I am new to this site, Search Associates and all that jazz. Is October "too early" to say yes to offers? I am a single, mid-30s, no dependents. I am in an entry admin role (coordinator) with 10+ but less than 15 years of international /IB experience (6 in the classroom, 7 in leadership). I have a master's degree in educational leadership. My last two schools have been top Tier 1 in two of the most "sought after" Asian countries. Right now, I am being offered a position in a Tier 1 school in Asia. I was looking to try another region but many would say that saying "no" to this school would be a surprising / shocking decision. I guess my questions are these:
- When is the "peak" hiring time for schools in different areas of the globe?
- When is the "peak" hiring time for the majority of schools? November? Early January?
- Do I have a good chance in Europe?
- Has anyone ever said "yes" this early in October, only to find out that the school they were waiting for all this time contacted them "later" in the game (e.g. January)? If so, what did you do?
Any tips, advice, info would be greatly appreciated :)
October - Too early to say "yes"?
Re: October - Too early to say "yes"?
it's a roll of the dice, but if you were already at a top tier school (or whatever) then i am assuming money isn't your motivating factor?
it really comes down to what you are looking for. october is traditionally "early" but who's to say what's early if the job checks all your boxes?
the peak time is december and january, in my opinion. it's more related to the contract and when you need to tell your current boss if you're leaving or not. in europe, this can be as early as october and as late as may!
yes you good chance with that experience in europe.
if you know what you want, then pursue it. i have absolutely had schools come knocking after i had already signed, but not good enough for me to go back on my acceptance.
good luck!
v.
it really comes down to what you are looking for. october is traditionally "early" but who's to say what's early if the job checks all your boxes?
the peak time is december and january, in my opinion. it's more related to the contract and when you need to tell your current boss if you're leaving or not. in europe, this can be as early as october and as late as may!
yes you good chance with that experience in europe.
if you know what you want, then pursue it. i have absolutely had schools come knocking after i had already signed, but not good enough for me to go back on my acceptance.
good luck!
v.
Response
In reply to your inquiry:
1) For western IS that follow a western calendar, recruiting generally starts in October ith the collection of intent notices, recruiting than 'officially' starts the beginning of November, except that early recruiting begins sooner. However, ISs that follow a local non-western calendar can vary.
2) The peak of the recruiting cycle starts in Early January with the commencement of the BKK fair, and ends with the BOS fair, with 'off-peak' recruiting starting around the SF fair. The recruiting cycle typically ended with the 'summer shuffle' fair in Maryland (though the 'summer shuffle' is no longer offered).
3) You have a strong and marketable resume with high utility for the WE. The WE has two cycles, the standard cycle as described above and then due to labor rules allowing ITs to delay finalizing intent another cycle in the Spring. The upper tier ISs tend to follow the standard cycle and the lower tier ISs the later spring cycle.
4) Lots of ITs, this is mid cycle for leadership with the leadership fair coming up in November, and for Early recruiting and super star ITs October is the typical finalizing time before the general recruiting cycle starts.
It happens, some ITs withdraw their acceptance and go with the new IS, Id broadly put that around 15%, the majority buy into the "word is your bond" bunk swallow their regret and stay with the IS they signed with thats about 80%, about 4% withdraw their acceptance and decline the new offer and stay where they are, about 1% accept both offers.
If your accepting at a tier 1 IS its unlikely you can withdraw an acceptance and not have ramifications for it. If your working with SA or another premium agency its very likely that upon withdraw Acme AS will notify your associate and if the new IS Genovia IS is also repped as part of the agency that IS Genovia will find out and could withdraw the new offer leaving you with nothing, and probable that SA or the agency will drop their repping of you as a member. First/Elite tier ISs do not need agencies, they can do high quality recruiting entirely without them, agencies like them on their roster as it gives them credibility and marketability, as such those ISs can effectively do whatever they want with impunity. Playing and gaming the system is generally frowned upon, and if someones got to be made an example of its the first/Elite tier ISs to do so. This is further complicated that in leadership your appointment is likely to be announced on AISH, etc. such that even if you arent repped by a premium agency there is still a moderate likelihood that the ISs will find out.
