My wife and I seem to be in uncharted territory. We are currently both teaching overseas but have agreed to separate. This is not a sudden decision, it's been years in the making and we agree it is final. We want to move to the same geographic area (either same school or nearby schools in one city) so we may share custody of our two children. We want schools to see that they would still be getting two veteran int'l teachers with two dependents, but need to live separately. We fear that schools might just see us as a hot mess that's not worth the risk even though they would probably be getting two teachers that would stay awhile just because relocating is so much more difficult when two separate households are involved.
Any advice on how to navigate this?
Getting divorced, but staying abroad
Response
Well ISs will see you as a hot mess thats not worth the risk. What would you expect them to do pay for 2 3LDK flats/apartments? Have them deal with your divorce drama? The only way it works is either:
1) You two maximize your marketability as a teaching couple presenting to be the happy couple and then on your own coin you split the cost of a bachelor/bachelorette place, the kids stay where they are in the 'home' housing and the two of your rotate/cycle through the 'home' location on whatever schedule you can manage.
2) You just get divorced (separated isnt a 'thing' in IE) and you approach it as 2 singles with one dependent each, and one of your kids hates you because the other will get the tuition waiver/place for the 'better' IS, and you figure out whatever home rotation the two of you can tolerate.
No amount of IT awesomeness balances out two ITs going through relationship drama.
1) You two maximize your marketability as a teaching couple presenting to be the happy couple and then on your own coin you split the cost of a bachelor/bachelorette place, the kids stay where they are in the 'home' housing and the two of your rotate/cycle through the 'home' location on whatever schedule you can manage.
2) You just get divorced (separated isnt a 'thing' in IE) and you approach it as 2 singles with one dependent each, and one of your kids hates you because the other will get the tuition waiver/place for the 'better' IS, and you figure out whatever home rotation the two of you can tolerate.
No amount of IT awesomeness balances out two ITs going through relationship drama.
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wrldtrvlr123
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Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
Well, unfortunately you are adding a hot mess element to a recruitment process that can already be delicate, awkward. stressful and difficult (for schools and job seekers). I agree that I can't really think of any way to spin the situation that isn't going to give most recruiters pause (maybe someone else will have a better imagination).
Barring that, your options seem to be presenting yourselves separately to separate schools (with the children divided between you somehow 1:1, 2:0, 0:2), or as suggested, present yourself as a teaching couple with two dependents to the same school. Not the best (compared to teaching couple with no dependents, single teacher with no dependents), but certainly a very typical case that most schools will see as the cost of doing business. Once established you can work out the housing situation privately. Yes, you would be paying out of pocket for one housing situation but if you agreed to balance it out between your salaries/packages it wouldn't be too bad in many locations). Or, one person could look to move to a different school where they could potentially pick up housing benefits (not a certainty because schools vary wildly on their policies).
It is also possible to be hired at two different schools in the same city (we have done it) which would solve the housing situation but in your case one person would be marketing themselves as a single teacher with two dependents or you would both be marketing yourselves as single teachers with one dependent (either way presents potential personal and/or professional drawbacks).
Sorry to not have better/more useful input (and sorry that you are going through a situation that is difficult in the best of times, and even more complicated in our career path/lifestyle).
Barring that, your options seem to be presenting yourselves separately to separate schools (with the children divided between you somehow 1:1, 2:0, 0:2), or as suggested, present yourself as a teaching couple with two dependents to the same school. Not the best (compared to teaching couple with no dependents, single teacher with no dependents), but certainly a very typical case that most schools will see as the cost of doing business. Once established you can work out the housing situation privately. Yes, you would be paying out of pocket for one housing situation but if you agreed to balance it out between your salaries/packages it wouldn't be too bad in many locations). Or, one person could look to move to a different school where they could potentially pick up housing benefits (not a certainty because schools vary wildly on their policies).
It is also possible to be hired at two different schools in the same city (we have done it) which would solve the housing situation but in your case one person would be marketing themselves as a single teacher with two dependents or you would both be marketing yourselves as single teachers with one dependent (either way presents potential personal and/or professional drawbacks).
Sorry to not have better/more useful input (and sorry that you are going through a situation that is difficult in the best of times, and even more complicated in our career path/lifestyle).
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wrldtrvlr123
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Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
You might also want to run the scenario by your current admin and see what they say (depending on your relationship with them and whether or not they know you will be looking/leaving).
