How marketable are we?

Kaybe
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:31 am

How marketable are we?

Post by Kaybe »

My husband and I are experienced, certified US teachers, looking to make the move to IT. I am trying to get a sense of how attractive we might be to recruiters, so I know what schools/ regions we realistically could aim for. Also, any advice you could give on improving our marketability would be great.

We are both fully state certified, with about 10 years each of US middle grades public school experience and glowing references. We are married with one six-month-old, and we may decide to have one more baby in the next couple of years.

One of us has a bachelor's in English, with certification in 6-12 English, ESOL, and media specialist (no experience as media specialist though), and a CELTA. The other has a bachelor's in history and a master's in sociology, with certification in 6-12 social science. Neither of us has any IB or AP experience or training. We're willing to attend these trainings, but they just haven't been offered or called for in our careers so far.

We have no debt, so although saving money would be great, it's not our top priority. We want a good quality of life and safety, and enjoy spending time in nature (hiking, kayaking, etc). I think we'd both be quite happy at a good tier 2 school if we had supportive admin and time for work/life balance. We're willing to consider out of the way locations, especially if there's a good outdoor life and we get flights home.

We'd also consider one of us being a part time/ substitute/ trailing spouse for a year or two.

I don't want to sell us short in the job search, but I don't want to be unrealistic about our prospects, either. Would appreciate any advice/ thoughts from those in the know. Thanks!
wrldtrvlr123
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Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

You certainly seem like solid candidates. The only potential limiting factors are that English and SS are relatively common areas of certification and high school experience is generally considered more desirable than MS.

That being said, many most schools hire teachers for those subjects and grade levels every year/every other year, so there should be a fair amount of openings for both of you. And many schools would be open to hiring you to teach HS level classes as well.

I wouldn't limit your applications. It costs nothing but time and energy to apply to a school and you never know when you will be in the right place at the right time. In the meantime, look into adding an AP qualification or two, just to demonstrate your interest and increase your knowledge if nothing else.
Thames Pirate
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by Thames Pirate »

If the social studies partner can add economics (the most sought after of the humanities) and preferably one of you at least does some IB stuff (the online classes are expensive, but you can get your school to pay for PD for IB MYP, for example, or you just bite the bullet and get it done--you can do IB Econ certification online, for example), you will be even more marketable. Do either of you have leadership (head of department, anything with the word "coordinator" in it) or extracurricular experience? If you can run an exchange program, a MUN style program, service club, or sports team, those would also help.

Even as you are, you are reasonably marketable in a lot of places. I don't see why you should limit yourselves. You might not get the very top schools, but you can get something pretty good and you might get lucky at really good schools. Don't limit your region at all. Your biggest limiting factors are going to be a) somewhat competitive and mildly overlapping subjects, b) lack of IB or AP or even high school, c) moving overseas with a very young child and possibly more on the way. So find a way to mitigate or downplay those as much as possible.

Be careful about the trailing spouse thing--make sure you know they really will hire the spouse or that you really can afford the truly trailing. Some schools promise that and then don't deliver, preferring to hold the spouse "in reserve" to cover that pregnant teacher that leaves in mid-September. In some places that's fine--there are other schools or employment options. In others that person is permanently trailing.

Let us know how else we can help, and best of luck!
Doctor
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Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:28 am

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by Doctor »

Regarding the trailing spouse and dependents, what can you tell the school to allay their fears that they will become bored and leave? Would it be wise to agree to pay for their airfare and visa costs or are IS not too concerned about relocation costs?

I saw a statistic that teachers with trailing spouse and dependents have an expectation value of getting hired about 0.2.
Thames Pirate
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by Thames Pirate »

But it isn't really a trailing spouse--with only one job the other person would likely be at least subbing, volunteering, etc. But a way to mitigate the school's concerns (and your own for that matter) is to ask how the school integrates partners and families. Are there school events such as fairs, parties, or barbecues at which families are welcome? Are there opportunities within the community--either local or on the compound or what have you--for family members who do not speak the language to find friends and a sense of purpose? If you are asking these questions, you are already setting both your spouse and your school up for a positive experience. Smart schools recognise the need to keep spouses happy because a happy spouse is more stable, and the teacher will pick the spouse over the school (hopefully) every time if things aren't going well.
senator
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:53 am

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by senator »

My standard answer is that you NEVER know how marketable you are at any given time.

