Police check for UAE and criminal record
Police check for UAE and criminal record
Anyone have advice on working in UAE with an criminal record on their ACRO POLICE check. Many thanks
Response
It depends what the offense was and how long ago it was? The UAE requires a good conduct and behavior certificate, and unfortunately the ACRO CRB will include more data than a DBS CRB would. However, depending on the offense and how long ago it was (UAE generally only looks back 5 years), it might not be an issue. If it was relatively minor even if it is recent it may not be an issue.
Assuming it is an issue the options are:
1) Dont go to the UAE.
2) Talk to your IS, seriously one of the few times talking to your IS and being forthcoming would be to your benefit. An IS may have connections and relationships they can work to get an otherwise questionable application approved. They may have options or instructions that will make it easier for you. If they have hired you and youve disclosed, than its just as likely as not that whatever it is wont be a problem.
3) Move, relocate somewhere else in the EU (for now at least) and apply for a CRB from the new region.
4) Fake It, ACRO reports are printed on scripts paper but you could request the document and either alter it by removing the conviction information and replacing it with the standard "No Information Held in the Police National Computer" or have a friend without a record request theirs and then alter the identifying information to match yours. You could also try to duplicate the paper and then print your own version. You can get the paper composition and the weight, but you would need a dye sub printer to replicate the watermarks and a three pass scanner to obtain the image, the rest is photo shop.
Assuming it is an issue the options are:
1) Dont go to the UAE.
2) Talk to your IS, seriously one of the few times talking to your IS and being forthcoming would be to your benefit. An IS may have connections and relationships they can work to get an otherwise questionable application approved. They may have options or instructions that will make it easier for you. If they have hired you and youve disclosed, than its just as likely as not that whatever it is wont be a problem.
3) Move, relocate somewhere else in the EU (for now at least) and apply for a CRB from the new region.
4) Fake It, ACRO reports are printed on scripts paper but you could request the document and either alter it by removing the conviction information and replacing it with the standard "No Information Held in the Police National Computer" or have a friend without a record request theirs and then alter the identifying information to match yours. You could also try to duplicate the paper and then print your own version. You can get the paper composition and the weight, but you would need a dye sub printer to replicate the watermarks and a three pass scanner to obtain the image, the rest is photo shop.
Re: Police check for UAE and criminal record
Many thanks for detailed reply
Re: Police check for UAE and criminal record
Documents like this generally have to be authenticated; if that's the case, faking it would not be a good option.
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chiliverde
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- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:45 am
- Location: Europe
Re: Police check for UAE and criminal record
Surely this last option would be highly illegal?? Would the benefits really outweigh the risks?
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Downunder81
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:24 am
Re: Police check for UAE and criminal record
Surely there are no circumstances where faking a document of this importance would be a good idea, unless you have a burning desire to become intimately familiar with the inside of a Dubai jail cell. Suggest OP disregards PsyGuy's advice on this matter and takes the issue up with the school directly. @PsyGuy, what makes you think that advising someone to provide fake documentation is a good idea?
Discussion
@chiliverde
To begin with highly illegal is a little dramatic. Theres this Edward guy from the US who worked for the DOD and stole a bunch of classified documents, and gave them to journalists, essentially committing treason, which is a capital offense, you can be executed for that. Hes living in the soviet union, does quarter million dollar WEB seminars, is a cyber celebrity and is regarded in not insignificant groups as a hero, and hes fine. So unlawful sure, but no ones being murdered or maimed or harmed here. ACRO reports arent even government documents their just a private organization with a database and a printer.
Moving to the middle, whats really the risk here, the LW submits the altered CRB and if its rejected they dont get a visa. If it gets through no ones ever going to look at it again once its approved.
Lastly, As to the value of the reward, I dont know, if this is a 6 figure appointment for a couple years it easily could be worth trying where the most likely negative (and assuming it is negative) outcome is the visa application is rejected.
@Downunder81
Well if the LW gets away with it, and gets a great appointment with a 6 figure salary that sounds like a scenario where its worth it, all upside no downside. I value coin though, because it lets me buy stuff, maybe getting paid large sums of coin isnt your thing.
One of the options I discussed was also to address the issue with the IS.
I didnt advise anyone of anything, I wrote "the options are:..." because faking it is an option, i dont attach judgements too those options either good or bad, data is neither good or evil it just is.