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Heliotrope
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Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
I would also recommend 'presenting to be the happy couple', and try to get hired that way.
And if you don't want to continue being married (and pretending to be together) for too long (you might want to start dating for example), perhaps, once hired, have a fake break-up after your first year (or after contract renewal) and divorce properly, and have your contracts altered to receive two singles housing stipends (assuming schools will want do this).
Not sure if schools would prefer to hire 2 single teachers with 1 dependent each, or a teaching couple with 2 dependents though.
I know both schools that like to hire teaching couples (getting two teachers at once), or prefer two singles (since they don't have to hire the less desirable teacher in the couple along with the one they really want).
Other may have an opinion about that.
And if you don't want to continue being married (and pretending to be together) for too long (you might want to start dating for example), perhaps, once hired, have a fake break-up after your first year (or after contract renewal) and divorce properly, and have your contracts altered to receive two singles housing stipends (assuming schools will want do this).
Not sure if schools would prefer to hire 2 single teachers with 1 dependent each, or a teaching couple with 2 dependents though.
I know both schools that like to hire teaching couples (getting two teachers at once), or prefer two singles (since they don't have to hire the less desirable teacher in the couple along with the one they really want).
Other may have an opinion about that.
Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
I wish I had better news, but the other posters are correct. This is really challenging and you have to ask why a recruiter would take the chance. And how it would even work. And even if you're the model of civility today, what are the long-term implications? One of you likes the school, one of you hates it and wants to leave? One of you starts a relationship with someone suitable or unsuitable? In terms of contract, schools don't create special one-off contracts to cover complex situations, so you'd each have a separate contract with your own benefits - each with housing and flight allowance for one child (so not enough room in either apartment for both children), or one of you with all the housing and flights, and the other with a singleton's contract. Someone has to be the legal sponsor for the children's visas, potentially giving them lots of legal rights and leaving the other high and dry.
The legal custody ramifications from your home country are also very real. Moving children to another country usually requires the consent of both parents, even if only one has custody, which isn't really a problem for you in the first instance. But once you're abroad, your home courts have much less say, and the custodial parent would effectively have carte blanche in deciding when and where to move.
If you're already overseas, try staying where you are. Your current school is far more likely to agree to keep you on than any new school will be to take you on.
Despite how wonderful and lovely you guys might be, from a stranger's perspective, you're not bringing any special benefit to the school (beyond what any teacher brings), but you would be bringing lots of risk and challenge. Why would a school take the risk?
The legal custody ramifications from your home country are also very real. Moving children to another country usually requires the consent of both parents, even if only one has custody, which isn't really a problem for you in the first instance. But once you're abroad, your home courts have much less say, and the custodial parent would effectively have carte blanche in deciding when and where to move.
If you're already overseas, try staying where you are. Your current school is far more likely to agree to keep you on than any new school will be to take you on.
Despite how wonderful and lovely you guys might be, from a stranger's perspective, you're not bringing any special benefit to the school (beyond what any teacher brings), but you would be bringing lots of risk and challenge. Why would a school take the risk?
Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
First of all, sorry to hear this - and knowing couples who have gone through this I can't begin to imagine how much more difficult this is living abroad.
I would support what the last post said - have you spoken to your current school about this? They know you, you'd be saving them the cost of recruitment, and they are presumably already footing the cost for your kids. If they agree, I'd have thought that (at least at first) it would make sense for you both to stay there, at least for next year. However, even if you can guarantee complete civility all the time, at some point you are going to have to address the elephant in the room - what happens when one or other of you starts dating, or wants to move on? Might you both be better going back to your home country for a while until things settle down in your lives before moving abroad again?
I would support what the last post said - have you spoken to your current school about this? They know you, you'd be saving them the cost of recruitment, and they are presumably already footing the cost for your kids. If they agree, I'd have thought that (at least at first) it would make sense for you both to stay there, at least for next year. However, even if you can guarantee complete civility all the time, at some point you are going to have to address the elephant in the room - what happens when one or other of you starts dating, or wants to move on? Might you both be better going back to your home country for a while until things settle down in your lives before moving abroad again?
Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
PsyGuy's number one option/Heliotrope's post is the way to go.
Go as a married couple, break up in the first year and prove yourselves to your school(s). By year two, you'll be settled and able to work through it all.
Who wants to deal with this on their plate before you even arrive? Go as the happy couple/family and work your way from there.