At this point my position is easy, if you want the WE hold out for the WE, whoever said that saying "no" to this IS would be surprising or shocking is just trying to manipulate you and inflate their own ego. What you want is what you want and its just as important and valuable as some ISs opinion of itself. Lots of upper tier ISs in Asia like to think of themselves as comparable to the WE, but they arent, Asia isnt Europe no matter how much they want to talk about their facilities, resources, comp and students, location matters and much more so than they would like it too, but thats how it is.
1) For western IS that follow a western calendar, recruiting generally starts in October ith the collection of intent notices, recruiting than 'officially' starts the beginning of November, except that early recruiting begins sooner. However, ISs that follow a local non-western calendar can vary.
2) The peak of the recruiting cycle starts in Early January with the commencement of the BKK fair, and ends with the BOS fair, with 'off-peak' recruiting starting around the SF fair. The recruiting cycle typically ended with the 'summer shuffle' fair in Maryland (though the 'summer shuffle' is no longer offered).
3) You have a strong and marketable resume with high utility for the WE. The WE has two cycles, the standard cycle as described above and then due to labor rules allowing ITs to delay finalizing intent another cycle in the Spring. The upper tier ISs tend to follow the standard cycle and the lower tier ISs the later spring cycle.
4) Lots of ITs, this is mid cycle for leadership with the leadership fair coming up in November, and for Early recruiting and super star ITs October is the typical finalizing time before the general recruiting cycle starts.
It happens, some ITs withdraw their acceptance and go with the new IS, Id broadly put that around 15%, the majority buy into the "word is your bond" bunk swallow their regret and stay with the IS they signed with thats about 80%, about 4% withdraw their acceptance and decline the new offer and stay where they are, about 1% accept both offers.
If your accepting at a tier 1 IS its unlikely you can withdraw an acceptance and not have ramifications for it. If your working with SA or another premium agency its very likely that upon withdraw Acme AS will notify your associate and if the new IS Genovia IS is also repped as part of the agency that IS Genovia will find out and could withdraw the new offer leaving you with nothing, and probable that SA or the agency will drop their repping of you as a member. First/Elite tier ISs do not need agencies, they can do high quality recruiting entirely without them, agencies like them on their roster as it gives them credibility and marketability, as such those ISs can effectively do whatever they want with impunity. Playing and gaming the system is generally frowned upon, and if someones got to be made an example of its the first/Elite tier ISs to do so. This is further complicated that in leadership your appointment is likely to be announced on AISH, etc. such that even if you arent repped by a premium agency there is still a moderate likelihood that the ISs will find out.
At this point my position is easy, if you want the WE hold out for the WE, whoever said that saying "no" to this IS would be surprising or shocking is just trying to manipulate you and inflate their own ego. What you want is what you want and its just as important and valuable as some ISs opinion of itself. Lots of upper tier ISs in Asia like to think of themselves as comparable to the WE, but they arent, Asia isnt Europe no matter how much they want to talk about their facilities, resources, comp and students, location matters and much more so than they would like it too, but thats how it is.
Re: October - Too early to say "yes"?
@vandsmith: Thank you for your response. I have been at two Tier 1 schools for the past 10+ years. I want to experience a more "laid back" type of deal without sacrificing the salary too much. That is why I am looking at areas in Europe (not necessarily central but more eastern locations) or other regions in the Middle East (e.g. Oman). I suppose I am interested in the responses of people who have said "yes" to a school that they were 70 % sure about (but not necessarily their first choice), only to find that their top choice contacted them later. I want to know what people did in those situations....
Re: October - Too early to say "yes"?
@Psyguy: I am really thankful for your detailed response. I would never break contract or go back on word (unless the situation endangers my life) and that is why I am going on this forum to do my research. I have a great track record with all my admin and schools and so, I really do not want to throw away 10 + - 15 years of IB experience and hard work because of that. The Tier 1 schools in Asia that I worked for are Tier 1 as you, yourself, mentioned them in previous posts ;) I will think quite hard (but quickly) about this offer.
Just a question: What are your thoughts about taking up a position in a Tier 2 school but pays a lot of money and has a lot of great opportunities for change management? I am also being recruited / offered a leadership position for this school where I know I will have more time to "breathe" and yet, get more money than I ever was offered at the last Tier 1 schools I had. How will this look in the eyes of admin that will hire me in the future? To see me in Tier 1 schools for most of the time and then to go to a Tier 2, smaller, somewhat "unknown" (but has potential) school? Have you personally ever done that in your career?