To begin with highly illegal is a little dramatic. Theres this Edward guy from the US who worked for the DOD and stole a bunch of classified documents, and gave them to journalists, essentially committing treason, which is a capital offense, you can be executed for that. Hes living in the soviet union, does quarter million dollar WEB seminars, is a cyber celebrity and is regarded in not insignificant groups as a hero, and hes fine. So unlawful sure, but no ones being murdered or maimed or harmed here. ACRO reports arent even government documents their just a private organization with a database and a printer.
Moving to the middle, whats really the risk here, the LW submits the altered CRB and if its rejected they dont get a visa. If it gets through no ones ever going to look at it again once its approved.
Lastly, As to the value of the reward, I dont know, if this is a 6 figure appointment for a couple years it easily could be worth trying where the most likely negative (and assuming it is negative) outcome is the visa application is rejected.
@Downunder81
Well if the LW gets away with it, and gets a great appointment with a 6 figure salary that sounds like a scenario where its worth it, all upside no downside. I value coin though, because it lets me buy stuff, maybe getting paid large sums of coin isnt your thing.
One of the options I discussed was also to address the issue with the IS.
I didnt advise anyone of anything, I wrote "the options are:..." because faking it is an option, i dont attach judgements too those options either good or bad, data is neither good or evil it just is.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Discussion
PsyGuy wrote:
> @chiliverde
>
> To begin with highly illegal is a little dramatic. Theres this Edward guy
> from the US who worked for the DOD and stole a bunch of classified
> documents, and gave them to journalists, essentially committing treason,
> which is a capital offense, you can be executed for that. Hes living in the
> soviet union, does quarter million dollar WEB seminars, is a cyber
> celebrity and is regarded in not insignificant groups as a hero, and hes
> fine. So unlawful sure, but no ones being murdered or maimed or harmed
> here. ACRO reports arent even government documents their just a private
> organization with a database and a printer.
> Moving to the middle, whats really the risk here, the LW submits the
> altered CRB and if its rejected they dont get a visa. If it gets through no
> ones ever going to look at it again once its approved.
> Lastly, As to the value of the reward, I dont know, if this is a 6 figure
> appointment for a couple years it easily could be worth trying where the
> most likely negative (and assuming it is negative) outcome is the visa
> application is rejected.
>
> @Downunder81
>
> Well if the LW gets away with it, and gets a great appointment with a 6
> figure salary that sounds like a scenario where its worth it, all upside no
> downside. I value coin though, because it lets me buy stuff, maybe getting
> paid large sums of coin isnt your thing.
> One of the options I discussed was also to address the issue with the IS.
> I didnt advise anyone of anything, I wrote "the options are:..."
> because faking it is an option, i dont attach judgements too those options
> either good or bad, data is neither good or evil it just is.
-----------------
He's not advising them to do anything wrong, just telling them their options. Like if you were unhappy with your boss he would likely tell you your options (e.g. talk to them about it, complain to their boss, go to the union, quit, kill them but make it look like an accident).
It's PG's way of telling people it's OK to do bad things and telling them what those bad things might be, without really having the courage of his convictions to just come out and say so. IMHO.
> @chiliverde
>
> To begin with highly illegal is a little dramatic. Theres this Edward guy
> from the US who worked for the DOD and stole a bunch of classified
> documents, and gave them to journalists, essentially committing treason,
> which is a capital offense, you can be executed for that. Hes living in the
> soviet union, does quarter million dollar WEB seminars, is a cyber
> celebrity and is regarded in not insignificant groups as a hero, and hes
> fine. So unlawful sure, but no ones being murdered or maimed or harmed
> here. ACRO reports arent even government documents their just a private
> organization with a database and a printer.
> Moving to the middle, whats really the risk here, the LW submits the
> altered CRB and if its rejected they dont get a visa. If it gets through no
> ones ever going to look at it again once its approved.
> Lastly, As to the value of the reward, I dont know, if this is a 6 figure
> appointment for a couple years it easily could be worth trying where the
> most likely negative (and assuming it is negative) outcome is the visa
> application is rejected.
>
> @Downunder81
>
> Well if the LW gets away with it, and gets a great appointment with a 6
> figure salary that sounds like a scenario where its worth it, all upside no
> downside. I value coin though, because it lets me buy stuff, maybe getting
> paid large sums of coin isnt your thing.
> One of the options I discussed was also to address the issue with the IS.
> I didnt advise anyone of anything, I wrote "the options are:..."