If you're IB Physics/Math HL/HS Counselor...you might be able to ignore the above. If you're something like social sciences/elementary then forget about it and go with the combined approach option.
Go as a married couple, break up in the first year and prove yourselves to your school(s). By year two, you'll be settled and able to work through it all.
Who wants to deal with this on their plate before you even arrive? Go as the happy couple/family and work your way from there.
If you're IB Physics/Math HL/HS Counselor...you might be able to ignore the above. If you're something like social sciences/elementary then forget about it and go with the combined approach option.
Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
I do wonder about the details of presenting as happily married, with the plan to get hired and delay the divorce until settled in the school.
I'm not much of a person for this sort of obfuscation in general, and in this case, well.... It would mean involving the children, and that scares me.
You'd have to play "happy couple" during recruitment and first weeks/months at school. Holding hands, doing things together, smiling a lot. Either the children would have to know it's a sham (what would that teach them), or they would be equally as in the dark as everyone else, and bowled over when the hammer eventually fell. The emotional and psychological toll on them would potentially be considerable.
And during that interim period, when you're ostensibly a couple, you can't move forward with your life without serious implications. Can't ask out the person you'd like to date, can't even flirt without the sort of gossip no family should have to endure. If you cross a line, your children would hear about it on the playground. If you play straight as an arrow, your life would be a straitjacket. There are consequences for anyone living in the closet....
I wish you the best of luck with this very difficult situation.
I'm not much of a person for this sort of obfuscation in general, and in this case, well.... It would mean involving the children, and that scares me.
You'd have to play "happy couple" during recruitment and first weeks/months at school. Holding hands, doing things together, smiling a lot. Either the children would have to know it's a sham (what would that teach them), or they would be equally as in the dark as everyone else, and bowled over when the hammer eventually fell. The emotional and psychological toll on them would potentially be considerable.
And during that interim period, when you're ostensibly a couple, you can't move forward with your life without serious implications. Can't ask out the person you'd like to date, can't even flirt without the sort of gossip no family should have to endure. If you cross a line, your children would hear about it on the playground. If you play straight as an arrow, your life would be a straitjacket. There are consequences for anyone living in the closet....
I wish you the best of luck with this very difficult situation.
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wrldtrvlr123
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Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
sid wrote:
> You'd have to play "happy couple" during recruitment and first weeks/months at school.
> Holding hands, doing things together, smiling a lot.
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It's cute that you think all marriages are like that. J/K. Sort of.
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I agree that it's not an ideal situation but other than telling the OP to go back to their home country (where work/life/family, etc. is likely to be less intertwined) and set up a "typical" separated/divorced family arrangement, there don't seem to be a whole lot of attractive/viable options/advice to give.
> You'd have to play "happy couple" during recruitment and first weeks/months at school.
> Holding hands, doing things together, smiling a lot.
================
It's cute that you think all marriages are like that. J/K. Sort of.
9
I agree that it's not an ideal situation but other than telling the OP to go back to their home country (where work/life/family, etc. is likely to be less intertwined) and set up a "typical" separated/divorced family arrangement, there don't seem to be a whole lot of attractive/viable options/advice to give.
Discussion
Concur with @WT123 that first, you think all marriages are like that (maybe for newlyweds), but I have met many the happily married couple that dont even eat together at lunch or sit together at staff meetings. Second, that your doom and gloom scary problem has any better options. Its either fake it as i describe in my first scenario above, or get divorced as described in scenario two above. I suppose there is the third option which is pitch to the recruiter the hot mess the LW is and ask them to accommodate the problem (yes were going to need two residences just like single ITs, but wed like you to think of us as a teaching couple, with no benefits whatsoever, and we promise neither one of us will flip our poo and cause any problems when one of us starts dating, and of course the kids are going to be totally fine, with no problems). I get youre in leadership and you always advise honesty (which is just leadership speak for you have no privacy, and we have a right to know anything and everything because we say so) but what exactly is the viable alternative that has close to the utility and marketability as the LW faking it?
Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
Two viable alternatives.
One, stay where they are.
Two, return “home” and tackle this life transition from a place where work and personal life are not so intertwined. (Extra bonus, family around to support everyone through the tough stuff.)
A wise man taught me the concept “You can have anything you want, but you can’t have everything you want.”
In this case, I don’t see how the family can do the friendly divorce, work in the same school, live overseas and get new jobs. They can probably have one or two from that list, but not all.
Staying in their current school gets them three of four.
Moving home could generate two or three of four.