One year you may be overwhelmed with interview requests while another time you get none.

Every year many teachers with almost to zero relevant experience get hired at top schools while others who have all the credentials and experience get zero interviews, let alone offers. There is no rhyme or reason to it. Even admin, if pressed, could not explain EXACTLY what they want at any given time.

Nobody on this forum can gauge your level of marketability.

You just have to be a grownup and be willing to experience rejection or joy. Just jump in and do it. No guts no glory.
Lmartin106
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:04 pm

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by Lmartin106 »

You never know until you try. When I first started this adventure I wasn’t sure of my marketability with a trailing spouse, 2 dependents and no international experience. After sending 40 resumes and 4 interviews I ended up with 3 offers. No job fair was needed. I’ll be at a top school in a county that I never anticipated but am thrilled about. My advice is to jump in feet first. Make a short list of non negotiable requirements. For me it was low pollution, politically stable, access to good healthcare. Apply to any and all countries that fit the bill and see where the path leads. Good luck!
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Youre marketable at the tier you are pursuing (tier 2), and your flexible. The three challenges you have are:

1) Youre only middle school DTs, to really be competitive youre going to need to demonstrate your ability and proficiency at teaching higher grade/year levels. In IE a lot of primary goes to year 6, and lower secondary is 7-9 and upper secondary is 10-12. Youve taught at most two grades/years of the lowest in secondary. Why would an IS hire you to teach upper secondary and importantly SLL courses. Sure there are ISs that will take that risk, but those arent going to be second tier ISs which often have options.

2) Youre almost competing with one another. Its not uncommon for lower secondary vacancies to be combination vacancies, usually literature/humanities and maths/science. It wouldnt be difficult for either of you to add the others teaching area, but then in those cases your competing against each other.

3) You have a very young child, and are considering another. At these ages recruiters are going to have the question in their head "whose taking care of the baby if both of you are working", thats a real complication to consider.

If one of you pursues staying at home or only PT work, that changes the logistics of your utility. Now your 1 IT with a trailing spouse and a dependent and if your adding another child thats two dependent and a trailing spouse to fill a middle school humanities or literature classroom.

My suggestion is to decide on a pathway, either each of you grow into upper secondary in your respective fields and potentially specialize (such as Economics, though history is the most common subject in the group) OR you differentiate yourselves. Your spouse adds literature to the social studies to fill lower secondary combination vacancies and you purse the ESOL or Librarian pathway.

@Doctor

The easiest way is to just off comment that the trailing spouse has their own consulting or freelance work they do that keeps them busy and has nothing to do with the IS. Its strongly NOT advised to negotiate OSH benefits. Quality ISs will follow the benefits package and you dont want to risk as being seen as negotiating your profession away like a used car.
Overhere
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:29 am

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by Overhere »

Every teacher is marketable, its just a matter of whether the conditions at one of the thousands of international schools around the world is suitable for your family. I agree with Senator, if this is a move you are committed to then you just need to make the jump.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@Kaybe

@senator and @Overhere make excellent points, the rule is there is a job for anyone if you will accept anything. Your inquiry however establish 2nd tier as a requirement. There will always be ITs with resumes that have more and less utilities than yours (or anybodies).
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by Thames Pirate »

There are jobs for everyone even at higher tier schools if they are the right fit. I know people who have ended up at Tier 2 schools in WE for their first certified teaching gig and people who have only two years' experience total at a Tier 1 (and moving into leadership after only a few years there). I have also known people with many, many years who can't find decent jobs (Tier 1/2) at all because there simply isn't a good fit.