Just a question: What are your thoughts about taking up a position in a Tier 2 school but pays a lot of money and has a lot of great opportunities for change management? I am also being recruited / offered a leadership position for this school where I know I will have more time to "breathe" and yet, get more money than I ever was offered at the last Tier 1 schools I had. How will this look in the eyes of admin that will hire me in the future? To see me in Tier 1 schools for most of the time and then to go to a Tier 2, smaller, somewhat "unknown" (but has potential) school? Have you personally ever done that in your career?
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: October - Too early to say "yes"?
OF - go for the tier 2. It is 'going backwards' but 'moving forwards' in that you are taking on a new role and playing a larger part in the school. Success there springboards you for moving back to a tier 1 in a few years for more money and at the same, or higher level.
It's a win-win situation for you :-)
It's a win-win situation for you :-)
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secondplace
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:40 pm
Re: October - Too early to say "yes"?
In this scenario:
- Has anyone ever said "yes" this early in October, only to find out that the school they were waiting for all this time contacted them "later" in the game (e.g. January)? If so, what did you do?
What you should do is honour your commitment. There's no question to be asked or answered. Flip it the other way - what would you expect the school to do?
- Has anyone ever said "yes" this early in October, only to find out that the school they were waiting for all this time contacted them "later" in the game (e.g. January)? If so, what did you do?
What you should do is honour your commitment. There's no question to be asked or answered. Flip it the other way - what would you expect the school to do?
Re: October - Too early to say "yes"?
shadowjack wrote:
> OF - go for the tier 2. It is 'going backwards' but 'moving forwards' in
> that you are taking on a new role and playing a larger part in the school.
> Success there springboards you for moving back to a tier 1 in a few years
> for more money and at the same, or higher level.
>
> It's a win-win situation for you :-)
Hello Shadowjack: I agree with you. I tend to do this in my career. Go into a "small pond" and contribute what I learned from the big pond. Then go back into the "big pond" with the title and then work my butt off. Then, I go back to the "small pond" and contribute what I learned from the previous "big ponds" and the cycle continues. This would be my 2nd "small pond" if I were to go and pick the Tier 2.
> OF - go for the tier 2. It is 'going backwards' but 'moving forwards' in
> that you are taking on a new role and playing a larger part in the school.
> Success there springboards you for moving back to a tier 1 in a few years
> for more money and at the same, or higher level.
>
> It's a win-win situation for you :-)
Hello Shadowjack: I agree with you. I tend to do this in my career. Go into a "small pond" and contribute what I learned from the big pond. Then go back into the "big pond" with the title and then work my butt off. Then, I go back to the "small pond" and contribute what I learned from the previous "big ponds" and the cycle continues. This would be my 2nd "small pond" if I were to go and pick the Tier 2.
Re: October - Too early to say "yes"?
secondplace wrote:
> In this scenario:
>
> - Has anyone ever said "yes" this early in October, only to find
> out that the school they were waiting for all this time contacted them
> "later" in the game (e.g. January)? If so, what did you do?
>
> What you should do is honour your commitment. There's no question to be
> asked or answered. Flip it the other way - what would you expect the school
> to do?
Yes, so judging from the info, advice and tips of others : Wait patiently for around December - January (peak) unless of course, a school that ticks all the checkboxes in my personal checkbox of "great opportunity" pops up earlier.
> In this scenario:
>
> - Has anyone ever said "yes" this early in October, only to find
> out that the school they were waiting for all this time contacted them
> "later" in the game (e.g. January)? If so, what did you do?
>
> What you should do is honour your commitment. There's no question to be
> asked or answered. Flip it the other way - what would you expect the school
> to do?
Yes, so judging from the info, advice and tips of others : Wait patiently for around December - January (peak) unless of course, a school that ticks all the checkboxes in my personal checkbox of "great opportunity" pops up earlier.