New viable option: move to separate schools in the same international city, each taking one child, not mentioning the complex situation. It would be tricky to coordinate the job search, but if they found and landed the right combo, ok. Three out of four.
One, stay where they are.
Two, return “home” and tackle this life transition from a place where work and personal life are not so intertwined. (Extra bonus, family around to support everyone through the tough stuff.)
A wise man taught me the concept “You can have anything you want, but you can’t have everything you want.”
In this case, I don’t see how the family can do the friendly divorce, work in the same school, live overseas and get new jobs. They can probably have one or two from that list, but not all.
Staying in their current school gets them three of four.
Moving home could generate two or three of four.
New viable option: move to separate schools in the same international city, each taking one child, not mentioning the complex situation. It would be tricky to coordinate the job search, but if they found and landed the right combo, ok. Three out of four.
Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
It may be convenient for PG to consider my stance as leadership feeling it has the right to know everything. But truly, no.
Telling the truth here would lead to not getting jobs.
Lying would lead to an unhealthy situation for the children. That’s not ok.
And frankly as leadership, I don’t want to know. If we get to be friends over time, tell me everything. But as a leader, I just want to know the basics, enough to support teachers and students and families in being able to do their jobs.
Telling the truth here would lead to not getting jobs.
Lying would lead to an unhealthy situation for the children. That’s not ok.
And frankly as leadership, I don’t want to know. If we get to be friends over time, tell me everything. But as a leader, I just want to know the basics, enough to support teachers and students and families in being able to do their jobs.
Reply
@Sid
Maybe they dont have a home to go home too, maybe staying where they are isnt viable either their ready to move on, or their pending marital fracture will make them PNG. How is IE work less or more intertwined than DE work, its just work. Its the place you go to so you can afford to do the whole living thing.
Your "new viable option" is my earlier scenario 2.
Dont you always advocate for honesty? Sounds like your position (and Im using intuition here) is that the lying is less okay than being unemployable in IE?
Maybe they dont have a home to go home too, maybe staying where they are isnt viable either their ready to move on, or their pending marital fracture will make them PNG. How is IE work less or more intertwined than DE work, its just work. Its the place you go to so you can afford to do the whole living thing.
Your "new viable option" is my earlier scenario 2.
Dont you always advocate for honesty? Sounds like your position (and Im using intuition here) is that the lying is less okay than being unemployable in IE?
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Heliotrope
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Re: Getting divorced, but staying abroad
It would be lying if they straight-up ask you if you're happily married, and they won't.
If you're officially still married, you're not lying if you present yourselves as a married couple.
Candidates have no obligation to volunteer information about marital problems, and as long as you're sure it will not interfere with your jobs, I don't think you're really conning the school, as you will be doing what you are hired to do. Schools don't pay you to stay together, they pay you to teach to the best of your abilities.
My only concern would be the children. If it might affect them negatively in any way, don't do it. This goes for any option.
If they're small enough, pretending to be married for the school won't affect them, since there's not much pretending involved: plenty of married couples don't do the 'holding hands'-thing in public. Plenty of married couples don't even socialise on school grounds – they see enough of each other at home. Never make them lie for you though, or lie to them.
Yeah, going to a hub like Bangkok or Singapore and get jobs at separate schools might be an option, although there's always the uncertainty if the other will find a job after one of you has accepted an offer. If one of you lowers their standards a bit it shouldn't be too difficult though. Deciding which one might prove difficult if you're not on good terms though.
Good luck!
If you're officially still married, you're not lying if you present yourselves as a married couple.
Candidates have no obligation to volunteer information about marital problems, and as long as you're sure it will not interfere with your jobs, I don't think you're really conning the school, as you will be doing what you are hired to do. Schools don't pay you to stay together, they pay you to teach to the best of your abilities.
My only concern would be the children. If it might affect them negatively in any way, don't do it. This goes for any option.
If they're small enough, pretending to be married for the school won't affect them, since there's not much pretending involved: plenty of married couples don't do the 'holding hands'-thing in public. Plenty of married couples don't even socialise on school grounds – they see enough of each other at home. Never make them lie for you though, or lie to them.
Yeah, going to a hub like Bangkok or Singapore and get jobs at separate schools might be an option, although there's always the uncertainty if the other will find a job after one of you has accepted an offer. If one of you lowers their standards a bit it shouldn't be too difficult though. Deciding which one might prove difficult if you're not on good terms though.
Good luck!