regarding 'tiers'?
Should I be wary of these schools and instead aim for an actual International school with an international student body, or compromise to get the IB/AP experience?
Apologies for the additional questions. Just trying to get my head around how these schools fit.
Reply
@spanged
DS = Domestic School
Academies are International Programs (an IS) typically inside a much larger DS.
Third tier, tier status is regionally restricted, they are only valid to compare ISs within the same region location. While comp is one category of factors, (and some contributors argue its the only one that matters) higher tier ISs still offer better comp than what you cited.
Aiming and obtaining are to different things, you could aim for a better higher tier IS, and not get any. You should really apply to everything you can (within your requirements) so that you can maximize your options and then make choices.
AP experience is worth less than IB experience, I wouldnt advise compromising as much for an AP appointment at a third tier IS, OB experience is worth more risk (in very broad general terms).
DS = Domestic School
Academies are International Programs (an IS) typically inside a much larger DS.
Third tier, tier status is regionally restricted, they are only valid to compare ISs within the same region location. While comp is one category of factors, (and some contributors argue its the only one that matters) higher tier ISs still offer better comp than what you cited.
Aiming and obtaining are to different things, you could aim for a better higher tier IS, and not get any. You should really apply to everything you can (within your requirements) so that you can maximize your options and then make choices.
AP experience is worth less than IB experience, I wouldnt advise compromising as much for an AP appointment at a third tier IS, OB experience is worth more risk (in very broad general terms).
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Teaching at a public school in China (Beijing)?
I wouldn't be overly wary of the schools with Chinese nationals. A well-run school that works with Chinese students can be a lot better than a poorly-run place that has foreign students. But the two types of places will feel very different with major differences in classroom dynamics. Also the norms for administration will likely to be very different.
I think getting AP/IB experience (IB is a wider spread curriculum in international schools these days) at a decent Chinese school is preferable to going to a school where you don't get AP/IB teaching experience at an international school myself. But there are lots of routes to success.
The hard part of job searches is you don't often have too many on the table at a time. Now, you're more likely to have multiple offers if you go to a job fair, but that's no guarantee.
spanged wrote:
> ($50K+ USD pa, accommodation, flights, insurance, PD, etc)
That looks to be pretty good for a starting job with minimal experience. It depends on what your local taxes are, but that seems decent to me. To give you an idea at my school, you'd get about mid USD$50,000 take home with your experience (more with a MA).
Good luck.
Eion
I think getting AP/IB experience (IB is a wider spread curriculum in international schools these days) at a decent Chinese school is preferable to going to a school where you don't get AP/IB teaching experience at an international school myself. But there are lots of routes to success.
The hard part of job searches is you don't often have too many on the table at a time. Now, you're more likely to have multiple offers if you go to a job fair, but that's no guarantee.
spanged wrote:
> ($50K+ USD pa, accommodation, flights, insurance, PD, etc)
That looks to be pretty good for a starting job with minimal experience. It depends on what your local taxes are, but that seems decent to me. To give you an idea at my school, you'd get about mid USD$50,000 take home with your experience (more with a MA).
Good luck.
Eion
Re: Teaching at a public school in China (Beijing)?
Fantastic. Thank you PsyGuy and eion_padraig for the thoughts. Good to have some clarification on the sector. :)