Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post Reply
ILMathTeachr
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:38 pm

Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post by ILMathTeachr »

Is it worth it to get trained in IB prior to hitting the IS job market? That is, would it enhance my chances of getting hired by an IS school? Or would it be meaningless if I have extensive teaching experience (but not in IB classes)? All thoughts appreciated!
cms989
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post by cms989 »

I would recommend against it:

-It's $600
-It's only 16 hours so you have plenty of time to do it if you actually get hired by a school, and a school should know this
-It's definitely not worth the cost
-It's not useful without context, e.g. in cat 1 you make a sample unit plan. Much more useful if you actually have a class you'll be using it on

That said if you get hired I would definitely recommend it, saved my first year. Even if it is a rip-off
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post by Thames Pirate »

It depends:

Are you targeting IB schools particularly?

Can you spare the cash?

Do you think it would enhance your profile proportionally to the cost?

Are you willing to work at a school where you can easily get IB (Tier 3 type, start up school, "hardship" location)?

If the answers are yes, yes, yes, and no, you should do it. If no, no, no, and yes, don't. If any one of the first three is a no, I would be hesitant, especially if you are willing to get the training elsewhere. If you are only aiming at a small group of schools, it's probably more worthwhile.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

The rule is no amount of training equals any amount of experience. Recruiters arent really looking for IB training, and IB leadership knows that training isnt worth anything. Its mostly for chalk and talk and drill and kill DTs from non western regions as an introduction to western meds/peds/asst. There is nothing youre going to get in the 16-17 hours thats going to add anything to your skill set. You learn some of the core lexicon and vocabulary but otherwise its just group sharing exercises and watching slides. You arent tested on anything, or required to submit or write anything, if you show up and go through the motions your trained. They are pricey, the cheapest ones (typically online) are around USD$600-USD$800. F2F training is usually USD$900-USD$2K and also has travel costs associated with it. The F2F training does give you better access to improve your networking. The rules use to be there was a CAT 1 workshop that was the core workshop for being considered "trained", now thats changed any level or type of workshop that is appropriate to the program (year/age) and role you will be in will meet the requirements for training/PD, however most recruiters and leadership still expect the core workshop. This can get very expensive if your something like a general social studies IT in DIP, as each subject is a separate workshop, compared to PYP where MTPYPH will meet all grade levels and roles in PYP. Without experience and practice no one in IB is going to get excited about having completed a workshop.
At SLL DIP/A*/IGCSE/AP are all very congruent in regards to curriculum, if you can teach your subject in any of them well, than you can teach it well in all of them.

The other side to that argument is the scenario where you have a lower tier IS, with a lot of noob applicants in which case being trained can be that one minor thing that sets you a part, most ITs are very indistinct from one another, and fit more than anything is the deciding factor (thats why we still have interviews), but bottom tier ISs are usually more budget conscious and a new IT they dont have to train is an advantage to them.

From my position, I wouldnt recommend it, the IB ISs worth going to will happily provide and pay for training. The ones that its an issue for will either be impressed with your resume as is, or they wont that an IB workshop isnt going to matter.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post by sid »

Beginning online training is 300USD. Better than 600, just choose the right one.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

Do you have a link for these USD$300 workshops? The online ones Ive seen that are the core CAT 1 workshops are typically USD$600 with an additional USD$70 late registration fee. The big online training cycle coming up on October 3 - October 31 are all USD$600.
ILMathTeachr
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post by ILMathTeachr »

To be 100% clear, I'm late in my public school career and make enough that none of your $$ amounts are daunting. But the prevailing wisdom seems to be it'd be a wasted motion.
I'm curious about getting some clarification by what people mean by tier I, tier 2, and tier 3 schools. Is there a specific criteria or are these geographic designations (i.e. anything in Western Europe is tier 1, regardless of how good or bad it's reputation is)?
vandsmith
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:16 am

Re: Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post by vandsmith »

you could search for the terms and find lots of info on them.
they are simply loose terms that group schools into general categories of quality, there is some disagreement over what they actually entail - i think psyguy will have a post somewhere wherein he/she outlines what they constitute as a T1, T2, etc... there is also a list of supposed T1 schools as well. (search for it). so the really well-known, reputable, stable schools are generally T1. but you might find a school you really like that might be considered "worse" but if it works for you, then it shouldn't really matter. i look at it similar to the ivy league schools, or div. 1 and div. 2 schools in the u.s.

as for the certification - if money is no object and you want to do it, go for it. but likely, you will have to take the introductory PD anyways, if you go to a school that utilizes the IB. experience actually teaching it is more valuable than the cert you have to pay for. you'd be more competitive choosing another PD - maybe spec ed, or whatever certs/PD HS teachers do.

good luck!

v.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@ILMathTeachr

::sigh::

Have you searched the forum? Tiers have been commented on extensively, and there are even a number of topics titled with the subject. Ive provided my treatise on tiers as follows.

We first need to explore the four models of the tier system (which are the parent, owner, admin, and educator). Starting with the easiest is the parent model:

The Parent model, or "Prestige" model is a two tier system that can be described as the "wanted school" (upper tier) and the "waiting school". Parents have a school they want to get into (the wanted school), but for various reasons (no places, not enough pull, wrong organization sponsor, etc) can not get a place, so they then move to their next school down the continuum, until they secure a place for their child/children, this school is the "waiting school", they are waiting until the scenario changes and they either get their top wanted school or they move up the chain to a better school. This system is almost entirely based on the reputation/recognition/popularity/affiliation of the school. Westerners are going to aim for the appropriate embassy school, and then having to invest more and more research will identify additional schools as the need arises.