> because faking it is an option, i dont attach judgements too those options
> either good or bad, data is neither good or evil it just is.
-----------------
He's not advising them to do anything wrong, just telling them their options. Like if you were unhappy with your boss he would likely tell you your options (e.g. talk to them about it, complain to their boss, go to the union, quit, kill them but make it look like an accident).
It's PG's way of telling people it's OK to do bad things and telling them what those bad things might be, without really having the courage of his convictions to just come out and say so. IMHO.
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chiliverde
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:45 am
- Location: Europe
Re: Police check for UAE and criminal record
Your point is that Edward Snowden has not been brought to justice for what he did - I suppose I could see how that is relevant here, if I really tried.
Giving data is fine, I will also chime in with my advice. I personally, would not want to test out ANYTHING illegal while living in a foreign country, much less the UAE. Just, why? Just don't. No amount of money could possibly justify the risk. My opinion.
Giving data is fine, I will also chime in with my advice. I personally, would not want to test out ANYTHING illegal while living in a foreign country, much less the UAE. Just, why? Just don't. No amount of money could possibly justify the risk. My opinion.
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Downunder81
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:24 am
Re: Police check for UAE and criminal record
@PsyGuy "He's living in the soviet union" - did he time travel back to the 1980's to do this? There's clearly more to whatever secrets he stole from the CIA's than meets the eye...
@chiliverde I completely agree. Aside from undermining the entire process of background checking that IS's have developed to protect students, and aside from the massive breach of trust that falsifying documents represents, there is no amount of money that would justify that risk. To suggest it's "all upside no downside" is naive at best, and flat-out stupid at worst.
@chiliverde I completely agree. Aside from undermining the entire process of background checking that IS's have developed to protect students, and aside from the massive breach of trust that falsifying documents represents, there is no amount of money that would justify that risk. To suggest it's "all upside no downside" is naive at best, and flat-out stupid at worst.
Discussion
@WT123
I think I would need to have convictions before looking at the degree of (or absence of) courage in supporting them. There once was a zen master who lived in a small village and observed them celebrating a young boy's new horse as a wonderful gift. "We'll see," the Zen master says. When the boy falls off the horse and breaks a leg, everyone says the horse is a curse. "We'll see," says the master. Then war breaks out, the boy cannot be conscripted because of his injury, and everyone now says the horse was a fortunate gift. "We'll see," the master says.
@chiliverde
My point is that in the continuum of illegality, whatever using an altered CRB isnt at the "highly" on top of the severity list.
Personally thats your choice and there is nothing wrong or right about it, its the conclusion youve come too after your ana1ysis. Your choice doesnt invalidate the other options, youve decided against them but you cant banish them from existence.
Why, because the reward might be great and the risk trivial.
No amount of coin, none at all? Nothing illegal? So you wouldnt take USD$10K to jay walk or liter a little?
@Downunder81
Fine, Russia then, did you really not know what I meant, or were you just being the history/geography police?
I dont see how thats clear that he has more at all, do you have data to support your claim, or is it just your intuition, little hairs on the back of your neck?
The "entire process of background checking" which consists of what a piece of paper from some law enforcement authority? Since when are ISs deserving of trust (have you seen the evaluation side of this website?). There are three ways of being successful in IE: be first, be smarter or cheat.
My assumptions were as stated that the LW wouldnt get caught, which if true, what exactly is the downside?
I think I would need to have convictions before looking at the degree of (or absence of) courage in supporting them. There once was a zen master who lived in a small village and observed them celebrating a young boy's new horse as a wonderful gift. "We'll see," the Zen master says. When the boy falls off the horse and breaks a leg, everyone says the horse is a curse. "We'll see," says the master. Then war breaks out, the boy cannot be conscripted because of his injury, and everyone now says the horse was a fortunate gift. "We'll see," the master says.
@chiliverde
My point is that in the continuum of illegality, whatever using an altered CRB isnt at the "highly" on top of the severity list.
Personally thats your choice and there is nothing wrong or right about it, its the conclusion youve come too after your ana1ysis. Your choice doesnt invalidate the other options, youve decided against them but you cant banish them from existence.
Why, because the reward might be great and the risk trivial.
No amount of coin, none at all? Nothing illegal? So you wouldnt take USD$10K to jay walk or liter a little?
@Downunder81
Fine, Russia then, did you really not know what I meant, or were you just being the history/geography police?