It is about marketing yourself effectively--finding schools for which you think you are a good fit and convincing the school that this is the case. It is about getting a bit lucky, too.

You have all the right checkboxes to be moderately marketable or even very marketable to many schools. You also have some things that might be completely irrelevant to one school and a disqualifying factor at another (such as lack of IB/AP). The "perfect" candidates at one school might be teaching couple, no kids, X and Y subject areas, lots of IB experience while at another it's a single teacher in subject Z with a background in AP. If the school needs teacher kids to become more international, it might be a bonus, while schools where family are a financial drain might prefer no dependents. Some schools prefer non-teaching spouses who can volunteer at the school. It really depends.

Don't buy into the myth that there is a formula for being marketable. There are factors, sure, but even those vary dramatically from school to school. Focus instead on finding a school that is a good fit for you in terms of location and pay, sure, but more importantly in terms of vision, atmosphere, etc.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames Pirate is wrong, there arent enough Tier 1 and Tier 2 ISs for everyone, if there were there would be a serious lack of ITs at all the lower tiers. There wouldnt be tier 3 ISs because there would be no staff available, they would all be at upper tier ISs. Its nutter talk that theres a top tier IS for everyone.
@Thames Pirate has long advocated that you can compensate for weaknesses with confidence, and that you can just make ISs give you an appointment, its utter bunk.

There are ITs who break the pattern, who are the exception, those that get picked up at upper tier ISs with little experience and relatively lite resumes. Someone also wins the lottery.
Thames Pirate
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Re: How marketable are we?

Post by Thames Pirate »

Honestly, very few of the teachers I know followed the "traditional" IT path that PsyGuy says is a formula. I even know at least four teachers whose first teaching experiences were Tier 1 (at least 2 teachers) and Tier 2 schools in WE. Again, there is no "norm" or "exception." Everyone has their own path and story, and they simply are not formulaic IME.

Sure, experience, especially international experience, helps your resume. But good teaching is good teaching the world over (allowing for cultural differences, of course--but kid-centered is kid-centered), and if you are a dynamic teacher your resume and references will reflect that. Furthermore, even the tiers are subjective. What is a Tier 2 school because it is new or only the second school in a city or because the benefits aren't as good might be a far more pleasant place to work. What might be a Tier 3 because it's for profit and has a lot of host country students might also have a fantastic overseas hire package.

There are nice jobs out there. Apply for them. You might very well be exactly what a school wants.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Discusion

Post by PsyGuy »

@Thames pirate and the never ending friends that always support exactly their POV. I know far, far, far more than 4 ITs who did not just walk their way into a top tier IS because they told a recruiter to give them a contract, because they use best practices. If anything @Thames Piarte said was true, we wouldnt have fairs, or agencies , everyone would be working at tier 1/Elite tier ISs and there would be no third or second tier ISs because everyone would be working at top tier ISs and there would be no one to staff those second and third tier ISs.

There are exceptions, there are ITs who start out in 1st tier ISs, but they are just that exceptions.

Good teaching is not universally good teaching. Good teaching is whatever a particular HOS or leadership wants in their classrooms. It may be drill and kill, it may be PBL or inquiry based, or student centered, it may be whatever gets the highest exam scores, but good teaching is not a universally defined characteristic.

Tiers are not subjective, they exist, @Thames Pirates position is bunk. You can be happy at your third tier IS more so than you would be at a first tier IS, but youre still at a third tier IS, just as an IB student can be happy with their 4, it doesnt make it a 7. All of the factors discussed go into tier ranking, one persons priority doesnt change the status within a tier for an IS. You might prioritize the work life balance at a tier 3 IS over the coin at a tier 2 Is, but its still a tier 3 IS.
Thames Pirate
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Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: How marketable are we?

Post by Thames Pirate »

I base my views on what supports them, not the other way around.

The point is that you should go for what you want. PsyGuy's fallback will still be there.
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