The Ownership, or "Point" model is based on determining standing and tier level based on a single "point" criterion, usually either compensation (they can buy their way into upper tiers, if they pay enough) or curriculum (were tier 1 is we have IB, etc). This allows school ownership to focus their resources on bettering a single criterion, allowing them to maximize their potential to whatever point they can afford. A lot of the "upper tier" schools in the ME employ this metric. This is often a result of ownership understanding business more than they understand education, but frustrated educators of all types when faced with numerous descriptors, many of which are simply unknown, can and do resort to this tier ranking metric to reduce frustration.

The Admin model or "Divisional" model (Ive also had is described at the Equality Continuum and Linear Equality models) divides the continuum of schools into equal divisions along a continuum. Rank order all the schools and institutions and if you want 3 tiers divide them into the bottom third, the middle third, and the upper third (if you want 4 tiers divide into quarters, and so on). There are two issues with this model. First, what admins love is that because the lower tier schools are so numerous, that any respectable "REAL" IS gets pushed into the first tier. Second, it artificially skews the top and the bottom, while compressing the middle.

The Educator, or "Curve" model (because it approximates the normal curve). takes those same schools on a normal curve and putts the upper 1stSD, lower 2ndSD and lower 3rdSD (Standard deviation, under the curve int his case) and classifies those as the 3rd tier, thats a lot of schools. It then places the upper 80-85 percentile too 95-98 percentile in the 2nd tier. With the remaining upper 5-2 percentile as the 1st tier (the elite school/s are a sup population of the first tier, and is just at or under the 100th percentile). What this means is that schools must truly demonstrate exceptional characteristics befitting the title of "International School", not simply a local, or municipal schools that are characterized as average or slightingly better than average compared to the surrounding market.

Admins hate this model, or as they call it the "depressing, why bother trying model", because the elite schools like palaces of kingdoms of old are very well established and unless your in a region (such as Japan) you often dont have room for more than one palace, and its not likely going anywhere. Meaning that a school and ownership has to do a massive amount of work, and expend tremendous resources to compete with other ISs to get into that very small percentage (top 5% at best) to be considered 1st tier, because the range doesnt change, you have to beat another school out such that their ranking falls so your schools ranking can gain. This leaves the practical outcome that most new schools or re branded schools will expend considerable effort and resources just to get into tier 2, and thats how it should be, because competition is good for the market and the consumer. This isnt some warm fuzzy, and cuddly everyone can get an "A", no this is more like medical school or low school where no matter what you do or how well you do it, there is a forced ordinal ranking from bottom to top. An admin can think their performing at the 90 percentile but if everyone else is at 92% or higher, your still in the bottom, and the bottom is the third tier.
True International Schools are not just private/independent schools with "international" in their name. We as a profession can, should and must set our expectations and criteria much higher. Getting into the "International School" group should be more than just a foreign school that pays its salary on time. We should be considering ISs to be the top 20%-15% and dump the rest in the third tier where they belong. There is NOTHING wrong with being a second tier school, and I reject the admin/ownership mantra that its either 1st tier or nothing.
ISs should be like the Olympics, gold, silver, and bronze medals aside, to call yourself an "International School" is the same as being able to call yourself an "Olympic Athlete" in so much as it is a tremendous achievement and accomplishment just to get in to the arena.

There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. The greatest consensus is found in the middle of the tiers, and the least in the margins, but there would still be a lot of disagreement. As a community we tend to agree achieve consensus on the top and the bottom of the tiers. Our biggest disagreement is the margins in-between and the middle. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...

There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, There are several models generally applied to dividing of the tiers, the teacher model is:
Elite Tier: Top schools in the first tier usually 1-2 schools.
1st Tier: The top 5%
2nd Tier: 75%-95%
3rd Tier: Bottom 75%
Upper tier is typically the elite, first tier and some portion of the second tier. Lower tier is the third tier and some portion of the second tier.
In general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to

1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.

Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.

COMPENSATION:

Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:

1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).

WORK ENVIRONMENT:

Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):

1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?

2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?

3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?

4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?

5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?

6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....

JOB SEARCH:

1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.

2nd tier schools are private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.

3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make/generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.

Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS). They are what you might think of in the US as Charter schools.

Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...

Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border that tier 3 schools start.
Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).

"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.
An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.

Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.

I guess thats 4 levels. Is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.
McQwaid
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:46 pm

Re: Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post by McQwaid »

I wanted to break into IB. So I took an online cat 1 course. After getting hired in an IB hardship post my school head specifically told me that taking and having that certificate was the key reason I was hired over another candidate . That certificate was the only think that sperated me from an equally qualified candidate. Just my 2 cents.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Getting an IBO certificate before searching?

Post by sid »

From https://www.ibo.org/professional-develo ... online-pd/:

How much does an online workshop cost?
Regular workshops (Categories 1,2 and 3): USD 600
Leadership workshops: USD 700
Introductory workshops: USD 300
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Sid

Great, now provide an actual citation for an introductory $300 workshop available online and that an independent candidate can register for? There are none, the $300 Intro workshops are the ones new IB ISs/DSs provide enmass and on site as orientation PD, they are delivered F2F. It's not an option suitable or available to the LWs scenario. They nor anyone else can go to the IB PD site and register for one.
Post Reply