I dont see how thats clear that he has more at all, do you have data to support your claim, or is it just your intuition, little hairs on the back of your neck?
The "entire process of background checking" which consists of what a piece of paper from some law enforcement authority? Since when are ISs deserving of trust (have you seen the evaluation side of this website?). There are three ways of being successful in IE: be first, be smarter or cheat.
My assumptions were as stated that the LW wouldnt get caught, which if true, what exactly is the downside?
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Downunder81
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue May 29, 2018 1:24 am
Re: Police check for UAE and criminal record
@PsyGuy The "more to the secrets" was in relation to the time-tr... never mind. If you don't get it I'm not going to explain it to you.
I'm done with this thread. There's too much talk of Cows, Zen Horses and Continuum's of Illegality ,which I am pretty sure is an imaginary construct. Some things are legal, some things are not. All if that is a distraction from the issue.
Don't fake your background check. It's Illegal, and it's stupid.
I'm done with this thread. There's too much talk of Cows, Zen Horses and Continuum's of Illegality ,which I am pretty sure is an imaginary construct. Some things are legal, some things are not. All if that is a distraction from the issue.
Don't fake your background check. It's Illegal, and it's stupid.
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chiliverde
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:45 am
- Location: Europe
Re: Police check for UAE and criminal record
Ahhh PsyGuy, if you are going to become infamous on this board for demanding others hold each word of their arguments to a high standard of precision and correctness, you have to admit the Soviet Union slip is pretty funny. Got to play by your own rules, my man!
If you want us all to agree to your "It will all be fine as long as you don't get caught" premise...... well, sure.
I just think the bar of risk is so much lower when you are living in a foreign country where your channels are severly diminished (perhaps one ambassador who might help you out of a bind on his off hours?). Would I jaywalk in my hometown? Sure. Would I throw my gum on the ground in Singapore? Probably not.
If you want us all to agree to your "It will all be fine as long as you don't get caught" premise...... well, sure.
I just think the bar of risk is so much lower when you are living in a foreign country where your channels are severly diminished (perhaps one ambassador who might help you out of a bind on his off hours?). Would I jaywalk in my hometown? Sure. Would I throw my gum on the ground in Singapore? Probably not.
Discussion
@chiliverde
Yeah it was, thats why its fine, i had that coming. What makes it more depressing is Im specifically credentialed to teach geography, not just social studies but actually "geography" and its not some esoteric geographical minutia like 'fennoscandia'.
So weve confirmed your a law breaker in practice (that jaywalking) and now were just negotiating price. Isnt everything fine if you dont get caught, trees falling in the woods and all.
Your channels as foreigner though include the very real and easy option of exit pursuit by a bear and executing your exit strategy. Your in the UAE, get on a plane (its not the Kingdom), problem solved. Take the coin you got, give nothing back. When you look at the backpackers in ESOL printing out degrees in Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, etc. how are faking those pieces of paper any more 'wrong' than faking some private companies piece of paper saying your a good or decent person or not. Im not advocating its the good and right and true thing to do, Im presenting an option that on the continuum of the moral quality of ones soul is closer to the jaywalking than the hangman, which given a significant amount of reward could easily be worth it. If the LW is looking at a six figure salary over a 3 year contract (hypothetically) were looking at a quarter million in coin even after modest expenses and costs.
Yeah it was, thats why its fine, i had that coming. What makes it more depressing is Im specifically credentialed to teach geography, not just social studies but actually "geography" and its not some esoteric geographical minutia like 'fennoscandia'.
So weve confirmed your a law breaker in practice (that jaywalking) and now were just negotiating price. Isnt everything fine if you dont get caught, trees falling in the woods and all.
Your channels as foreigner though include the very real and easy option of exit pursuit by a bear and executing your exit strategy. Your in the UAE, get on a plane (its not the Kingdom), problem solved. Take the coin you got, give nothing back. When you look at the backpackers in ESOL printing out degrees in Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Myanmar, etc. how are faking those pieces of paper any more 'wrong' than faking some private companies piece of paper saying your a good or decent person or not. Im not advocating its the good and right and true thing to do, Im presenting an option that on the continuum of the moral quality of ones soul is closer to the jaywalking than the hangman, which given a significant amount of reward could easily be worth it. If the LW is looking at a six figure salary over a 3 year contract (hypothetically) were looking at a quarter million in coin even after modest expenses and costs.