Reply
@OF2018
Its not common, you will have two challenges. First; Elite tier ISs and as an extension first tier ISs are sort of a family the ay the mob is a family. once youre in, your in, and if you leave than whats your angle. Second, you will have to explain the coin as your reason, and that assumes you get an interview and an opportunity to give that explanation. If you left for coin and opportunities are you going to leave again when the next IS offers you more coin or opportunity. None of those are insurmountable, but they are going to be challenges.
Its not common, you will have two challenges. First; Elite tier ISs and as an extension first tier ISs are sort of a family the ay the mob is a family. once youre in, your in, and if you leave than whats your angle. Second, you will have to explain the coin as your reason, and that assumes you get an interview and an opportunity to give that explanation. If you left for coin and opportunities are you going to leave again when the next IS offers you more coin or opportunity. None of those are insurmountable, but they are going to be challenges.
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @OF2018
>
> Its not common, you will have two challenges. First; Elite tier ISs and as
> an extension first tier ISs are sort of a family the ay the mob is a
> family. once youre in, your in, and if you leave than whats your angle.
> Second, you will have to explain the coin as your reason, and that assumes
> you get an interview and an opportunity to give that explanation. If you
> left for coin and opportunities are you going to leave again when the next
> IS offers you more coin or opportunity. None of those are insurmountable,
> but they are going to be challenges.
Thanks for your note, Psyguy. The money is not the driving force in any of the future decisions I will make. My previous profession helped me out a lot and I still hold the license for it. It's a matter of me deciding whether I want to pursue the leadership journey in one type of a school or another type of school. Be a leader in high-stakes / high-work / high-stress / but well-renowned schools in Asia...or....be a leader in easy-going / slower-pace / lower-tier that pays relatively well but NOT in Asia?
> @OF2018
>
> Its not common, you will have two challenges. First; Elite tier ISs and as
> an extension first tier ISs are sort of a family the ay the mob is a
> family. once youre in, your in, and if you leave than whats your angle.
> Second, you will have to explain the coin as your reason, and that assumes
> you get an interview and an opportunity to give that explanation. If you
> left for coin and opportunities are you going to leave again when the next
> IS offers you more coin or opportunity. None of those are insurmountable,
> but they are going to be challenges.
Thanks for your note, Psyguy. The money is not the driving force in any of the future decisions I will make. My previous profession helped me out a lot and I still hold the license for it. It's a matter of me deciding whether I want to pursue the leadership journey in one type of a school or another type of school. Be a leader in high-stakes / high-work / high-stress / but well-renowned schools in Asia...or....be a leader in easy-going / slower-pace / lower-tier that pays relatively well but NOT in Asia?
Comment
@OF2018
Well then as one might say to the goblin king, when recruiting again having forged through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered and having fought your way here to the castle beyond the elite tier IS to take back that which they have taken from you, remember that; your will is as strong as theirs and your kingdom as great... That they have no power over you!
Well then as one might say to the goblin king, when recruiting again having forged through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered and having fought your way here to the castle beyond the elite tier IS to take back that which they have taken from you, remember that; your will is as strong as theirs and your kingdom as great... That they have no power over you!
Re: Comment
PsyGuy wrote:
> @OF2018
>
> Well then as one might say to the goblin king, when recruiting again having
> forged through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered and having fought
> your way here to the castle beyond the elite tier IS to take back that
> which they have taken from you, remember that; your will is as strong as
> theirs and your kingdom as great... That they have no power over you!
Best movie evvaarrrrrr! Thank you, Psyguy :) I will hold onto my courage, personal integrity, my qualifications/credentials/ experience to help me ride out the tide.
> @OF2018
>
> Well then as one might say to the goblin king, when recruiting again having
> forged through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered and having fought
> your way here to the castle beyond the elite tier IS to take back that
> which they have taken from you, remember that; your will is as strong as
> theirs and your kingdom as great... That they have no power over you!
Best movie evvaarrrrrr! Thank you, Psyguy :) I will hold onto my courage, personal integrity, my qualifications/credentials/ experience to help me ride out the tide.
Reply
@OF2018
Not the message I was trying to communicate. It isnt about courage, integrity, etc. Its more if your a superstar IT, and you can do anything, than you can act with impunity, and thus "they have no power over you".
Not the message I was trying to communicate. It isnt about courage, integrity, etc. Its more if your a superstar IT, and you can do anything, than you can act with impunity, and thus "they have no power over you".